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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 12:24:24 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think this a very unfair generalization, since the majority of the people I have met who view submissives as being weak dont really make a distinction between male or female.

So the real question (to me at least) is why is submission viewed as weakness?

The best answer I can give is its just a cultural mentality (especially America culture). We idolize the powerful and turn our noses at the servants of society (waiters, garbagemen, cooks). The concept of service is undervalued and misunderstood. In social terms, the position of Master is one of success and the position of slave is one of failure.

However, in a D/S relationship, status isnt determined by a job or money, but rather cosentual choice so in reality neither role is weaker or better than the other. I view it as a Ying and Ying type of thing. Both sides take strength and both sides are providing a service to the other.

In summary, the view comes from ignorance and a lack of understanding of what dominance is all about.

Just two cents.

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(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 12:49:59 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Submission implies weakness like bald headedness implies artistic capability. They are non sequiter.
I play across gender lines and across orientation lines and Have always tried to put forth the idea that gender makes little to no difference in a person's natural orientation for D/s. Socialization has a great impact as stated earlier. But I see no natural inclination that I cannot trace to socialized influence.

Go take a look at the gay leathermen watch the boys play and see if you see weakness in their service, Go take a look at the leather dykes watch them play and see if you see weakness in their choices. If you don't see it in them then when you see it in heterosexuals it is socialized not natural view of weakness.


(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 4:32:18 PM   
Kinkypupper


Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		Not in the least, Most submissives are probably a lot stronger willed and strong of convention then most "Dom" types

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(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 4:36:23 PM   
MistressDoMe


Posts: 295
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

Not in the least, Most submissives are probably a lot stronger willed and strong of convention then most "Dom" types


I agree, I have always felt it takes a strong man to submit.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 4:57:43 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

of course subs r weak. but wise enuff 2 acknowledgetheir weakness and get the protection of a master. its just nature, the weak seek thestraong and serve them. nothing 2 be ashamed of, the shame is not knowin who u r


I’m so sorry that you don’t feel capable of dominating a strong person, but I’m sure that some time and experience will be helpful to you. 

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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 4:58:26 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		There were some great answers there : thanks for the contributions.  

I agree wholeheartedly that it is a silly and unfair generalisation about male Dominants..  Thats why I asked for a straw poll of male Doms.  To show readers (particularly those that play in chatrooms) that submission is nothing for a man to be ashamed of and the male Doms agree. Never, ever.

Someone did warn me about the "generalisation police".......you people who get your jollies pouncing on others and criticising the writer and his or her (assumed) beliefs.  That behaviour (particularly to relative newcomers) says a lot about you as people.  Putting down others is not a likeable kink :)

But I should have framed the heading "Do male Doms think male subs are weak"?  The problem was the heading.  I will make the heading clearer next time :)

Thanks all of you who answered and for the learning experience :)

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 3/4/2007 5:09:14 PM >

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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 5:03:29 PM   
hammernhoney


Posts: 268
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Some of the meeks are the strongest,they have to be to suffer for our pleasure...OF courses many weak ones among the mix..bounty

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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 5:20:46 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		i apologize sincerely and wholeheartedly for posting such a reply (and no Daddy didn't tell me to do this) to those who have read it. 

goodnight


< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 3/4/2007 5:52:56 PM >

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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 5:34:35 PM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline 		I do not look at submissives as being weak at all.  Actually it is their strength which we harness to make our own.  The weaker a sub/slave is, then what can they do for us?  How do they do the things we request of them? Submission is never a sign of weakness.  I have great respect for the strengths in a sub/slave, needless to say I find little value in a doormat.  I like stronger multi-functional things which there is more value in.  Plus is a sub/slave is so weak as if made of glass, they will not last long.  I like to have things which don't break easy!  Hope this helps!

Need to take a whip to the Troll and Dogs.. wait.. I'll spare the FukinTroll of the whip.  He gave a very deep answer in a short sentence!  Give him a Gold Star..


(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 5:39:30 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry to bog a good thread down with this rubbish but

My thread opens:

"There seems to be a common belief that " and then asks if that is true. 

Not my "belief.  Not my "thoughts". 

Why doesn't  Lurking Daddy take his naughty little girl aside and give her a few stern lessons in courtesy to strangers. 

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 3/4/2007 5:41:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 5:50:27 PM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		LOL

we don't do public display or wear our kink like badges of honor


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...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...


...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 6:18:56 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Nobody so far on this thread has defined what makes someone considered "weak" or "strong" (not even the OP. Maybe a few hints, but that's it). Just an observation - but an interesting one, IMO.

Had I seen this thread earilier, I would have first asked the OP: Deifne "weak". Define"strong", and I'll have discussion from that point (at least from me). Thta's just me, but what do you mean by those words, really? Know what I'm sayin'?

I do disagree all male Doms see male subs as weak (but some definitely do, and some female submissves do, too). My guess is they haven't met many, or are phobic (like FT said), or have some role steroetypes in their head they cannot rid themsleves of. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/4/2007 6:25:43 PM >

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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 7:26:00 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		All too true Susan, and so such statements that submissives might be stronger than dominants smack of ego stroking and political correctness more than of fact.

How can one even be compared to the other as weaker or stronger when in general people cannot even agree on exactly what a dominant or submissive is.  Are we talking people who are only dominant or submissive in the bedroom... as a style of relationship... a style of life... or any of the other variations people come up with?  Which dominants, which submissives, and exactly what qualities are being compared?  Strength of will, stubborness, earning potential, how much they can bench press... what are the standards here, what are the measuring sticks?  And with none of that sure, with no such comparison established, how can anyone honestly assert anyone is stronger or weaker than anyone?

If people cannot agree on standards (and how many times have we seen such things argued in these forums alone), then such comparisons or statements are pointless.  Until such a time as people do agree on such things (and I won't be holding my breath waiting), then we'll just have to accept that dominants are dominants and submissives are submissives and each does their thing in their own way... and so long as you're happy doing it... does all the rest really matter?

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 7:38:34 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Hello MsC, I have noticed that a great majority of the submissive males tend to be white collar men.
I tend to notice more blue collar men that are Dominants.
This makes sense, men that have to take orders all day or work under someone would
want to be in charge when they come home.
Transversley, many lawyers, physicians and businessmen want to relinquish control.
Works for me.
Any comments?


Yes, I'll comment. I think you are mistaking (or these men are) the desire for kinky fantasy play for submission here. All of the men that I know who are high powered executives, lawyers, or whatever who want to be "dominated" merely want the fantasy of giving up control while they are inflicted with whatever "punishment" they might deserve. Very few of these people (if any, that I know) are interested in a D/s or M/s relationship where they would actually be under a woman's control for real. On the other hand, some of the best slaves I know have been in the military. They may not have been at the bottom of the chain, may not have been at the top, but they do know a thing or two about taking orders. Most of the real submissives and slaves I know have normal jobs and are neither CEOs nor peons (and I'm using real as opposed to the the "Oh Mistress I NEEED to be humiliated" types, also defining it as being in a relationship as a slave currently.)

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/4/2007 8:34:34 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		MsCfromMelbourne,

As a self appointed member of the "generalization police" I want to comment on your belief that we got our hackles up for nothing.

quote:

  There seems to be a common belief that
1) you male Master/Dom/Tops think male submissives are weak
and so
2) you would be ashamed to admit if you actually tried - and god forbid enjoyed -  submitting to a woman.


quote:

Are these assumptions about your antipathy


When one person says to another "YOU" and "YOUR" behavior this and that...most assume you are speaking to them about their behavior.

You do end it well but first impressions count...

quote:

So why do people think Dominant males disrespect submissive males?  Do you? 


I wouldn't quible about the use of people because it is clear you are not accusing everyone, especially when you look at how you end it, "Do you?"  However, that is one line and not the tone of the rest of your post.


(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/5/2007 1:59:54 AM   
nissa


Posts: 125
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: Carson City Nevada
Status: offline 		a submissive ( whether male or female ) is only as weak as the person that they are with

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(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/5/2007 4:11:35 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		You can't really expect anybody with an IQ over 20 to say he thinks all subs are weak. He would get flamed and lose any chance of anybody actually submitting to him.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/5/2007 4:18:07 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

Should I go put this question in "Ask A Submissive"?????

I was asking (not demanding) the Masters if the "generalisation" about them was true or not. 

I cite my own experience and I hope they cite theirs to dispel the generalisation


I guesss you haven't been on these forums much. People tend to go wherever they feel like and respond to whatever spurs them to respond. Your question also ignores sects of this lifestyle who also feel male subs are weak (I've encountered fem subs who fuss about it).

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
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RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/5/2007 4:20:33 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joyinslavery

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

of course subs r weak. but wise enuff 2 acknowledgetheir weakness and get the protection of a master. its just nature, the weak seek thestraong and serve them. nothing 2 be ashamed of, the shame is not knowin who u r


I personally don't know too many subs who are "ashamed".

The only shame involved would be on the part of some generic dominant that had the misfortunate to say something like that to me in person. 

They'd realize pretty quick there's nothing weak about me.   




I'd like to second this...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to joyinslavery)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Are submissives weak? - 3/5/2007 4:26:38 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Oh Michael... you always do cut to the chase so nicely...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 60
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