RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/4/2007 11:02:54 PM)

I am a strong person. I raised my son alone, was the first one to get a degree in my family, plan on going to graduate school. I have overcome ptsd and depression. I continue to become more than I was yesterday. If I was not as strong as I am I would not have the type of Dom that I do, and he is one strong person too. He has overcome much in his life.. from life threatening and altering illnesses to changes in his economic circumstances that he managed to prosper despite them . I agree with LA, strong people make strong relationships.

Who is stronger? We have differing strengths. And I think this is what makes us well suited. I am not a submissive that expects my dominant to never show a weakness. He is a human being after all, but he is a very wise human being. I will say if a dominant was courting me and needed to see me as "weaker" than themselves... i would be looking for the clay feet on him.. but that is just me




myobedience -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/4/2007 11:15:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

i believe strong people can have a weakness. no fiercer warrior than achilles yet his heel was vulnerable. subs can be strong but there is always some weakness. not a bad or undesirable thing at all.but in accepting that weakness its like a yin yang kind of thing... a sub knows instinctively they need to be mastered and guided or they will run amok. what is sad sometimes is when a sub runs n2 a dom that is in fact weaker than them or tries to exploit them rather than guide and protect


The strongest amoung us knows their weaknesses and failings as well as they know the sun will rise.




myobedience -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/4/2007 11:20:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

the only real prerequisite 3 a sub is OBEDIENCE... the rest is personal taste


The true beauty of D/s to me is the obedience I freely give in exchange for his control and authority.




tulinwl -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/5/2007 1:44:23 AM)

quote:

The side of him I see is not one that anyone else ever will. To the rest of the waking world, he is a very confident, independant and occasionaly arrogant computer programmer.


DV - this hits home for me. To the outside world I am very similar, the overt confidence and arrogance too. In the privacy of a relationship, my power rests in the knowledge that I am giving myself willingly to another... 

Thank you!




tulinwl -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/5/2007 1:52:50 AM)

quote:

a dominant male who needs to control compassionately, confidently, with integrity and honor cannot turn off his own personality. It is 24/7 for him


I definitely agree with this. I can see how someone with the innate passion driving their control would need to keep "it on" at all times, and I should re-examine my needs (as mentioned also by Driver above:) 
quote:

In short what you are looking for is achievable and you apear to be looking for someone who is a Dominant in their realtime lifestyle


Thank you!




tulinwl -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/5/2007 1:55:41 AM)

quote:

I have control over everything, or at least try to, I need the chance to let someone take over in the relationship areana.


Relinquishing control is the attraction for me. My need to control everything around me in life drains the life out of me. I bring nourishment back into myself by giving to the needs of another, totally and without question. I have found this to be the most wonderful feeling.

Thank you !




NightWindWhisper -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/5/2007 7:19:13 PM)

Strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive (perhaps in a business sense) would all be positive attributes.  Lawyers and MD's enjoy giving up their dominant position, and these attributes can be strengths rather than weaknesses.




obey1 -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/5/2007 9:13:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Surrender and obedience have nothing to do with personality, in particular with meekness that is often associated with submissiveness. For example, look at our armed forces. How many soldiers, who obey order without question, are meek?

Master Fire



Master Fire, I do not normally call into question posts where I understand what someone means to say, but I wanted to offer you a very slight correction of terms.

Meek is not actually the best word here.  When a horse is "meeked" for example, it will follow orders without question.  You will find these horses in the old west, and in hollywood.  You can fire a gun very near their ear and they will not flinch or bolt.  Hopefully all soldiers are meek.  Otherwise they would get spooked in battle when there is utter chaos.  Meek could mean 'trained well' and also 'patient under injuries' as well as 'controlled strength'.  These too would be qualities very desirable of soldiers.

It is commonly confused with 'weak' but 'meek' is used in the bible to describe Moses, Jesus, and the people whom God will trust to inherit the earth....




Dnomyar -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/7/2007 12:27:15 PM)

If the meek follow orders how are they going to inherit the earth?  Never will happen.




AquaticSub -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/7/2007 1:20:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

i believe strong people can have a weakness. no fiercer warrior than achilles yet his heel was vulnerable. subs can be strong but there is always some weakness. not a bad or undesirable thing at all.but in accepting that weakness its like a yin yang kind of thing... a sub knows instinctively they need to be mastered and guided or they will run amok. what is sad sometimes is when a sub runs n2 a dom that is in fact weaker than them or tries to exploit them rather than guide and protect


I don't really need to be mastered... I do quite well on my own. I simply prefer it.




toservez -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/7/2007 1:34:24 PM)

If you need to feel stronger/superior to your submissive that is not dominance, that is low self esteem on your end and/or narcissism pure and simple.

As many have written all people have strength and weaknesses in their personalities and combined with beliefs from what nurture and nature has brought into the picture gives you complex combinations of weakness and strengths in many things. Good relationships these combinations fit.

One example might be like not wanting your submissive to have a career because you want them to be financially dependent(weaker) is unhealthy, while wanting them not to work because you believe that is the duty of the dominant is to me a solid reason.

Like LA said nicely, all healthy relationships take effort and the more “stronger” the people are the better chance the effort going into the relationship is a positive aspect and not a negative one. I would think it is much better and healthier to have a submissive who is strong and serves with this aspect willingly then have a submissive who is weak and therefore needing something specific and is maybe sacrificing something they would prefer not to in order to get it. One is there by choice the other is there by need.




dawntreader -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/8/2007 4:05:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

sorry, typo... i meant 4... is in " 4 a sub"


Glad you cleared that up! i am just getting where i can read your posts fluently and you throw a 3 in there and i am thinking "wtf does THAT mean?" !




dawntreader -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/8/2007 4:25:53 AM)

quote:

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another?


i only feel capable of answering this segment because i am this type submissive - quite possibly to a fault but in my opinion: Yes but  "sucessfully submitting to another" can be achieved even if a relationship is not successful, i have achieved this several times... if you are in touch with your submission, then "submitting" will be alot easier than finding a Dominant, they all can be strong but not all are strong enough~




Suleiman -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/9/2007 6:42:58 PM)

I not only like submissives who are strong-willed, I practically insist on it. My philosophy has always been, "What's the point in dominating a doormat?" I have found that this is not everyone's way of thinking, but a great many who sek a shrinking wallflower of a submissive (I hesitate to say all, since I am not omniscient) appear, in my mind, to be little better than abusers, predators, and bullies. Have an opinion, and defend it. Speak with respect, but if you know that you are right, stand up and say so. It is not ill-mannered to have an opinion, nor is it inappropriate for you to be honest. It is inappropriate to tell your dominus that you believe them to be an idiot, or to publicly argue with them or defy them. Manners are not weakness, nor is stupidity mannerly.




leathersmith -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/10/2007 6:56:27 AM)

Women are alot like cars and computers, the simple ones are not that much fun






Kana -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/10/2007 7:55:56 AM)

“If you need to feel stronger/superior to your submissive that is not dominance, that is low self esteem on your end and/or narcissism pure and simple.”

Exactly, I couldn’t agree more.
Why would I want someone serving me who doesn’t have a mind of her own? What challenge, or joy is there in owning a sycophant? How could I respect someone who is weak willed? I don’t need anyone to build my ego, its doing quite fine on its own, thank you very much.

It takes great strength to serve truly. To fly in the face of societal convention, to give of self at the deepest levels, to have sought inside and found that which satisfies and have the courage to actualize it is a rare thing in today’s world. To strip away self, examine the innermost levels of who and what you are as a person is the sign of one who has the courage of their convictions.

To answer the initial question, I stay away from submissives that are passive, weak, dependent and utterly compliant.




Kana -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/10/2007 7:58:08 AM)

Whoops, missed a comma, which can change everything.

Its always in the details.




firemuse -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/10/2007 8:56:25 AM)

OP - I too am exceptionally driven, aggressive, hard-headed, and feisty.  And, I am VERY naturally submissive.  But, only to a dominant man who has earned my respect.  I find domination to be such a gift, because it's almost the only time that I can just sit back, close my eyes, not have to be solving problems, putting out fires, taking care/charge...just let go, be free, just BE........

For me it's just such an intoxicating, relieving, refreshing feeling.  And the beauty is that both ends of the spectrum exist...that there are people who feel as much a craving to dominate, as we do to surrender complete control to them.

I took great pains to try to express this very clearly in my profile.  I think it's worked, from the email I receive.

I train dogs recreationally and my favourites have always been the ones that are feisty, hard-headed, stubborn.  They are harder to train but once you pull it off, they're so much more rewarding.  They keep me on my toes.  I've always called them 'firecrackers' and that's where my nick derives from.

I've found that as every submissive is different, so is every Dominant.  One of my most treasured teachers LOVED my independant, spirited nature and so encouraged me to never let D/s interfere with the life I've created.  I've spoken to others, who don't like these parts of my character - some, I've gotten the impression they're somewhat threatened (that's OK cuz I'm not well-matched to someone who wants a doormat), and others I think it's just preference.  I would probably be a nightmare for someone who wants 24/7 TPE or Gorean lifestyle and I tried to reflect that in my profile as well.

I think a distinction needs to be clear in your own mind though - between independance and related traits outside of your D/s relationship, and brattiness within the r'ship.  I am new to the lifestyle as well (but not to being submissive to my partners) so I'm only one small step ahead of you in knowledge/experience.  I do know though, that while a certain amount of brattiness may be 'fun' to some Dominants and seen as a form of flirtation, a challenge - to others, it's viewed as games and they will not deal with a sub that acts out for attention.  Myself, I wasn't clear in your post whether you meant brattiness towards a Dom, or just like myself, a personality that in general is not submissive to anyone BUT the one you're involved with.

I think the answer to your question isn't simple, as it depends on the person you're with.  I think you're like me - and are better off asking questions of people you are considering becoming involved with, trying to get a feel for what they want.  I've been up front with people who are into Gorean lifestyle or 24/7 TPE; I say I identify as a sub rather than a slave.  I am fully committed to submitting myself to someone worthy, but I do feel that I can do that without having to give up my career or free thought...in fact I wonder about someone who would want to control someone who is weak.  But that's JMO.

 
(editted for grammar)
 
fire

"Alienum est omne quicquid optando evenit"




sillygirl09 -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/10/2007 9:30:22 AM)

I don't "run amok" when I'm uncollared, however I find more security and balance in my life when I've been collared by the right individual.  And to answer the initial question, I'm extremely strong willed and independent I've never had a Dom or Master who didn't think that was a good thing.




smilingjaguar -> RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? (3/14/2007 12:12:38 AM)

Of course a sub can be all of those things.  There is only One that I serve.  Outside of him, I am a fiercely independent, strong, some say down right stubborn woman, and I am proud of it. I juggle work and children, one of whom has a chronic condition, and to deal with specialists and insurance companies you have to have a mean streak in you, ya know? ;)  Lacking confidence and/or strength simply isn't an option.

In Him, I have peace from my responsibilities but most importantly peace from that inner voice that is a most cruel perfectionist taskmaster.  I can be 100% in the moment and get the most astounding joy from pleasing Him.  I give myself to Him, and He quiets and comforts a mind that never rests. 




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