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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 6:57:05 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		i just don't see this the way you all see it.... i look at it as an individual case. i don't connect it with abortion, or inmates on death row, or the right to live or right to die, or even whether the parents should decide or the husband.... i guess this is what has irritated me the most about this particular case, how it's become a right vs. left fiasco, how everyone, or many i should say, have used this very personal and tragic situation and used it to push their own agenda.

Personally, i just feel sympathy for her parents and family, i find it barbaric to starve someone to death, it's not humane in my book.....but i realize this isn't the first case or the last, i just had never heard of such a thing honestly. My grandmother was on life support and we, as a family, made the decision to let her pass on, but i see Terri's situation different because she is not on life support, she was breathing on her own, she wasn't terminal, so in my mind removing that feeding tube was killing her, and even worse, killing her slowly by starvation and dehydration...so, that is what i find repugnant.... but i don't believe that it has anything to do with my views on death penalty, or abortion, or anything else, it's my view on this specific case.

right now, as i write this i just heard on the radio she has passed on.
May she finally rest in peace and may her family find strength and acceptance.

_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 7:06:58 AM   
pantera


Posts: 210
Joined: 1/7/2005
Status: offline 		Exactly babygirl!

I'm upset with that... I put myself in Terri's parents position... what if that was my daughter?

He, rightfully, has moved on... good for him... he has his life to live and that's a good thing. Then why not leave her alone to her parents???? I still don't understand it.



< Message edited by pantera -- 3/31/2005 7:07:48 AM >

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 7:10:23 AM   
pantera


Posts: 210
Joined: 1/7/2005
Status: offline 		I just read she passed away too... I hope her family finds a way to cope with all this and is able to be happy in this one life they have to live.

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 7:12:33 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		He didn't even allow the family to be at her bed side during her final moments. He crushed them (her family) 'til the very end.

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 7:39:19 AM   
pantera


Posts: 210
Joined: 1/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

He didn't even allow the family to be at her bed side during her final moments. He crushed them (her family) 'til the very end.



well... enough said

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 8:52:23 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ok, by now I have it very clear that you live in America, good for you! not everybody is that lucky- but I didn't understand this last part. How is "speeding up the process of death row" (what I was talking about) going to "be more costly" ?(what you were talking about) . I think the right to appeal and the innocent until proven guilty are two things that make this country great... and I want to see "your america" PROSPEROUS, STRONG AND FREE, second to none in this planet of ours-

I am impressed with your reseach abilities, and I would like to get the source of it, so this ignorant third world mother can learn a little more... since only wanting good people to be happy and bad people to pay for what they did is not enough... and it may be considered "right wing hypocritical mantra"



ROFLMAO..... great post! almost made me choke on my coffee tho!

yeah, i'll jump into that wagon of ignorant 3rd world mother, right wing hypocrit and will even add religious nut job in there...why not!?
What's particularly funny to me, i mean, really....just amusing at the depth of hypocricy we are witnessing in this country now a days, ( and by the way, for the record, i live in America too! yes, your america & mine!) is that so many of the liberal left claim to be so accepting, so non-judgemental, they fight for the lives of any four legged creature that walks the earth, they are so protective of the trees and the environment, yet.....if you dare have a different view you are a religious freak!! lol...what's that all about?

If a human life is not worth congress stepping in, the right to appeal after appeal as any criminal has the right to do, if a disabled woman is not given the right to stay alive than what is it all worth? How dare anyone sit all high and mighty and say, "i would never want to live that way!" "it's the quality of life that matters" um, ok that's dandy for you, but don't measure your arrogant notion of a quality of life on to everyone else.

As far as the governnent;
who has the highest power in this country? i believe now we are seeing that the judges in this country are ranking first, yet our elected officials are not even heard. How screwy is that? You see, that's the sort of thing that scares me....i want to know that our president, our governors, congress, that they are able to do their job, that they are able to step in when there is such a matter as life and death, isn't that what the constitution states? i don't pretend to know the constitution better than anyone else...but the little that i know it is congress who ultimately may have final say....our elected officials are there to ensure our rights are being protected....since when do judges have all this divine power?? really, i am asking a question here....i'd love to be enlighten by anyone who will not resort to calling me an ignorant right wing religious nutt....lol.



_____________________________

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 9:25:41 AM   
Destinysskeins


Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pantera

I thought we were talking about about this woman's tragedy??!!!

Oh look!!! it's raining outside!!! Damn Bush and all of his conservative friends! Their fault! lol!!!



Yes, we're discussing this woman's tradegy because we feel passionately and emphatically about this issue.........not because we feel that we, or our agendas, have anything to gain by discussing it. For this reason, i don't feel qualified to say or speak about anyone, other than those presenting a false image of concern. Can i truly determine who had Terri's best intentions in mind or who was acting out of self-pity, cowardness, exterior motives, etc? Nope! All i can know of the issue is what selected transcripts and excerpts each motivated party chooses to share in order to further what they perceive to be the correct way to proceed. Were it me, i'd hope that i had my affairs in order and that my family, no matter how heart broken, and the medical staff, despite whatever they would deem as 'right', would allow me to move on to the next stage of my existence in a peaceful manner without the media frenzy and familial in-fighting that has surrounded this victim. Do i have a right to say that Terri's tube should have been removed as it was because i feel as i do? Hell, no! i believe that some things aren't meant to aired in order to improve ratings, viewings, agendas, etc and it pains me to see people trying to advance themselves through the use of the ill fated.

In short - 'watch who you're stepping on because they might just trip you up'.

Well wishes

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 9:42:28 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline 		curious, do those who were opposed to the feeding tube, and who claimed terri's life unworthy and had no quality of life....do they also feel the same about the pope and his feeding tube?
and yes, i did it....i made the comparison, i wasn't going to go there but what the heck....i'd like to know if those would believe that the pope's quality of life, after all he can't even speak, he is shaky beyond control, he is practically held up there like bernie (weekend at bernies) why have a feeding tube? why keep him alive?

_____________________________

~hugs~
Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

(in reply to Destinysskeins)
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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 10:16:28 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

do those who were opposed to the feeding tube, and who claimed terri's life unworthy and had no quality of life....do they also feel the same about the pope and his feeding tube?


Only speaking for myself of course. She is the one who chose who quality of life. She told her husband. Who followed through on her last wish. At least he loved her to stay until the end.
If he truly had other adgenda's he would not have been by her bedside the past two week's. He would not have been fighting for her rights.
You can make fun of him and go on all you want about having other adgendas and having someone to share his life with. The bottom line, he stood by his wife's side in the times she really needed him.
Yes, I already know. you think significant other's mean nothing. So no need to re-hash that.
Nobody's love is valid enough. As I was reading the news this morning. The thought did come to mind. Perhaps when the accident happened or, whatever originally happened to Terri. Perhaps, just perhaps she wasn't on speaking terms at all with her parents.
Perhap's that is why her husband stuck up for her for all of these year's. How has he benefitted? There is no money. He has not been in the media as her parents have. So he is not seeking any glory.
What's in it for him but the love he has for his wife? He could have divorced her. Married the other. He chose not to. He chose to give up his own freedom to stand by his wife.
Why?

Anyway, to get back to the question at hand.
I believe they should choose a new pope. This one is not going to make it much longer and quite frankly it should'nt be aired in the media just as Terri's case was.

I'm also quite sure the Pope was a bit more intelligent than Terri was. He made his wishes well known to many. Terri's problem was she only made them known to the single person in the world who meant the most to her.


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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 11:16:30 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		I don't know if there any other "South Park" fans here, but last night they had an episode where Kenny "died", as he often does, but was brought back to life and kept alive on a feeding tube. Of course his failure to be allowed to die almost caused hell to win a war with the forces of heaven. Cartman was his Kenny's "BFF" and as such the courts gave him the decision authority over his parents. His real motive was to get Kenny's new PSP.

As I watched this alone, I was taking back to the TV and considered lowering the window blinds when I found myself laughing at parts. Of course Kile's "what we learned" speech at the end addressed on point and in the simplest terms many of the topics we have been kicking around.

Did anyone else see it? What did you think?

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 11:37:19 AM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Yes, I already know. you think significant other's mean nothing



you have me confused with another poster. i never said significant others mean nothing....i don't know that she told him this, neither do you...when in doubt we should choose life IMO, we don't send a murderer to death row if there is doubt .... it's his word against her family, her family had their reasons to believe he was abusive, his ex girl friend also alledged this, i know we can't know this to be true or false, that's where the "doubt" comes into play.



quote:

He has not been in the media as her parents have


actually he's been interviewed quite a lot....i have seen him on morning shows, cnn (larry king), i have heard him on the radio.... her parents were in the media, of course, how could they not be? If i was trying to save my child's life i'd seek help from everyone and anyone, there would be no limit as to what i'd do.

quote:

He could have divorced her


yes, he could have divorced her and let her live.... allowed the family that wanted to continue fighting for her have the chance to try therapies and numerous treatments which were not tried. There's lots of things he could have done, but he chose not to.

quote:

I believe they should choose a new pope.


eh, don't care either way....not catholic.

quote:

I'm also quite sure the Pope was a bit more intelligent than Terri was.



i don't think intelligence has anything to do with it. Terri was a common girl, she was young and vibrant, didn't have children, was starting her life at the time of her incident, why would she even think about the possibility of being fed by tubes or not....if it were something she felt strongly about she would have put it in writing, at least, that's my guess.

quote:

Perhaps when the accident happened or, whatever originally happened to Terri. Perhaps, just perhaps she wasn't on speaking terms at all with her parents.


Sure, we can do this....perhaps, just perhaps, she wasn't on speaking terms with her husband, perhaps she was abused, perhaps he's the cause of her state, perhaps a little green alien landed on her head and caused her to end up this way...... the point is, none of us know, therefore there exists the possibility of doubt, so we can all assume, and the courts can take his word over her family, and badda bing, tube is out she is dead.He can now move on and be a happy man... not that anything ever stopped him before of course.

< Message edited by ruffnecksbabygir -- 3/31/2005 11:39:44 AM >

_____________________________

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 11:42:55 AM   
Atavist


Posts: 124
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

curious, do those who were opposed to the feeding tube, and who claimed terri's life unworthy and had no quality of life....do they also feel the same about the pope and his feeding tube?


For one, the pope isn't in a persistent vegitative state, he's quite conscious. Your comparing apples & oranges.

< Message edited by Atavist -- 3/31/2005 11:43:38 AM >

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 12:03:34 PM   
ruffnecksbabygir


Posts: 412
Joined: 1/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Atavist


quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

curious, do those who were opposed to the feeding tube, and who claimed terri's life unworthy and had no quality of life....do they also feel the same about the pope and his feeding tube?


For one, the pope isn't in a persistent vegitative state, he's quite conscious. Your comparing apples & oranges.



he might as well be..... i saw more consciousness and life from the images they showed of terri than i do from the pope! Anyhow, yes, i do realize it's apples & oranges : )

_____________________________

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Babygirl

:Disclaimer: The above is only this slave's opinion:

"And Those Who Danced Were Thought To Be Quite Insane By Those Who Could Not Hear The Music" -- Angela Monet

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 12:10:25 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		A generic question that I heard recently.

If you are you playing "god" when you take the feeding tube out aren't you also playing "god" when you put the feeding tube in?

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 12:32:50 PM   
Guest
quote:

I don't know if there any other "South Park" fans here, but last night they had an episode where Kenny "died", as he often does, but was brought back to life and kept alive on a feeding tube. Of course his failure to be allowed to die almost caused hell to win a war with the forces of heaven. Cartman was his Kenny's "BFF" and as such the courts gave him the decision authority over his parents. His real motive was to get Kenny's new PSP.

As I watched this alone, I was taking back to the TV and considered lowering the window blinds when I found myself laughing at parts. Of course Kile's "what we learned" speech at the end addressed on point and in the simplest terms many of the topics we have been kicking around.

Did anyone else see it? What did you think?


Yes, I loved it. It took a very complex issue where neither side has a monopoly on 'right vs wrong" and portrayed it all in a brilliantly funny yet thought provoking manner - which in itself is a task considering the tragic reality of the Schiavo case. It drew parallels with both sides which were spot on (IMO), and more than anything, Kenny's final wish was so poignantly shameful to all those who have been using the Schiavo case for their own agenda and creating a media circus in teh process. I can only hope that more people will see the episode when it re-airs. It's one of the best South Parks I've seen (and I'ma fan of almost all of them).

Mod5
BFFs forever... lmao

PS: RIP Terri... let's hope that those who truly loved you (parents, husband, friends) can now grieve in peace and without the scrutiny of the media and the emotionally driven spectators.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 1:34:02 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
She is the one who chose who quality of life. She told her husband. Who followed through on her last wish. At least he loved her to stay until the end.
If he truly had other adgenda's he would not have been by her bedside the past two week's. He would not have been fighting for her rights.
You can make fun of him and go on all you want about having other adgendas and having someone to share his life with. The bottom line, he stood by his wife's side in the times she really needed him.

I agree Gloria, and I definitely back the husband up on his decisions, especially since he has the legal right. It's also important for me to state just once that parents are just as fallible as husbands, and giving birth does not prove ability to love.
It's unfortunate this whole think became a circus and a TOTAL POWER STRUGGLE between the parents and the husband.
As I understand (and I could be wrong), Terri's young heart gave out because of her own actions, and while the husband has been labeled Satan by some, I would love to know how wonderful these parents were to their daughter and how accepting/supportive they were (before she got sick and before she got married) to have a daughter who would accept that type of treatment (from such an awful man).

I hope she is in a better place and in peace now. M

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 1:59:45 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Kenny's final wish was so poignantly shameful to all those who have been using the Schiavo case for their own agenda


BINGO!!!

I wish it could have been seen by a broader audience.

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 3:17:32 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ruffnecksbabygir

He didn't even allow the family to be at her bed side during her final moments. He crushed them (her family) 'til the very end.


Yanno...if it was my slave on her deathbed, and her family was responsible for her not being granted her dying wishes, or tried to interfere with my taking care of her to the best of my ability (Yes, "taking care of her" in this instance would be allowing her to pass on peacefully) and these people slandered my name and put me through all of the heartache that they put Terri Schiavo's husband through... I doubt I would want them to be anywhere near her.

quote:


If a human life is not worth congress stepping in, the right to appeal after appeal as any criminal has the right to do, if a disabled woman is not given the right to stay alive than what is it all worth? How dare anyone sit all high and mighty and say, "i would never want to live that way!" "it's the quality of life that matters" um, ok that's dandy for you, but don't measure your arrogant notion of a quality of life on to everyone else.


The right to appeal? How could she possibly appeal? That is why the laws are in place. Who knows what she would have said? Who knows if she would have asked to be removed from life support? Thing is that she did not have the ability. The decision fell to her husband. He made a difficult decision that many people are forced to make every day. This decision just got more publicity.

quote:


As far as the governnent;
who has the highest power in this country? i believe now we are seeing that the judges in this country are ranking first, yet our elected officials are not even heard. How screwy is that? You see, that's the sort of thing that scares me....i want to know that our president, our governors, congress, that they are able to do their job, that they are able to step in when there is such a matter as life and death, isn't that what the constitution states? i don't pretend to know the constitution better than anyone else...but the little that i know it is congress who ultimately may have final say....our elected officials are there to ensure our rights are being protected....since when do judges have all this divine power?? really, i am asking a question here....i'd love to be enlighten by anyone who will not resort to calling me an ignorant right wing religious nutt....lol.


Checks and balances. Our elected officials can only act in accordance with our laws. The judiciary checks to make sure that those actions jive with the constitution and established laws. Who has the highest power? Heh.. the electoral college. The courts knew that they couldn't violate the rights of the husband in this matter. Especially with all this talk of the sanctity of marriage that came with the gay marriage controversey.

quote:


curious, do those who were opposed to the feeding tube, and who claimed terri's life unworthy and had no quality of life....do they also feel the same about the pope and his feeding tube?
and yes, i did it....i made the comparison, i wasn't going to go there but what the heck....i'd like to know if those would believe that the pope's quality of life, after all he can't even speak, he is shaky beyond control, he is practically held up there like bernie (weekend at bernies) why have a feeding tube? why keep him alive?


Again...it has nothing to do with someone being "worthy" of living or their quality of life. The Pope is still able to make his own decisions. If he wants the tube removed, he can tell the doctors to remove it.

Now the parents are taking the husband into court again because they want Terri to be buried, while he is going to have her cremated. Hasn't the guy been through enough?

~Thorns



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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 3:17:38 PM   
snmsub


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Terri is at rest now. I hope that her parents and her husband are going to be ok. I just wish the whole thing hadn't have been a public spectacle. It should have been a private matter.

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RE: Terri Schiavo - 3/31/2005 3:18:04 PM   
fencerpet19


Posts: 169
Joined: 2/7/2005
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure I know the episode you're talking about. Saw it a while ago, but you're right - It really draws several parallels to the case. I can't really remember much about it though... I should check it when it re-airs. Thanks!
~FP

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