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Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/2/2007 4:19:42 PM

missturbation

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Whilst reading i came across an opinion of the existence of heaven and hell. I am in no way trying to offend those who believe in the after life and all that involves but can't help but wonder if maybe the author of the book i'm reading may be on to something.

He claims that there is no passage in the bible that actually states there is a 'place' called hell. Now im not talking about a mental state which could also be seen as hell but a real place we would go after death.

A passage taken from the bible says :-
'All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.'
Ecclesiastes 18 - 20.
So to me this reads we come from the dust and return to it, nowhere else.

The author of the book goes on to state:-
'Rejecting the dogma of hell, we may likewise dismiss the other of paradise; both are the wicked inventions of theological despots.......'

My questions are:-
Does anyone know of any quotes from the bible which point to hell existing as a 'place' rather than a mental state?
Also do you think it is possible that hell is just a fictional place made up to frighten us into being saints and heaven a made up place to keep us from sinning?

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/2/2007 4:32:44 PM

Rule

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Hell and the Heavens are real, interesting, but small places. At the moment they are not accessible from Earth, but doubtlessly they still exist.

Indian mythology advices not to stay in the individual Heavens, as the reigning gods are all crazy.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 4:33:28 AM

windchymes

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The older I get, the more I'm starting to believe that life on Earth IS hell, and the concept of heaven is just something that keeps us going until we eventually become dust.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 4:46:28 AM

NorthernGent

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I think it's more than possible that the whole concept of hell is a tool to ensure people know, and stay within, their place. Ultimately, I can't see the wisdom of believing in a place where an impish, red bloke runs 'round playing weak practical jokes with a fork, horns and a tail. If it does exist, where is it? maybe in the queen's attic....who knows.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 4:56:05 AM

mnottertail

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The concept of a hell actually comes from the Norsemen---

Hel was one of Lokis wives, she ruled it. It was where you went if you didn't go to Valhalla. You just became more and more morose, until you laid down and were covered by snow and slept.

The closest reference to Hell in the Bible is the garbage dump outside of Jeruslem where garbage rotted and was constantly burned---Gehenna, it is where useless articles went to be totally destroyed, which is somewhat less allegorical than the theologists would have you believe.

Odin

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 6:06:12 AM

sub4hire

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Interpetation as always.
There are a lot of references to hell in the bible. I'm guessing it also depends upon which bible you are reading at the time as well.
Type in Hell in the search box here.
http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T4253

On a side note did anyone notice on the news someone claims they found Jesus bones? How can that be? Haven't we learned Jesus is not dead so how can his bones be on earth?

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 6:11:30 AM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Whilst reading i came across an opinion of the existence of heaven and hell. I am in no way trying to offend those who believe in the after life and all that involves but can't help but wonder if maybe the author of the book i'm reading may be on to something.

He claims that there is no passage in the bible that actually states there is a 'place' called hell. Now im not talking about a mental state which could also be seen as hell but a real place we would go after death.

A passage taken from the bible says :-
'All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.'
Ecclesiastes 18 - 20.
So to me this reads we come from the dust and return to it, nowhere else.

The author of the book goes on to state:-
'Rejecting the dogma of hell, we may likewise dismiss the other of paradise; both are the wicked inventions of theological despots.......'

My questions are:-
Does anyone know of any quotes from the bible which point to hell existing as a 'place' rather than a mental state?
Also do you think it is possible that hell is just a fictional place made up to frighten us into being saints and heaven a made up place to keep us from sinning?

Misst, I think the "dust to dust" part is just referring to the physical body, not the spirit.

I don't know what comes after, I haven't been dead . I am a Christian, and I have faith that I will either find a heaven of some sort, or at the very least, eternal, peaceful sleep. I don't believe in a hell, not one that causes torment..... some theologians say hell is being separated from God, or from peace.... again, I don't know.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 7:45:54 AM

velvetears

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i believe in reincarnation so in a sense i believe in hell too - cause when i die i am coming back here to earth!

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 7:52:31 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

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WE keep coming back until we get it right or do we live in dual dimension where one is heaven in a sense and the other hell here on here on earth..bounty

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 8:01:13 AM

sleazybutterfly

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I believe that Heaven is a peaceful place where we won't have the troubles we have here, and we will be with those that have went before us. To me, hell is being away from the presence of God, I don't see it as someplace where we go and are on fire.

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Life is not a popularity contest, it's better to be hated for what you believe, than loved for a lie.

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Post #: 10

RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 8:31:07 AM

LaTigresse

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Since I believe in reincarnation until we learn the lessons our souls need and no longer have any use for these physical lives.....I don't believe in a christian concept of heaven, hell, life after death. Moreso, just ultimately a different life of the sort most of us cannot even begin to comprehend.

Sorry for the weird run on sentence but it was the best way I came up with to explain what is floating around in my brain this morning.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 8:52:13 AM

bludemonn

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The years following the conquests of Alexandra are referred to as the Hellenistic period 323- 146 bc or Alexandrian period, Hell is referred in the New testament, taken from the adaptation of the Hellenistic afterlife period of Tartarus, as hell took on the conept in the Medieval period it took on Greek concepts such as Satryr/Stan and Elysium/Heaven, Hell derived as a place from Zoroastrian Eschatology from which 'judgement day' orginated. Judaism believed in the place known as Sheol although it could have been a metophor for death rather than a place. By the way that info was from a little research i just did even though I knew Hell was actually from the origin of Hellenistic period. You must remember the bible contrary to the ardent christian is a collection of works taken from other religious and older beliefs and is constantly changed, Hell is not mentioned in the old testament. Someone said that something recently that rung true, Hell is a collection of small humiliations that your memory stores up,your private Hell can only be unique to you thats if you believe in it. If you don't then the possibilities for your own afterlife are endless.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 9:20:41 AM

hammernhoney

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When you have reached the prefer enlightenment and your body returns to dust and you live again forever among the stars in sprite ,now that reaching the perfect state.IS this heaven who is to say,all I know once you are there you don't want to come back...bounty

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 11:17:22 AM

GeekyGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i believe in reincarnation so in a sense i believe in hell too - cause when i die i am coming back here to earth!

I sort of feel this way...I believe in reincarnation and I believe once you learn all your life lessons you get to shed your physical form and be an astral creature...until you learn those lessons you have to keep coming back to earth.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/3/2007 11:39:46 AM

domiguy

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Dead is dead.....Did you hear about that horrible train accident...27 were killed...Pass the butter please.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/4/2007 10:24:15 PM

bludemonn

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oh yeah by the way Misst if you are expecting enlightenment and furtherment from your deep questions.....boy you picked the wrong message board! Until death and such like are up and running on pay-per-view or on some garish fucking moronicly shallow chat show so people can SEE it whilst eating popcorn i don't think you are going to get much luck! Maybe a question like 'if i walk outside with no shoes and socks and tread on some broken bottles will i feel pain and if so WHO can i sue? ' is more relevant here!

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/5/2007 2:48:09 PM

missturbation

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*Giggles*
Actually i was highly rude, i wrote the post then went away for the weekend so have only just seen the replies.
I think the replies have been enlightening.

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/5/2007 3:03:28 PM

JerseyKrissi72

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I attend a Methodist church on a somewhat regular basis and use to teach Sunday school--- now stop laughing, there is a good side to me. Here is what I know as I have read the Bible twice (once as a kid mostly as punishment lol i was bad alot) and I had to do extensive research on the believe in hell for a project we did in church.

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:13).

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom" (Luke 16:23).

The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;" (2 Samuel 22:6).

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (II Thessalonians 1:9).

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

"And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit" (Revelation 9:2).

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name" (Revelation 14:11).

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Our greatest glory is not in never falling-but in rising every time we fall ( Confucius )

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/5/2007 3:20:45 PM

MordSithLover

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the biblical word for hell, sheol, literally means grave.
hence there is mention of hell but not as the Catholic fictitious place of fire but as the grave where we go when we die, ashes to ashes dust to dust.
The mention of lake of fire in Revelation was seen in Johns vision for gods judgement day and is symbolic of god ridding and cleansing of evil.

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Mord-Sith are chosen at a young age. Only the most gentle and caring girls are chosen, as it is believed the most innocent and loving are capable of the most torture and cruelty.

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RE: Heaven, hell or dust ?? - 3/5/2007 3:22:21 PM

MordSithLover

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ps i studied the Bible from about 5 yrs old til I was 18, then i realised it was a pile of poo. Now i think there is something out there but Im too busy having fun to sit wasting my life figuring out what.

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Mord-Sith are chosen at a young age. Only the most gentle and caring girls are chosen, as it is believed the most innocent and loving are capable of the most torture and cruelty.

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