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RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 12:17:39 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		There are many times that I have read submissives and dominants that had issues with a submissive calling their dominant "sir" as this was their name for the owner in their dynamic, and the dominant may not say anything, but that does not mean he is not thinking it. If another female in the real world called my Dom "daddy" I would probably have a reaction internally to that even though I would not be impolite enough to make a scene over it. I would consider it very rude and presumptuous.

I realize some submissives are ordered to call others by names they may not want to be called by, it seems nonconsensual to me in the lifestyle to assume that one should call anyone anything like "sir" or "master". I never blame them for it though, I just tend to think that their protocol has been thought through entirely to take another person's wishes into account. Just my opinion

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 1:03:48 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		LA, tho it's not something i've experienced yet, it's easier for me to imagine someone being offended by being called "Master Randy" as opposed to "Sir." perhaps that's one reason why Daddy only has me refer to Dominants we closely interact with in that way? who knows.

julia, i understand where you're coming from, and i would never wish to cause anyone offense by referring to them in a way which they found uncomfortable or inappropriate. however i think some of the differences may lie in how we all view these terms/titles. when i call someone "Master Randy" i am not calling them "my" Master, i am just respecting their authority over me and making it clear that i do not view myself as their equal (which in my Master's eyes, would be truly disrespectful). likewise with Sir, there's no confusion about them being "my" Sir, it is just a way of acknowledging our difference in status.

also these protocols are a reflection of my Master's personal beliefs and ways regarding D/s and Male/female status in general. there is a way he communicates and interacts with his male friends, and there is a way he communicates and interacts with his female friends. neither is any better or worse, less or more, but they are different. all his female friends, even vanillas, refer to him either as "Sir" or "Papi"....never at his request or demand, there's just something about him that makes anything else seem inappropriate. He tends to take a protector/mentor role with his female friends, constantly coming to their rescue or advising them in life and such, whereas his male friends are comrades, equals. if a female were to interact with him the same way he interacts with another male, he'd find it distasteful/unfeminine/etc. so it makes sense that he would train his slave not to communicate with men in that way. if a particular man or Dominant still took offense to it, more than likely they wouldn't be someone he'd get along with personally anyway as their core beliefs would be so different. and that could be the reason why we haven't yet come across anyone who had any issue with it.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 1:19:26 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

when i call someone "Master Randy" i am not calling them "my" Master, i am just respecting their authority over me and making it clear that i do not view myself as their equal (which in my Master's eyes, would be truly disrespectful). likewise with Sir, there's no confusion about them being "my" Sir, it is just a way of acknowledging our difference in status.


You qualified this well when you said that your owner would not want you interacting with men that would not want you to be anything but by first name, and I respect that very much. I just know it makes my Daddy uncomfortable to be referred to as anything but "Sinergy", and maybe uncomfortable would be even the wrong word, he just has a preference for being referred to by his given name (which is not Sinergy...lol). He does not make a deal over it when someone calls him something else.

I could find one of the posts that he made on this subject, but paraphrasing him, when people in the real world ask him how he identifies he shakes their name and gives them his first name. It sets the parameters that he wants no show of deference from any person that he has not given that permission to. It is almost as if someone was attempting to be submissive to him without him accepting that.


quote:

also these protocols are a reflection of my Master's personal beliefs and ways regarding D/s and Male/female status in general. there is a way he communicates and interacts with his male friends, and there is a way he communicates and interacts with his female friends. neither is any better or worse, less or more, but they are different. all his female friends, even vanillas, refer to him either as "Sir" or "Papi"....never at his request or demand, there's just something about him that makes anything else seem inappropriate. He tends to take a protector/mentor role with his female friends, constantly coming to their rescue or advising them in life and such, whereas his male friends are comrades, equals.if a female were to interact with him the same way he interacts with another male, he'd find it distasteful/unfeminine/etc.


You see, I relate well with men in general on an equals basis. But I understand that not all people are the same, and in some cultures this is not acceptable and I respect that because I know that not to would be futile on my part. I hope to study other cultures where these inequalities are within the culture, so I better not get offended because it is not "my way". But generally the men in my life treat me as an equal.

quote:

so it makes sense that he would train his slave not to communicate with men in that way.

It makes complete sense to both of you, everyone is comfortable within the interactions and the protocol set up by your master, all agree to it, but every dominant has a set of different protocols for their possessions.. like my Daddy only wanting me to be deferential to those he stipulates that I should be deferential to... chocolate vanilla and strawberry...smiles.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 1:30:22 PM   
ArgoGeorgia


Posts: 256
Joined: 2/9/2007
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		I don't know - for me respect has always been one of those things that is earned, not just given freely.  If someone I had just met insisted that I call them "Sir" or whatever, I would probably just not talk to them, as they have already lost my respect.

The only caveat to this are my bosses.  And that's just because I kiss ass to guarantee a paycheck when necessary.  Money sucks that way.

_____________________________

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. No, seriously. They have t-shirts for everything nowadays.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 1:50:08 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		As GeekyGirl said, in the south most of us were raised to use sir and ma'am, particularly to those who are older and to those who held positions of authority.

I'm not going to call someone in this lifestyle sir or ma'am unless I'm instructed to, but that doesn't mean I won't use those titles in response to them.  I may say 'thank you ma'am' or 'thank you kind sir' or whatever, but I'm not using them as a sign of respect for their position, but rather to be polite.

I call my Master either Master or by his first name, depending on the situation.  When I answer him, it's "yes sir" or "no sir".



(in reply to simplewhispers)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:12:47 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		No, I refer to people by the name they introduce themselves with....whoever they are.

agirl







(in reply to simplewhispers)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:14:18 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Just curious do you address each man that you know is a Dom with Sir ? Each Mistress as such , or do  you reserve that for the one that chooses you ? Enlighten me please ......


I call them by name.  I have had a few highly regarded male dominant friends in the past, prior to knowing my Master, whom I called Sir.  I have one well respected male dominant friend who I asked about calling Sir, and he said to just call him by name, although having been my confessor I've been known to kiddingly call him "Father" hahaha...

But as for deferring to anyone...I defer/submit/surrender/obey to one and only one.  I have been trained away from the notion of slaves being inferior to all dominants, but once in awhile I will talk to someone who is clearly more powerful than I, and offer him/her due respect as such.

(in reply to simplewhispers)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:16:41 PM   
moki1984


Posts: 274
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		i have a tendency to call all men sir even if not dom BUT that is because I was in the military and was trained for years to do that out of common courtesy.....

(in reply to simplewhispers)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:27:02 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

when i call someone "Master Randy" i am not calling them "my" Master, i am just respecting their authority over me and making it clear that i do not view myself as their equal (which in my Master's eyes, would be truly disrespectful). likewise with Sir, there's no confusion about them being "my" Sir, it is just a way of acknowledging our difference in status.



For me, I do not consider any person regardless of gender to have authority over me, with the exception of my bosses, my parents, and my dominant. I view myself as equal (or sometimes superior to) everybody else on earth. I don't acknowledge any difference in status because I do not believe that women and men are unequal. He is not automaticaly in authority to me or of higher status to me just because he has a penis. I have penises too (psst..is it penises or peni? Proper plural?) ..about 5 of them in a drawer somewhere , and some of mine are larger than those of the men I know !

However, I respect the fact that you believe differently and understand why it is a value you hold in esteem.

(in reply to daddysprop247)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:28:31 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		FR

I just got my first email from a female submissive that called me "ma'am"...now I do not know if it is because I am old or if it is that she is somewhat confuzzled

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GeekyGirl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:32:56 PM   
wyldsubmissive


Posts: 157
Joined: 5/7/2005
Status: offline 		Due to my military upbringing I address my superiors and most people as Sir or Ma'am unless they're younger then me.

It's a service member thing...


_____________________________

"A man's ability to have an erection has very little to do with my desire to submit to him.... If that were the case, I would have submitted to my vibrator years ago."

-credited to champangewishes

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:33:33 PM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline 		My partner is the only one I refer to as Master or Sir, unless he tells me otherwise.   In a vanilla setting, I may use sir or ma'am when addressing a police officer, someone in the supermarket, someone on the phone, but that title is in a different context.     

(in reply to simplewhispers)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:36:28 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

confuzzled


That's the coolest word ever...I'm adding it to my vocabulary!


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 2:57:26 PM   
piercedntattooed


Posts: 43
Joined: 3/10/2005
Status: offline 		i only use Master for the one i belong to also, it just isn't a title i can give anyone, it has to mean something to me
everyone else i call them by their names or whatever my Master chooses
 

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 3:25:17 PM   
DaddyDeSade


Posts: 22
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline 		I for one would be uncomfortable if any sub but my own called me Sir. And if any sub called me Master I would correct them. I have seen Doms who insist on their subs calling all other Doms Master or Mistress. I have spoken to them. Often they are doing it to be respectful of others. Which I generally will offer my opinion that it is most respectful to call someone what they want to be called. In one case the Dom was trying to impress upon the sub their place, as a penalty for continued embarassing brattiness at parties. In that case we settled on her calling me Mr. Ahze as a compromise.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 3:32:41 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Nope, I do not. I do not believe in using honorifics simply cause what they identify as.

quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers

Just curious do you address each man that you know is a Dom with Sir ? Each Mistress as such ,

(in reply to simplewhispers)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 3:33:50 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I prefer to be addressed by my name by subs and Doms alike. I tend to call people Sir or Maam becaue its something I have to do at work every day and it carries over.  By the same token, I am comfortable being addressed as both Sir and Maam since I taught karate for years and I answered to both. Its just a title, not a pet name. If someone other than Angel called me Mommy, I think I would have major problems with it.  Just about everyone I know calls him Angel, though, and thats fine. And he calls just about everyone either Sir or Maam out of respect becasue thats how he was raised.

Hope that helps
DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: level of respect - 2/28/2007 3:43:31 PM   
softcoresicko


Posts: 41
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline 		Online, I tend to use whatever screenname someone has chosen (or a shortened form, once I'm certain what they consider an acceptable shortening).  I've never felt the need to call anyone Sir or Ma'am, nor had it demanded of me.  I usually try to capitalize the words Master and Mistress when I use them, more as a show of respect for the institution, so to speak.

In the real world, I tend to use sir, ma'am, or miss for people I don't know in any sort of situation.  It just seems less offensive than "Hey, you!".  Even we Northern boys have some class.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
As well, no one's ever been able to tell me how they'd address a switch.


Heh.  Nobody's ever told me how I should be addressed, either.  Most people I've talked with call me some derivative of softcoresicko, like softcore, SCS, or soft (which is both amusing, and makes me wish I had given some forethought to how my nickname could be abbreviated).  I can't speak for all switches, but anything that gets my attention and allows me to know you're talking to me is fine in my book.  

< Message edited by softcoresicko -- 2/28/2007 3:44:45 PM >

_____________________________

"Don't Dream It, Be It"
-Dr. Frank N. Furter
The Rocky Horror Picture Show

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: spectful RE: plies - 2/28/2007 3:44:51 PM   
Lucius


Posts: 80
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I’ve never seen anyone get offended at being called sir, or ma’am


I have, unfortunately. My impulse is to – well, I’ll let LaTigresse say it -

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I would probably tell them to remove the cob from their ass


Yep, that pretty much is how I feel towards both those who are offended at being called Sir and Ma’am and to a lesser extent those who make a big deal about refusing to call anyone Sir or Ma’am. However, please see my response to GeekyGirl below; I have come to understand the attitude a little better.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
“you aren’t my master, I’m not treating you like you are.”


This puzzles Me. Calling someone “Sir” is not “treating them like they’re your Master.” It’s just treating them with courtesy.

If calling someone “Sir” makes them My Master, then I have a hell of a lot of Masters. Like several others here, I was in the military once.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
the dominant may well prefer that no one but one they own refer to them this way


I understand this one even less. Why would anyone object to being addressed politely?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
no one’s ever been able to tell me how they’d address a switch…


Any reason I can’t call them Sir or Ma’am? If I want to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeekyGirl
In a BDSM setting I purposely do not use the terms “ma’am” “mistress” “sir” or “master” …. because I don’t (want) anyone to assume  that I’m deferring to them.


I think this is unfortunate, but it IS perfectly understandable. Far too many Dominants (or would be Dominants) are all too likely to seize on something as trivial as calling them “Sir” and interpret it as consent to being commanded, dominated, or even claimed. I imagine it would only take one encounter with such to make a submissive very wary of even uttering the word “Sir.”

Lucius Alexander

House of the Palindromedary

(in reply to piercedntattooed)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: spectful RE: plies - 2/28/2007 3:56:55 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		You hit it exactly, Lucius.

I normally do use "sir" and "ma'am". It's how I was raised. However, I do not like people to mistake my politeness for deferrence...I defer to very few people on earth. By avoiding the terms, I avoid any misunderstandings.

(thanks for catching my typo above...I'm always leaving words out!)

< Message edited by GeekyGirl -- 2/28/2007 4:00:38 PM >

_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to Lucius)
Profile   Post #: 40
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