RE: Masochism Redefined

RE: Masochism Redefined (Full Version)

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swtnsparkling -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/4/2007 2:35:26 PM)
quote: Author: Sam Vaknin The masochist has been taught from an early age to hate herself and consider herself unworthy of love and worthless as a person. Consequently, he or she is prone to self-destructive, punishing, and self-defeating behaviors. Though capable of pleasure and possessed of social skills, the masochist avoids or undermines pleasurable experiences. He does not admit to enjoying himself, seeks suffering, pain, and hurt in relationships and situations, rejects help and resents those who offer it. She actively renders futile attempts to assist or ameliorate or mitigate or solve her problems and predicaments. These self-penalizing behaviors are self-purging: they intend to relieve the masochist of overwhelming, pent-up anxiety. The masochist's conduct is equally aimed at avoiding intimacy and its benefits: companionship and support. Masochists tend to choose people and circumstances that inevitably and predictably lead to failure, disillusionment, disappointment, and mistreatment. Conversely, they tend to avoid relationships, interactions, and circumstances that are likely to result in success or gratification. They reject, disdain, or even suspect people who consistently treat them well. Masochists find caring, loving persons sexually unattractive. The masochist typically adopts unrealistic goals and thus guarantees underachievement. Masochists routinely fail at mundane tasks, even when these are crucial to their own advancement and personal objectives and even when they adequately carry out similar assignments on behalf of others. The DSM gives this example: "helps fellow students write papers, but is unable to write his or her own". What a bunch of poppy cock I 'm a masochist and I cant see a thing in that- which pertains to me at all Just sounds like a very sick depressed mentaly ill person

sadomasokisti -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/4/2007 6:21:19 PM)
Most research and studies on masochism has been based on studies on patients who seek help. Not on masochists who are glad to be masochists and don't seek any help...

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/4/2007 8:24:42 PM)
So some of us, enjoy or want pain! There are those which want to give pain! If two people connect and each filfuls this roles, with balance in needs, where's the problem? It's like asking the question why is a cat a cat!

Sinergy -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/4/2007 8:36:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jadein It could be that they aren't clueless to people enjoying pain ... and I would wager they in fact aren't clueless about it at all ... but thier argument would be that it's not "normal" for a person to enjoy pain ... physical or otherwise. I was a psycology major in college ... I didn't finish, but it is a passion of mine. I can't speak as eloquently as some others might but hopefully I can get my thoughts across clearly. Most in the psycology/psychiatry field would say it goes against human nature to seek out painful situations to thrive on it. I've always said that I'm a pretty neurotic person .... this lifestyle is just another notch in the neurotic belt. I wouldn't say that I'm a physical masochist ... but I do tend to torture myself with emotional crap all the time .... I think that's probably not a good thing LOL I would disagree about your comments about going against human nature. In my opinion, it is a dichotomy. Human beings have a striving to experience pleasure and gain rewards. This goes all the way down the the motive force of the sex drive. Pain causes the brain to modify it's chemical soup to accomodate the pain signals and deal with them. A masochist (non-psycho self hating) has these two drives crossed in their brain. The need to sublimate the sex drive gets linked to the endorphin rush of pain. Two different worlds, working in synergy to create multiple orgasms and euphoria. Just me, could be wrong. Sinergy p.s. I think that masochism should be included in some form in DSM IV, but I would propose giving it some name like "self destructive pain seeker" because the masochists I know are not self destructive at all, and generally are incapable of having too many orgasms.

jadein -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/4/2007 8:42:28 PM)
Like i said ... i'm not the most eleoquent of speakers or typers for that matter. i agreed with what brat said ... from what i've studied and just know in general ... i also really liked the post about sociatal norms ... because that is what the DSM is based on mostly. i personally have a huge interest in not letting society dictate to me what is normal and what isn't because i have an unmentionable with Autism. Most say he'll never do this or he'll never do that ... or he looks wierd doing this or wierd doing that ... but who's to say that those things aren't normal. Not me.

juliaoceania -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/4/2007 9:24:39 PM)
It is very strange that because someone does not experience pain as pleasure that they label someone as somehow "psycho". I would say every jogger that gets off on a runner's high is a "psycho" too, because they have pushed their body to such a painful extent they get high on it.. I know.. I do it for a rush myself. Although it is a different sort of "high" than subspace, it is still putting the body for punishment for a reward. In fact people have been inflicting pain on themselves for spiritual reasons since mankind appeared.. shamans deprive themselves of food, water, comfort, total sensory deprivation.... possibly their euphoria is like what I experience when my Daddy beats the crap out of me. You know what, I would measure that guy who wrote that article against me for mental wellness any day... because we are all "abnormal" in some way or another. I truly experience pain as pleasure and found this out by the direction of another... I was kinda surprised by it, but embraced it. I do not experience all pain as pleasure, do not seek to experience pain that I do not enjoy, and pretty much I am a hedonist these days to the extent my Daddy allows. If that makes me "sick"... well I hope everyone gets as "sick" as I am... ... I agree with Scott.. giving people an outlet for their desires as long as they are not obsessive (like dating a Sadist) makes good sense to me... and anyone can become obsessive about anything... people get obsessive with food, their looks, sex, and booze, even work... I see the obsessiveness as the problem, not the masochism itself. I wish psyche people would invest more time in looking at what makes people functional instead of obsessing on what makes us "abnormal"... we need models for mental wellness, not mental illness

sadomasokisti -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/5/2007 8:00:04 AM)
The purpose of pain is to let us know that something is not so right in our body and we need to relax. Our survival mechanism has an overriding switch on our pain perception because sometimes it's not very beneficial to have to relax (like when there is a big lion on our tail). It's also a good politic for the species to be able to minimize pain when we are making process of making babies and or for mothers delivering them. Therefore the process of pain reliving is not so abnormal at all.

servicewithsmile -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/5/2007 8:02:55 AM)
Oh, yes, that is me too! We are similar Daddysprop & Ownedgirlie. You both said it well. I've been down that road..... Fortunately, when I was in my early 20s, I ran into a book by Gloria Brame (I think) at a D/s friend's house that I browsed. I was struck by a few lines about non-consensual play with mundanes. Since then I have strived very hard to not "provoke" a mundane into playing my humiliation game with me. It's not fair. I even ended up lecturing my little sister about it. I could see she was getting into this ugly cycle of being unreasonable and vicious with her bf and then when he lost his ability to keep his hands off her (he should have just walked, of course -can't get riled up by someone's verbal assault if you can't hear them!), she would then blame him and act the martyr. I told her it's not fair, if she wants to be the bottom in the relationship, she needs to go find someone that will consent to it, not hedge her bets/retain control with a mundane. My integrity demands a transparent power exchange. Not that it was always so. My human failing when I 'left' D/s in my late 20s, married a man ....well....let's just say I should have slipped away to a prodomme/servicetop, gotten myself a good rope bondage/humiliation session when the need was great and come home 'right' as rain. I regret my behavior in that relationship, it should not have gone the way it did. I am the wiser, but not the better for it. Nonetheless, I suspect one day I may have to marry a mundane just to reproduce as my personal experience with D/s'ers has led me to believe there is no room in most of their lives for a breeder. I plan to employ the 'slip away to a service top' strategy should I be forced to settle. I want my cake and have it shoved in my face too! [:D] p.s. Ah yes, attended a Jay Wiseman lecture about 5 years back - he was clearly going on about Emotional Masochists. I like that term, it certainly applies. No pain for me, please!

BeachMystress -> RE: Masochism Redefined (3/5/2007 10:26:30 AM)
I find it interesting that the author constantly refers to the masochist as "she." He only says "he or she" in one instance. In another he says he, but it looks to be a typo as the next sentence says she. That alone is enough to raise red flags for me and to take the author with a grain of salt. I very strongly agree with LokisBrat about the issue of being wired different. To me, the sounds of a person in physical pain mimic the sounds of a person highly aroused. Emotional pain sounds not only don't interest me, but actually repel me. This is not something I gained via a childhood experience, as I remember being attracted and fascinated by sounds of pain at three years of age. My parents caught me being less than nice to a dog, and strongly explained to me why we do not hurt other creatures. Since then, I need the pain I cause to be consensual. Non consensual physical pain actually angers me. While there are some issues in my childhood of molestation and abuse, all of them happened after this incident and after I first started having fantasies of tying people up. I was born this way. Overall, I consider the statements made by this man, no matter his credentials, to be from someone who has no real understanding of masochism.

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