RE: racial play2 (Full Version)

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devotionsweet -> RE: racial play2 (3/31/2005 7:20:57 AM)

So this is something i've never done before, quoted somebody, please forgive me if this doesn't work as i hope it does....


quote]ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

So I've got a question... Why would someone feel guilty for something that they took no part in? Why would someone who wasn't even alive during the time the specific atrocities were going on take responsibility for the actions of others?


i equate this as being the same as feeling empathy for someone inpain, for feeling guilt for something one did as a child, or something that happened years ago. These are things well out of our hands and control, but the sorrow of knowing there was suffering and pain still lingers. i believe it's in our human condition to feel this way, we have a conscience, and actually, i think that it would be sad if this was lost. Sometimes i feel that it's the one elemental thing keeping people from repeating certian mistakes made throughout history.

i'm German and American Indian, a decendent of the Peoria Indian Tribe, so i can have wonderful periods of feeling my people were unjustly treated, matched with the dysfunction of knowing some of my ancestors most likely staughtered millions of innocent people... the ultimate in love hate relationship i suppose.

As for the race play, it's something i'm trying to wrap my head around, i feel since, for all intensive purposes i am a white person, meaning, there isn't this big neon sign with an arrow pointing saying *tribal blood inside* , that it is partly my responsibility to learn and unlearn all that gets inbeded inside. How can i put this.... that it's my job to wade through myself and pick out the misconceptions and educated myself more. i find this especiall true when it comes to reverse racism. It's been explained to me that it is impossible for a person of color to be racist, because of the pure and simple fact of all the intolerence shown twards themselves and their people for decades, on the other hand, i've met people who view intolerence as intolerence no matter color or creed...
Then i think, personal preferences are just that.
. i guess now i'm wondering what everone else thinks?
~j

edited because i'man awful speller and typist...and yes i know their are *still* mistakes




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: racial play2 (3/31/2005 12:43:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: diaperedbaby
I quess I am too laid back.
If they are a good dom, race becomes a secondary issue.

I don't think this makes you too laid back, I think it makes you normal. It should be a secondary issue... The primary issues being the person's character and ability to Dominate you (in my view).
The reason this is being discussed primarily is because the OP has chosen it (race matters/slavery) as the theme from which he'd sub. M




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: racial play2 (3/31/2005 12:45:45 PM)

Very Nice Post above Devotion...
Welcome to Collarme and the boards.

On the reverse Racism matter, here's my take:
It's very difficult for someone to be racist to others when for the most part the racist cannot have an impact on the recipient of said racism's life... I don't care at all if someone in another address, who isn't a public servant, and with whom I'll never have contact hates my looks or people of my ancestry...
It is easy to understand why some people may want to reject before they are rejected, there is a feeling of power within that thinking I hope you can see. I certainly would prefer to know how someone feels about me 1st, and if I know he dislikes people like me, I will make every effort to avoid him.

Racism as it is widespread because of the widespread teaching that blacks are- (insert whatever negative adjective here)- is very problematic for all the preprogrammed (even the people who say/think they aren't but they are children of parents who grew up with misconceptions); the problem is massively pervasive, and very much ingrained/institutionalized...
As far as I'm concerned, the only way one can honestly deal with it, is by reading, thinking through what one feels/why, and by openly talking about these things, not hiding behind "I didn't do it, so feel no responsibility about it." It's important to understand that it's not only about having feelings against another group, part of it is taking advantage of a system that favors you, and not protesting or doing something to change it. The vast majority, no in fact 100% of the disrespectful behavior I've encountered on the streets and at work is from people who didn't have slaves. So, when someone says it must not exist because I and my friends don't mistreat people and we didn't own slaves, all I can do is remain quiet, and accept more of the same.
This can go on and on, but I won't bore everyone, M




devotionsweet -> RE: racial play2 (4/2/2005 9:46:40 AM)

Wonderfully put, thank you so much for the insight.
~jen




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: racial play2 (4/2/2005 7:41:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devotionsweet
Wonderfully put, thank you so much for the insight.
~jen

You are welcome. I look forward to reading more of your posts. M




Mlicious -> RE: racial play2 (4/8/2005 11:46:07 AM)

I too have tuned race play around in my mind. I also have eerie feelings about it. I think because in America, there is such much negative historical baggage that makes it difficult for some to attach eroticism to it. Some people are the opposite. Rather than attach the horror, they attach feelings of arousal. I have no explanation, wish I did. But I do understand. By the same token (no pun intended), I also wondered if I would feel comfortable dominating a Black male sub without any race play. I dont think my reservations are as strong there but it has crossed my mind.




LdyAuburn -> RE: racial play2 (4/9/2005 1:12:01 AM)

I was thinking about this and I would have great issues with doing that type of scene with someone indigenous. Trying to work out why and I believe it is because the 'race' isnt a role play. S/he is indigenous, I am white.. that part is real. Especially if the role was done because of how I am, white female. The scene would be using too much of 'my personal me'. For example doing a school caning scene, I am not a teacher nor are they really students, or teenagers. Lots to think of regards this

Regards W




ProScatman -> RE: racial play2 (4/9/2005 3:16:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: plantasionslave
Just a follow-up. I finally found a white pro-domme who has been willing to satisfy my fantasy of racial domination. In addition, I am finding that more and more people in our scene are admitting that they too have similar fantasies and are willing to act them out.

I'm reading this and wondering where did I go wrong, lol?
Since a LOT of white men tell me they want to be Dominated a Superior black female, it's only fair a black male should be permitted same... Still wondering why this turns my stomach a little (not in a good way).

Anyone reading this response, if you feel like giving me feedback, good or bad, don't hold back, please fell free (without personal attacks). M

It is strange to see your comment? Personally, the best Domme I've had in recient time is a light skined black lady! I emphisize lady, as that she is. We spent much quality time together, and I shall leave it at that! Also, I know a black fellow whom is looking for a white Domme, though what he's looking for is really hard to find imo. I don't understand why your stomach is turned by the o. p.? And, I also don't understand why my friend tells me he wants no part of a black Domme? He won't tell me--and I haven't pressed him about it.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: racial play2 (4/9/2005 3:47:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProScatman
It is strange to see your comment? Personally, the best Domme I've had in recient time is a light skined black lady! I emphisize lady, as that she is. We spent much quality time together, and I shall leave it at that! Also, I know a black fellow whom is looking for a white Domme, I also don't understand why my friend tells me he wants no part of a black Domme?

You missed all of the posts after this one by people replying to me, and additional posts by me? Please read them, you'll understand better.

Black fellow looking for a white domme, and wants no part of black domme? I suspect It's a big secret called self hate, I could be wrong.

I have no doubt you had great connection with the black lady; I have and hope to have great connections with white subs (especially given that majority of black men I've encountered in lifestyle are Dominants, lol), It's not about that...
There are kool intelligent, open minded people in all races and colors, so that isn't the point. It's about race play, and something painful and real I feel uncomfortable about, that is all. I didn't say my position was most evolved, it simply is how I feel about it, honest. M






ProScatman -> RE: racial play2 (4/9/2005 4:14:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavechair
Pardon the intrusion on this topic. I'm new on this board and find it to be great. As for the racial play, I would like to offer my two cents. I have been a slave for years (white). I have been punished with extreme pain by ladies of all colors and have found that the only difference is in the color. The pain is still pain. I have no objections what so ever when a lady of a different race wants to use me as her slave. ..Slavechair


This makes perfect sense to everyone... You're a slave, without issues to work out racially it sounds.
I'm not even suggesting the OP has issues to work out; I only felt uncomfortable with the approach from that angle (re-enacting what was once very real; I wanted to find a way to make this okay for me to understand (not that he needs my understanding)= like some have said, to me it would be like if I were raped, and someone suggested they wanted to play rape me again).
It's simply an angle I need to find my comfort zone in or never touch at all... I'm still unable to proceed with men who approach me as a black Domme who should make them my slave because of some guilt... I mean I want a slave [;)], but not because I'm black. M

I think I know why you feel your stomach turn! The relationship between my black Domme, and me was collorless! We simply meshed together, enjoyed the same things etc. On the other hand, my friend, and I'll go just a little farther here. He is looking for a white Domme to verbally abuse him. Since I am Bi Curious; he has asked me to do this scene with him, and I can't handle it! I have an aversion to this kind of humiliation, or more precisely racial degradation, and yes it turned my stomach as well as I sat in his living room contimplating what he wanted me to do! I couldn't accomodate his desires! Not because I loved my Black Domme, but because something about it was very unsettling to me, and was beyond my scope of what we are about. Yes, BlkTall, I believe I understand your stomach problems if we are on the same page?




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: racial play2 (4/9/2005 4:18:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProScatman
I sat in his living room contimplating what he wanted me to do! I couldn't accomodate his desires! Not because I loved my Black Domme, but because something about it was very unsettling to me, and was beyond my scope of what we are about. Yes, BlkTall, I believe I understand your stomach problems if we are on the same page?

Yes, we are on the same page, Thanks... M




ProScatman -> RE: racial play2 (4/12/2005 8:53:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mlicious

I too have tuned race play around in my mind. I also have eerie feelings about it. I think because in America, there is such much negative historical baggage that makes it difficult for some to attach eroticism to it. Some people are the opposite. Rather than attach the horror, they attach feelings of arousal. I have no explanation, wish I did. But I do understand. By the same token (no pun intended), I also wondered if I would feel comfortable dominating a Black male sub without any race play. I dont think my reservations are as strong there but it has crossed my mind.

I can only offer you this; for what it's worth! My last Dom was a light skined black Lady! Race never ever got mentioned, because we were too much into our sceneing and enjoying each others talents. It's funny, but it seems white people paid us no mind; while I got a laugh out of some black girls eyes getting big as silver dollars seeing us together. I believe I can say for Mistress Gheri and myself our relationship was collorless!




Mantra -> RE: racial play2 (4/19/2005 8:31:15 AM)

Each time this issue is discussed, people wonder at and try to understand race play. I commend the people who have taken part in the discussion, so far - I have really found your various questions and answers useful.

I am a submissive black male who enjoys race play a great deal and I hope this helps you all with it. But before I start, I can't begin to speak for all the other people out there who do this -- just myself.

A perspective: lifelong submissives, do you "understand" the dominant mindset? Lifelong dominants, ask yourselves the reverse - do you "understand" what subs think and feel when sceneing? You can't. You can understand the ground rules of the scene and of that pairing in particular and from that create the magic we all adore. But you cannot begin to understand what turns your partner on INSIDE THEIR OWN PSYCHE, without experiencing it (ie, changing orientation at some time).

The point is, you can experiment if you switch but you cannot ever switch the race you are born into. So why try to "understand" something that is always going to elude you? Have sympathy with another's viewpoint, by all means. But accept that certain things have to be taken on trust and be guided by those who have walked a walk, in racial terms, that you simply can't.

I have played with scene and vanilla tourist alike with these issues. On the one-to-one, it is easy to identify those who can understand what it's about and get into it. I have also played with white dommes with whom race hasn't come up. I am no self-hater, please take my word for it. My politics are more radical than most, I am fairly well-educated, successful-ish -- and always becoming more so. But here's the thing: I have been into BDSM in one sense or another all my life but after a while, I discovered an element which allowed me to go further. Race. Sometimes I want to play with it and other times I don't. Hmm, don't recall a white domme requesting it before me... not sure how I'd react but, hey, that would probably be a mad turn-on!

If you feel enough trust and confidence to have white lovers, spouses, friends, how can you fail to find white play partners? Don't set us back. By that logic, no woman would sub to a man because we burned strong women as witches in the past. No man could sub to a woman because really he would be "working out internalised issues from his childhood relationship with his mother". It harks back to the WHO classifying BDSM as a mental illness, if you are ready to accept that black kinksters cannot play with whatever isuue they see fit as long as its SSC. Thanks, your support is appreciated but I don't need anyone to think for me.

Just imagine you had a facet to work, which could make every scene you've ever played go up a notch in intensity? You want someone to tell you it's wrong? It's an open taboo, anyway. In the UK often white couples want to play which is not my thing but for every person who expresses reservations about racial play, there are 20 out there doing it. By bringing it out into the open, it will make it better for those who just want to experiment but feel they would be condemned for doing so (we've all heard the horror stories) and easier to identify those you should just shun.

Maybe one day it will even be a choice on the list of preferences!





resademilo -> RE: racial play2 (4/19/2005 9:29:14 AM)

Some people have mentioned this already that Race Play is edgy. But the reason is due to what happens in it. I'm a Black sub who's Doms have all been White. I am NOT into Race play.

That's because Race play isn't just being a black sub and having a White Dom. or being some other ethnicity and a White Dom. It's about enacting something from history slavery, etc.

I actually wrote in my journal some time back about two instances related to the Race Play subject. The first was where, a former dom of mine, i had at one time asked me how common it was for Black subs to be into the role of saying "Massa" or being called the "N" word as a means of play.

I let him know that wasn't my "thing", but that I have known of people into it. I say always it's a choice and as long as it's conscentual then it's fine and their business.

Now if someone wanted to call me the "N" word they better not say it to my face or in a 50 mile radius because i don't find that erotic. But i have had some White Dom wannabes send me messages trying to act all domly and flirty slinging that "N" word in the mix.

they got no response, blocked and deleted.

My other journal entry about people imposing that [race play] on a person. It's this idea that because a sub is Black they automatically must be into Race Play. Being in an interacial D/s couple has nothing to do with Race play. Some might think so, but not everyone in it does. I sure don't. My reasons for being more inclined to White Doms has nothing to do with slavery days. What i said is basically it's a choice and if a sub wants it [race play], they will make it known. Since it is a edgy thing i don't think many Doms come right out and say they are into it and some are.

But equally so it's a simple answer to why people don't feel comfortable with it. It's the same thing as why some people don't feel comfortable with besitality or castration play, or any other extreme play form. They just don't. we all have our thresholds for things.

Still Race play does have an element to it that these other things dont. It is often and probably will always be identified with periods of cruelty in history. That's the key. Periods where these things weren't consentual, weren't safe, and were far from sane. It's linked to a history of everything our BDSM community stands against. So that's probably the real reason people have problems with it. Because they can't isolate the history from the play.

But like i said it's not for everyone. It's not for me. But for people who can do it, and stay SSC then go for it. If you need it then you do. No shame in that.




Mantra -> RE: racial play2 (4/19/2005 1:53:23 PM)

You make many interesting points. Personally, race play has never featured the use of racial names. Can't say that that does much for me, either. There's a difference between race play and playing with a racist.




BlkTallFullfig -> RE: racial play2 (4/19/2005 3:11:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mantra
You make many interesting points. Personally, race play has never featured the use of racial names. Can't say that that does much for me, either.

Now you have me confused... I thought that it would, and that it wouldn't matter to you.
Please enligten me a little on what race play entails for you.
quote:

There's a difference between race play and playing with a racist.
I imagine there is, but are you always able to tell the difference? M




BeachMystress -> RE: racial play2 (4/20/2005 2:21:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mantra
There's a difference between race play and playing with a racist.
I imagine there is, but are you always able to tell the difference? M


In my case, even role playing it would leave me feeling dirty and guilty. I'd have trouble emotionally differentiating it within myself




Mantra -> RE: racial play2 (4/20/2005 3:23:02 PM)

quote:

BlkTallFullFig:
Now you have me confused... I thought that it would, and that it wouldn't matter to you.
Please enligten me a little on what race play entails for you.


Like any type of play, there are lots of ways to do this, some subtler than others. It would feel very strange to play with someone who was not both very intelligent personally and also very imaginative in their approach. I am not going to describe a scene for you.

quote:

BeachMystress:
In my case, even role playing it would leave me feeling dirty and guilty. I'd have trouble emotionally differentiating it within myself



I respect your opinion (both of you) but it worries me that the only people responding are people who have such difficulty with it. Trust me, there are a LOT of people out there doing it. If more of us were the open people we claim to be, this would be less of an issue.

We must live in an even more race-obsessed society than ever. Someone who occassionally indulges in consentual play based on race is an object of curiosity, while someone who prefers partners from one given race is tacitly accepted. I have no problem with mixed partnerships but I do feel pretty curious about black people who won't date their own race.

Race creates these anomalies because it is the last great taboo. It is a thoroughly discredited theory - there is only ONE race - yet no other human differentiation, not gender, sexual orientation, whatever, does this to people's heads like "race" does.

I am far from naive. There are no colour blind people on this planet, we all have prejudices of some kind. I am curious and content to jump in and play with the ideas, eroticise them and in doing so, re-create myself (and indirectly, those same issues). And I ain't alone in that, trust me.

I am pleased to discuss this as far as you choose but do not feel comfortable talking about specific scenes. The management regrets that refusal may offend!




lindasub86 -> RE: racial play2 (4/23/2005 10:03:30 AM)

i have played with an African American domme who specifically enjoys white female subs. She does enjoy many aspects of the black/white dynamic. it is not the core of her bdsm interest, but it is something she enjoys considerably.[:D]




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