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Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 7:52:14 AM

WyrdRich

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You know, this is just flat gonna be fun to watch.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/02/23/MNGCAO9NS71.DTL

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 8:42:47 AM

Sanity

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What makes it really fun is, I don't think either one of them is electable. And it's a pretty sure bet that one of them is going to be the nominee. Wouldn't Leftists get pissed off if they lost big in 2008? Paper trail and all - no more excuses.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 9:04:32 AM

WyrdRich

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        I think Hillary could win. She’s an incredibly divisive figure, which I don’t think we need a minimum of another 4 years of.
       My vote in the primary (and probably a chunk of my time before) is on the other ballot. Watching the Dems battle it out for the next 14-17 months is strictly recreational. I’m sure there are those on the left just itching to watch the very electable Rudy Giuliani get torn apart by the Fundies over the complete irrelevance of his abortion position.
        But Geffen calling the Clintons easy liars? Gotta love that stuff.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 9:28:33 AM

farglebargle

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I think the system has always been just a show, so gullible people waste their time arguing about "Who is electable", and spending pointless hours in something which is as essentially fixed as professional wrestling.

The person "Elected" is the person the Boss Class wants "Elected". OTB tickets are worth more than your vote.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 2/25/2007 9:29:16 AM >

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 9:45:30 AM

HarryVanWinkle

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I think Hillary can win too. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 9:50:47 AM

Sanity

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The sun never sets on the vast conspiracy, does it fargle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

I think the system has always been just a show, so gullible people waste their time arguing about "Who is electable", and spending pointless hours in something which is as essentially fixed as professional wrestling.

The person "Elected" is the person the Boss Class wants "Elected". OTB tickets are worth more than your vote.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 9:56:31 AM

Sanity

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Hillary can't win. Polls have consistently shown that a near majority would gladly crawl over broken glass to vote against the woman, she's hated so much. After that, whatever voters remain will be up for grabs, and so the odds against her in the general election are practically insurmountable. Besides, she voted for tyhe Iraq war, and continued to support it for a very long time. The Left's rabid base could very well throw her to the wolves over that one issue alone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

I think Hillary can win too. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 10:13:47 AM

WyrdRich

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Her husband won twice, without ever getting a majority of the vote. I won’t be at all surprised to see a 3rd, even a 4th candidate in the race, but it will come down to 2 viable ones. If the Repubs put up Gingrich for example?
It will be interesting to see how the Dems deal with the anti-war bundle. “Lose the War,” isn’t much of a campaign slogan.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 10:22:03 AM

Sanity

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She isn't Bill, though. Even the Clintons' die-hard fanatics in Hollyweird are abandoning Hillary, for someone else who isn't electable. Face it, she's pro-war, she comes across as an extremely unlikable person to a lot of folks... she loses the left AND the right because of those things. She just can't win.

Sure, Bill never won the popular vote, and you can't foresee another Perot or Buchanan, but just the way things seem now , nominating Hillary almost looks like it would be just a pure gift for the Republicans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Her husband won twice, without ever getting a majority of the vote. I won’t be at all surprised to see a 3rd, even a 4th candidate in the race, but it will come down to 2 viable ones. If the Repubs put up Gingrich for example?
It will be interesting to see how the Dems deal with the anti-war bundle. “Lose the War,” isn’t much of a campaign slogan.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 10:36:29 AM

petdave

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i'll be voting Libertarian anyway, but it is a little scary to see how far "either" side is from having a real first-class candidate at this point. The lesser of two evils gets more depressing every go-round. i mean, we got a "C" student with a history of substance abuse last time... how much further down in the barrel can we really dig?

Sure would be an interesting time for Perot to reappear, though, with a big old "I told you so!" on the foreign trade/outsourcing/immigration issues...

...dave

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 10:53:12 AM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Hillary can't win. Polls have consistently shown that a near majority would gladly crawl over broken glass to vote against the woman, she's hated so much. After that, whatever voters remain will be up for grabs, and so the odds against her in the general election are practically insurmountable. Besides, she voted for tyhe Iraq war, and continued to support it for a very long time. The Left's rabid base could very well throw her to the wolves over that one issue alone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle

I think Hillary can win too. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

First off Wyrd ...Great link....Secondly...As a lefty I don't think Hillary is electable...I live in Illinois and really dig Obama but wonder is the country ready for a black Prez? Lastly I really enjoy a nice debate...People who can engage an argument with intellect not always touting party rhetoric...Soooo Sanity and many others elude to the fact that she voted for war...I don't recall... but I believe it was less a handful who voted against the war. No one was privy to the actual knowledge that President Bush had...They trusted and believed like the majority of Americans the case for war that was laid out by the President....To make this part of an argument shows a complete lack of knowledge about our crappy political system...And the climate/mood of the populace after 9/11...

.Couple of examples...Hollyweird style...Dixie Chicks...Tim Robbins...Both opposed the war from the start...They are not being hailed as great Americans...who spoke their minds in the contrast of political and public sentiment! Instead by speaking out against the war (even thought their opinions have now been shown to have not been off-base.) they suffered immeasurably...politicians who aspire to greatness don't have the stones to argue the perceived facts until every rock is unturned and by that time it is too late for everyone involved.

So to criticize someone on the basis whether they voted for war....Shows they didn't have the information required to make an informed decision...And this part really sucks...That after the Prez claimed that they had WMD and planned on using them...How many politicians would actually have the stones in the post 9/11 time frame to actually oppose the invasion.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/25/2007 11:00:24 AM >

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 11:49:07 AM

Sanity

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Hillary has never claimed that she was lied to, she only claims that the war has been mismanaged. Internet bloggers claim that the President lied, but Congressional Democrats who voted for war don't, as a rule. In her previous position as co-President, she knew as much about Iraq and Saddam Hussein as President Bush ever did, and from that knowledge Hillary has given speech after speech about how horrible Saddam was and how important regime change was. She's always been a HUGE Hawk. Even now she's giving speeches about the dangers of Iran and their pursuit of nukes. Delude yourself all day long about what leftist Internet bloggers claim vs. what reality it, I don't care. But Hillary has never claimed to have been misled, because she wasn't.

Frank Church and Jimmy Carter are the ones who destroyed the CIA's ability to gather good intelligence. Google Frank Church / CIA and see what you get. Assuming that Iraq's WMDs didn't go to Syria, Frank Church is what happened to Saddam's WMDs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

First off Wyrd ...Great link....Secondly...As a lefty I don't think Hillary is electable...I live in Illinois and really dig Obama but wonder is the country ready for a black Prez? Lastly I really enjoy a nice debate...People who can engage an argument with intellect not always touting party rhetoric...Soooo Sanity and many others elude to the fact that she voted for war...I don't recall... but I believe it was less a handful who voted against the war. No one was privy to the actual knowledge that President Bush had...They trusted and believed like the majority of Americans the case for war that was laid out by the President....To make this part of an argument shows a complete lack of knowledge about our crappy political system...And the climate/mood of the populace after 9/11...

.Couple of examples...Hollyweird style...Dixie Chicks...Tim Robbins...Both opposed the war from the start...They are not being hailed as great Americans...who spoke their minds in the contrast of political and public sentiment! Instead by speaking out against the war (even thought their opinions have now been shown to have not been off-base.) they suffered immeasurably...politicians who aspire to greatness don't have the stones to argue the perceived facts until every rock is unturned and by that time it is too late for everyone involved.

So to criticize someone on the basis whether they voted for war....Shows they didn't have the information required to make an informed decision...And this part really sucks...That after the Prez claimed that they had WMD and planned on using them...How many politicians would actually have the stones in the post 9/11 time frame to actually oppose the invasion.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 12:21:14 PM

popeye1250

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If I were to vote for either of the "Big Box" partys it'd probably be for Mitt Romney or Tom Tancredo.
I'll probably be voting for Jim Gilchrist in the Constitution party.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 12:47:47 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Hillary has never claimed that she was lied to, she only claims that the war has been mismanaged. Internet bloggers claim that the President lied, but Congressional Democrats who voted for war don't, as a rule. In her previous position as co-President, she knew as much about Iraq and Saddam Hussein as President Bush ever did, and from that knowledge Hillary has given speech after speech about how horrible Saddam was and how important regime change was. She's always been a HUGE Hawk. Even now she's giving speeches about the dangers of Iran and their pursuit of nukes. Delude yourself all day long about what leftist Internet bloggers claim vs. what reality it, I don't care. But Hillary has never claimed to have been misled, because she wasn't.

Frank Church and Jimmy Carter are the ones who destroyed the CIA's ability to gather good intelligence. Google Frank Church / CIA and see what you get. Assuming that Iraq's WMDs didn't go to Syria, Frank Church is what happened to Saddam's WMDs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

First off Wyrd ...Great link....Secondly...As a lefty I don't think Hillary is electable...I live in Illinois and really dig Obama but wonder is the country ready for a black Prez? Lastly I really enjoy a nice debate...People who can engage an argument with intellect not always touting party rhetoric...Soooo Sanity and many others elude to the fact that she voted for war...I don't recall... but I believe it was less a handful who voted against the war. No one was privy to the actual knowledge that President Bush had...They trusted and believed like the majority of Americans the case for war that was laid out by the President....To make this part of an argument shows a complete lack of knowledge about our crappy political system...And the climate/mood of the populace after 9/11...

.Couple of examples...Hollyweird style...Dixie Chicks...Tim Robbins...Both opposed the war from the start...They are not being hailed as great Americans...who spoke their minds in the contrast of political and public sentiment! Instead by speaking out against the war (even thought their opinions have now been shown to have not been off-base.) they suffered immeasurably...politicians who aspire to greatness don't have the stones to argue the perceived facts until every rock is unturned and by that time it is too late for everyone involved.

So to criticize someone on the basis whether they voted for war....Shows they didn't have the information required to make an informed decision...And this part really sucks...That after the Prez claimed that they had WMD and planned on using them...How many politicians would actually have the stones in the post 9/11 time frame to actually oppose the invasion.

No need to continue this conversation further...

I got sidetracked from the original op statement and I apologize....I will say it will be a "hoot" watching the Dems race for the nomination...It's fun to watch them cannibalize each other and then have to symbolically "come together" for the presidential run. Hillary is not electable...I think if I was a Republican I would love to see her get the nomination....Is Obama electable?...Can a black man become president in this upcoming election?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/25/2007 12:48:22 PM >

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 1:13:53 PM

subrob1967

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Never count a Clinton out, but I will say this... If Hildabeast is nominated, look for the largest voter turnout in history.

I personally don't think she will win the nomination, she has too polarizing, nor do I think Obama will win the nomination, he has no experience running any size government, he's black, and has an Islamic name, none of which will fly in the midwest outside of Chicago, Michigan, and Minnesota.

Watch for Hillary and Barak continuing the attack politics, as Edwards slides in to grab the nomination.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 1:16:12 PM

popeye1250

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Yeah, Dems are fun to watch!
Their Convention in Boston was a hoot!
They had a "Free Speech Area" for the far left wackos in their party that was a chain link fence that they were locked into, no bathroom facilities or water! lol
The Dem Mayor of Boston Tom "Mumbles" Menino closed many streets and cost restaurants etc millions!
After being yelled at by so many in his own party he exclaimed; "This Democratic National Convention is like an alcatraz around my neck!" lol
And then John Kerry spoke French!
The only thing missing was a speech by the idiot son of Ted Kennedy, Congressman Patrick, "Patches" Kennedy! (I, myself have taught myself.")
Talk about entertainment value!
I should have had a concession to sell tin foil hats, I would have made a bundle!

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 1:23:03 PM

LotusSong

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Is she supposed to be more lady-like? New flash ,boys- women have been in the background for a long time and we've been taking notes.

It ain't over until it's over.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 1:25:33 PM

Sanity

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Well said. But an ambulance-chasing trial lawyer?

Edwards???

Will the Democrats really be that stupid?

Again???

LOL!!!!

My only hope is that the Republicans don't nominate McCain. I think he's got the same thing against him that Hillary does - he spends so much time in the middle that he's pissed everybody off, and so HE'S not electable either. So, what it it comes down to one unelectable candidate (Hillary) vs. another (McCain).

That would just be a normal year, right?

I think so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Never count a Clinton out, but I will say this... If Hildabeast is nominated, look for the largest voter turnout in history.

I personally don't think she will win the nomination, she has too polarizing, nor do I think Obama will win the nomination, he has no experience running any size government, he's black, and has an Islamic name, none of which will fly in the midwest outside of Chicago, Michigan, and Minnesota.

Watch for Hillary and Barak continuing the attack politics, as Edwards slides in to grab the nomination.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 1:33:45 PM

subrob1967

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An Ambulance chaser who did very well as a VP candidate, the guy's still popular, and I wouldn't count him out.

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RE: Popcorn politics - 2/25/2007 4:20:59 PM

WyrdRich

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The early front-runners for the Dems do have a way of tripping and getting trampled along the way. Gary Hart and Howard Dean come quickly to mind, I’m sure there are others. Edwards is just sort of there right now, he could easily step out if Hillary loses that famous temper of hers with the camera rolling.
Obama’s oratorical skills caught my attention at the ’04 convention, but the lack of experience will be hard for him to overcome. I really expect to see him as the candidate for Veep with whoever.

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