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racial play2 - 3/22/2005 7:46:28 AM   
plantasionslave


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Just a follow-up. I finally found a white pro-domme who has been willing to satisfy my fantasy of racial domination. As discussed previously, some think this is too far out on the edge. I, however, look upon this as strictly fantasy between two consenting adults. In my regular life I am a strong black male who has managed several hundred people of every etnicity and race. In addition, I am finding that more and more people in our scene are admitting that they too have similar fantasies and are willing to act them out.
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 11:41:02 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: plantasionslave
Just a follow-up. I finally found a white pro-domme who has been willing to satisfy my fantasy of racial domination. In addition, I am finding that more and more people in our scene are admitting that they too have similar fantasies and are willing to act them out.

I'm reading this and wondering where did I go wrong, lol?
Since a LOT of white men tell me they want to be Dominated a Superior black female, it's only fair a black male should be permitted same... Still wondering why this turns my stomach a little (not in a good way).

Anyone reading this response, if you feel like giving me feedback, good or bad, don't hold back, please fell free (without personal attacks). M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to plantasionslave)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 2:10:43 PM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am a strong black male who has managed several hundred people of every etnicity and race. In addition, I am finding that more and more people in our scene are admitting that they too have similar fantasies and are willing to act them out.


What takes this out on the edge is the taboo nature of the fantasy role-play. I see nothing wrong with pushing the envelope and exploring this kind of fantasy. You are a strong man with the world at your feet, and perhaps going back to your 'roots' and living for a short while in the era of your great-great grandparents is, far from disempowering, actually very empowering. In a way you are reclaiming yourself. I see nothing wrong with this kind of roleplay.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

(in reply to plantasionslave)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 2:29:10 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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Joined: 6/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI
going back to your 'roots' and living for a short while in the era of your great-great grandparents is, far from disempowering, actually very empowering. In a way you are reclaiming yourself. I see nothing wrong with this kind of roleplay.

Wonderful... Possible connection between Nati, and the OP...
I wish MercnBeth, BeachMystress, OnceBurned, GoddessJules, Topcat, MizSuz, etc would put in their thoughts on this thread... I want to understand something that I clearly do not...

I've chat with white men who say they want to be my slave, but I've never been confortable enough to seriously try to have a relationship with a white guy who wants to be my slave when his indicated he wants this because he thinks I hate white people and he therefore owes it to me (and I'm NOT suggesting the OP has the reverse problem). So, whenever someone approaches me from the racial angle, we have to break down fantasy from what I would consider dysfunction; I'm not always able to tell, and this is why I'd like others' opinions. M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to NATI)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 2:34:03 PM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Anyone reading this response, if you feel like giving me feedback, good or bad, don't hold back, please fell free (without personal attacks). M


We aren't that far from the Jim Crowe days. So I can easily see how this might be disturbing to some. And while I think it's alright for people to play with this kind of fantasy, I can also see why other might feel queasy over the idea.

I liken this to Nazi role-play. We all know that Nazis were istruments of death, and killed millions and millions of people. But people are still drawn to the taboo. People still have this need to play with that fantasy. That is the nature of the human psyche.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 2:44:29 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NATI
quote:

Anyone reading this response, if you feel like giving me feedback, good or bad, don't hold back, please fell free (without personal attacks). M

We aren't that far from the Jim Crowe days. So I can easily see how this might be disturbing to some. And while I think it's alright for people to play with this kind of fantasy, I can also see why other might feel queasy over the idea.
People still have this need to play with that fantasy. That is the nature of the human psyche.

Thanks Nati... I apreciate this. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to NATI)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 2:46:38 PM   
NATI


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I've chat with white men who say they want to be my slave, but I've never been confortable enough to seriously try to have a relationship with a white guy who wants to be my slave when his indicated he wants this because he thinks I hate white people and he therefore owes it to me (and I'm NOT suggesting the OP has the reverse problem). So, whenever someone approaches me from the racial angle, we have to break down fantasy from what I would consider dysfunction; I'm not always able to tell, and this is why I'd like others' opinions


I guess I didn't really understand what you were asking. I was talking about the fantasy itself and not really addressing any dysfuction. I didn't see anything dysfunctional in what the OP was suggesting. I can EASILY see why you would not want to have a relationship with someone with that hang up.

Like everything. People need to be upfront about what it is that they need and want. If I am approached by someone who says: I have this fantasy about being a plantation slave, you can bet that I would spend some length of time wih him to find out what his thoughts are, and why he wants to play with this fantasy. Self hatred is the wrong reason in any context. THis should not be 'shame' based role-play. And I think that is what you are suggesting that you see happening.

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For most of history, Anonymous was a woman

Virginia Woolf

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 3:46:04 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I wish MercnBeth, BeachMystress, OnceBurned, GoddessJules, Topcat, MizSuz, etc would put in their thoughts on this thread... I want to understand something that I clearly do not...


Blk Tall,
I don't usually roam this section of the message board, but it's been a slow day at the office. Still wasn't planning on replying to this thread until I read your request. Damn woman - now you're forcing me to think about a serious subject!

Being a avid reader and student of history, I don't think I could participate in this type of play. Knowing that even the most historically accurate portrayal in film, documentary or drama, does not begin to show the real horror of Nazi Germany or slavery, I wouldn't want to use it as the foundation for a scene. I don't think I could enjoy it. It's a reason why I have an aversion and wish there was a better label for beth other than "slave". It discounts the tragedy experienced by slaves in America's past as well as the millions of people being kept as slaves right now in various places around the globe.

That said, it doesn't mean that the OP or Nati are wrong for wanting that type of play. Mel Brooks made a comedy of the Nazi's. Hogan's Heroes made being in a prison camp fun! It's just for me these atrocities are too recent, and I know to much about them, to use for eroticism. Maybe in time they will take on the same remoteness as the Roman Empire, which in context was more barbarous and cruel, and combined slavery with Nazi barbarism to form a "culture". Consider that they have concerts and cultural events at the Colosseum, scene of much torture and death; will Auschwitz someday be the site for a future born Pavarotti concert?

In this situation we have consenting people. I don't think its required that any of us enjoy their play. It's definite that they don't need are approval. It's an example of these people being confident in who they are. They appreciate their desire and confidently go after it. They are to be commended.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 6:00:59 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		This topic made me take a deep breath, think a bit, then hurry on lest I accidently put my foot in my mouth.

I think that racial play is similar to rape play - very edgy, possibly explosive but also allowing the sub to work through some deep anxiety issues.

The articles I have seen usually have been with black subs with white dominants. I can only guess at issues being played upon... perhaps the legacy of slavery in the U.S. This kind of play might allow the sub to confront a dynamic that their ancestors did, which could possibly be enpowering. By getting throught the scene perhaps they prove to themselves that they too are strong, that they too can persevere and that they too can overcome the situation. Maybe there is some kind of guilt at having an easier life?

But I am guessing. Being caucasian/white/european-american I can't really say.

But I can say that I understand the hesitancy of white doms to participate in this scenario, just as I could understand the reluctance of doms to particpate in rape play. It puts them in an icky place. But it -is- fantasy and it -is- for the benefit of the sub, not the dom.

I have to admit that I do not understand why a white sub would seek racial play. Seeking absolution for some kind of racial guilt perhaps?

quote:

whenever someone approaches me from the racial angle, we have to break down fantasy from what I would consider dysfunction; I'm not always able to tell, and this is why I'd like others' opinions


Yes I imagine it would be tough. My best guess as to a white subs angle would be one of guilt - collective and personal. Collective guilt might be feeling bad about the actions of his ancestors or from benefitting from a social structure which has disproportionately benefitted those of European ancestry. I suppose this might be "functional" and not too dangerous to mess with.

But personal guilt could easily be dysfunctional - feeling bad about past actions or attitudes which were racist. These attitudes could still be lying just beneath the surface, and the scene could bring them to the surface. Far better, I think, is for such person to resolve his feelings of guilt directly and in plain view (rather than behind closed doors). Besides community service benefits so many more than service in D/s.

< Message edited by onceburned -- 3/22/2005 6:23:16 PM >

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 6:23:17 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks MercnBeth, and Thanks Chris, I knew you guys would have good thoughts for me...
Guess I'm working out my issues on Plantation's thread... M

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/22/2005 6:29:11 PM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		eh... well, I kept editting my reponse... once I warmed up to the topic my fingers didn't want to stop typing.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/23/2005 9:35:59 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

eh... well, I kept editting my reponse... once I warmed up to the topic my fingers didn't want to stop typing.


chris,
Agree. This is a topic better discussed in person. There are an infinite number of tangents that arise if you give the subject any serious thought. I also think it's impossible to assume the perspective of a black person or a Jewish person regarding this scene. I wish I was back in NYC where this would be a GREAT subject to chat about while sitting on the couches of Hellfire.

(in reply to onceburned)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/23/2005 9:55:59 AM   
onceburned


Posts: 2117
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

This is a topic better discussed in person. There are an infinite number of tangents that arise if you give the subject any serious thought


Yes! It would be interesting to hear the viewpoints from a diverse circle of friends. And in person, since online communication loses nuance and feedback and is prone to misunderstandings.

It must be nice to have clubs with diverse memberships.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/23/2005 10:21:25 AM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
quote:

eh... well, I kept editting my reponse... once I warmed up to the topic my fingers didn't want to stop typing.

chris,
Agree. This is a topic better discussed in person. There are an infinite number of tangents that arise if you give the subject any serious thought. I wish I was back in NYC where this would be a GREAT subject to chat about while sitting on the couches of Hellfire.

Maybe after Vegas, this could become something we look at? I've never been to any place interesting in NY, and this would be an awesome introduction to you guys/Beth/NY and BDSM. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/23/2005 3:46:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I liken this to Nazi role-play. We all know that Nazis were istruments of death, and killed millions and millions of people. But people are still drawn to the taboo. People still have this need to play with that fantasy. That is the nature of the human psyche.


I'm part Swiss-German and I fit that Aryan profile perfectly. I was seeing a Jewish man that asked me to do Nazi role-play. My initial reaction was "no-way". Even though I had absolutely nothing to do with the holocaust or Nazis, I still felt some sort of transferred guilt (my people hurt your people). It took some time and a lot of communication and we finally did it. In fact, we did it twice. I have to say it was cathartic for both of us, and also troubling. It’s not something I could do regularly. I’m not even sure it’s something I ever want to do again. But I’m glad I tried it.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to NATI)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/26/2005 11:30:06 AM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline 		I'm half German. The rest is a mixture - mostly a Heinz 47 of various other European blood. Mum keeps saying we've got a tiny bit of Native American in me as well. I wouldn't know since the place in South Dakota with adoption records burned to the ground.

I'm an individual. I'm responsible for me, myself and I. I'm responsible for my actions. I don't think I owe anyone reparations for anything that I haven't done. If I'm out driving and I hit your car - fine. I'll take the blame and settle the matter. But taking responsibility for the possible actions of my ancestors isn't something I'm interested in. Nor am I going to demand something from the U.S. government for (possibly) killing off whatever Native American blood I might have had a claim to.

Does it suck that a group of people were treated poorly, unfairly and killed? Yup. Does it suck that certain people have had to endure hardships at the hands of another group of people? Absolutely. Does it mean that because I share more direct blood with one group that I should feel guilty? NO. I don't feel any race is superior. I love cultures. I love learning about them. I do my very best to avoid discrimination (though no one *and I dare you to show me one* in this world has ever been able to truly be impartial toward everyone). I don't use racial slurs. I avoid racial jokes as I would endeavor to avoid the plague. I feel that those who resort to racial comments/jokes/etc. need to examine why they hate an entire group of people.

So I've got a question... Why would someone feel guilty for something that they took no part in? Why would someone who wasn't even alive during the time the specific atrocities were going on take responsibility for the actions of others?

I'm not saying that my thought process is better than the thought process of anyone else. I'm not saying that everyone should nod and agree with me. I'm merely trying to wrap my mind around the idea of - dare I say "transferred guilt"? I think that sums up the general feeling I've been getting from others who talk about it. It seems like a transferred guilt to me.

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Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
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"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/27/2005 9:40:19 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It seems like a transferred guilt to me.


It is. And I have no idea what causes it or why it occurs. I'd be curious to know however. I have an ex-boyfriend from many years ago who is 100% German who suffered from it a lot.

I don't suffer from transferred guilt. To be honest, the only time I experienced it was during the scene I described above. The scene did however help me work out this dormant issue.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MadameDahlia)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/30/2005 8:24:32 PM   
slavechair


Posts: 3
Joined: 9/11/2004
Status: offline 		Pardon the intrusion on this topic. I'm new on this board and find it to be great. As for the racial play, I would like to offer my two cents. I have been a slave for years (white). I have been punished with extreme pain by ladies of all colors and have found that the only difference is in the color. The pain is still pain. I have no objections what so ever when a lady of a different race wants to use me as her slave. A few years back, I was the "entertainment" for a Juneteenth celebration. I didn't mind at all and even though I was punished severely by both men and women, I loved every second of it. I was kicked, walked on, stood on, stomped, sat on, and even humiliated by become a toilet for several. So again, the only difference is the color and that doesn't matter.
Slavechair

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/30/2005 8:35:14 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavechair
Pardon the intrusion on this topic. I'm new on this board and find it to be great. As for the racial play, I would like to offer my two cents. I have been a slave for years (white). I have been punished with extreme pain by ladies of all colors and have found that the only difference is in the color. The pain is still pain. I have no objections what so ever when a lady of a different race wants to use me as her slave. ..Slavechair


This makes perfect sense to everyone... You're a slave, without issues to work out racially it sounds.
I'm not even suggesting the OP has issues to work out; I only felt uncomfortable with the approach from that angle (re-enacting what was once very real; I wanted to find a way to make this okay for me to understand (not that he needs my understanding)= like some have said, to me it would be like if I were raped, and someone suggested they wanted to play rape me again).
It's simply an angle I need to find my comfort zone in or never touch at all... I'm still unable to proceed with men who approach me as a black Domme who should make them my slave because of some guilt... I mean I want a slave , but not because I'm black. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to slavechair)
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RE: racial play2 - 3/31/2005 5:35:21 AM   
diaperedbaby


Posts: 158
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		I quess I am too laid back.
If they are a good dom, race becomes a secondary issue

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
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