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RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/14/2007 7:50:39 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

Welcome tulinwl,

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

As you can see from the replies so far, there are Dominants who are attracted to strong submissives. Those Dominants are in the minority though. They are not as common as this thread seems to suggest. (notice few have piped up that they wouldn't want a strong sub!).

I would be wary of Doms who want to consider dominating someone a challenge. Not that there are not good Dominants who would enjoy that, just that there are too many who see a challenge as someone needing to be broken down. So be careful, take your time and learn the attitudes that make a Dominant truly strong enough to handle a strong submissive.

You also have to consider that no-one is either strong or weak. We are all a mixture of strengths and weaknesses. My slave, for example, has a very strong personality, she has prospered in a man's world; no easy task. Emotionally, she is fragile though. She needs a Master who can dominate her while still nursing the emotional hurts she has suffered.

So what this comes down to is some introspection on your part. What parts of your life are you stronger, and which parts are weaker. That will give you a better foundation as to what kind of Dominant will allow you to grow the most under their care.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 41

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/16/2007 4:46:46 PM

pearlmoongirl

Posts: 68
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline

For a long, long time, I did not think I was submissive, because - quite simply - I'm not a doormat. I have opinions and a pretty dry sense of humor when I get rolling. I have a strong will. I can be independent and self-sufficient, and often I have to be because of my chosen occupation.

But quite frankly, it doesn't make me happy when my submissive needs go unmet. Most surprising of all, when I've been in a vanilla relationship I have felt lonely and unsafe just for this reason - even when I've had freedom to be strong, assertive, and so on. (Boy was THAT a huge realization, and a scary one.)

So I guess the answer to your question is, yes, a sub can be all those things. I for one am living proof. Can a sub be happy, though, being all those things quite naturally without also submitting? I should think the answer to *that* is no, if somebody really is subby in his/her heart and soul.

~ pmg

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 42

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/17/2007 5:12:25 AM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

How strong, in what way, what kind of man are you looking for? See there is no right or wrong answer here. It all comes down to the two of you.

Some men like women who are challenging, who need to be taken down frequently. Others don't. To a man who likes that in a partner, someone who isn't like that might appear weak and not strong. To a man who doesn't like that, a woman who does is too aggressive. Neither are wrong or right, just incompatibility issues.

Don't worry about what the doms want, just figure out what you need for you to be happy. It's a lot easier to tell if you'll fit with someone once you know what you're looking for.

(in reply to freyjasdottir)

Post #: 43

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/17/2007 3:04:02 PM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

Strong does not have to mean challenging, there is a radical difference between the two.

(in reply to Celeste43)

Post #: 44

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/17/2007 4:00:01 PM

saphiradraca

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/21/2007
Status: offline

Yes, a strong person--male or female--can be submissive. Strength does not equal "unable to submit". Most of the submissives I've met in my life are emotionally and intellectually strong, dynamic men and women. Like them, I've had to be strong enough to get where I am in my life: to have the career I want, to have the relationships I want, to survive a rape. I'm not saying that I don't have my weaknesses--I do, just like everyone else. But it also takes a great deal of inner strength to acknowledge and admit to a desire and need to submit. If a Dom doesn't recognize that, he's not worth my time.

< Message edited by saphiradraca -- 3/17/2007 4:12:39 PM >

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 45

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/18/2007 5:26:28 AM

Elorin

Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obis
I don't see intelligence and strength as a challenge in a submissive, I see them as a prerequisite.

I have to agree. I won't take a sub without those traits.

~E

(in reply to obis)

Post #: 46

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/18/2007 7:29:21 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not?
Yes, I am all of these. This has nothing to do with submitting to another. These are personality traits. Being any of these or all doesn't mean one cannot submit.

Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

If those personality traits attacted you to that person why would you want to change that. Most doms want a person . I know my place and act according. Doesn't mean I lose my personality traits. I use them to serve Master. I think you have a bratty submissive in mind, when you say "challenge" . This to me isn't attractive and is just topping from the bottom. Which is a different topic all together.

Thanks

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 47

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/19/2007 11:57:49 AM

DeadStarzz

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

I have a question I am new to this and was wondering I am very strong willed,stuborn,hardheaded, and i have to have the lst word in always.Will I have to change everything about me to do this???

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 48

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/19/2007 12:21:31 PM

sweetnsensual

Posts: 61
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline

This thread definitely hits home for me. I consider myself strong, sometimes defiant (mostly to school administrators so far), opinionated, stubborn, sarcastic and a challenge just to get to know sometimes.

As SirDemonic mentioned, there are some Doms who find strong subs a challenge in the sense they need to be broken--a fear of mine. I've been told before the Doms that say I'm not a real submissive because I have these traits are, more or less, not strong enough to handle me. That's a little hard to believe because how can so many be wrong and an individual be right--but that's not the point.

I don't think there is one definite answer. I also don't think a person should have to change themselves drastically to get what they want. If a person is worried those qualities in themselves may hinder their search, then curb them a little in the right circumstances. Like when you're exchanging emails with someone on here, for example, show the person that you are strong but don't come on with that message too strong, if that makes sense (I know what I'm saying, people just might not know what I'm saying hehe). A person can be strong and all that but still submit--definitely.

Honestly, some Doms will be put off by a strong sub--for whatever reason. Some might say you're not a "true submissive" and maybe to THEM, you're not. Who cares? They're obviously not the person for you. Agree to disagree and keep going. Dom/me and sub are in the eye of the beholder, all subjective. Those words are defined by the person(s) involved and to hell with the rest of them.

Hope at least some of that was understandable.

(in reply to DeadStarzz)

Post #: 49

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/19/2007 2:21:32 PM

TABMaster

Posts: 15
Joined: 6/26/2006
Status: offline

I find the submission of a Strong assertive submissive one of the most enjoyable gifts they have. Their submission is something that they choose to give and when the submissive is one who in the rest of their life is Strong and assertive, the submission can be equally as deep. My wife/submissive/slave is like that. She has a high powered job and is very assertive and Strong at work and in fact many areas of her life. Her submission is so deep and complete that it is an awesome thing to experience. In the beginning she had many issues with her submission and it took all I could muster to hang in there and be supportive of her. Over time she has learned that through her submission she is actually able to be a stronger person in the rest of her life. Kind of a paradox in a way, submission equals power and strength. She had to learn how to extend her submission in the beginning, some had even said she was a switch or that she topped from the bottom. In her case she just had developed so much armor over her life that as soon as she felt a little out of control her survival instinct kicked in and she would "pop" right out of her sub space. I have worked with her on this and she is able to extend her time in subspace substantially more now. She still struggles with that, but it is improving all the time. I am very proud of my wife/submissive/slave!

Every Dom is different in what they want and like in a sub/slave. Just as every sub/slave is different in what they need in a Dom. So, I personally think a strong sub/slave is not just good, but as tony the tiger says "they are GREAT!"

Enjoy your submission and good luck in finding the right match in a Dom.

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 50

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/19/2007 6:12:12 PM

VeryMercurial

Posts: 620
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

I agree with what you said SirDominic, notice that NOT that many Dominant's
have even replied here.

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 51

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/19/2007 8:12:41 PM

DaddyDomNV

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

I might add that the strong submissive is not only possible but is desired by most old guard. There is a dififference between Real Doms and internet doms. If you have you would like to discuss this furher feel free to communicate with me either here or at nv_dom at yahoooooo mes

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 52

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/19/2007 10:58:45 PM

smilingjaguar

Posts: 271
Status: offline

I wonder why a strong sub is equated with a bratty sub? Just because I don't take jack off of anybody else on earth doesn't mean I can't pick someone and be wholly his. Granted, it made me far pickier as to who I wanted to serve, but it did not change the need...

(in reply to DaddyDomNV)

Post #: 53

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/20/2007 8:27:32 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnsensual

This thread definitely hits home for me. I consider myself strong, sometimes defiant (mostly to school administrators so far), opinionated, stubborn, sarcastic and a challenge just to get to know sometimes.

As SirDemonic mentioned, there are some Doms who find strong subs a challenge in the sense they need to be broken--a fear of mine. I've been told before the Doms that say I'm not a real submissive because I have these traits are, more or less, not strong enough to handle me.

There is nothing wrong with your qualities. And you should fear the dom who thinks domination equals a need for the sub to be broken. No good Dom works this way (unless they mate up with a sub who truly wants to be broken). Breaking someone down is not domination, it is someone's idea of how to dominate who isn't dominant.

quote:

Some might say you're not a "true submissive" and maybe to THEM, you're not. Who cares?

Everyone should care, actually. Any time a supposed dom tries to use the "you're not a true submissive" card is blowing smoke out their ears. It's not that to them maybe you are not. It's that they are not strong enough to dominate you, and are trying to compensate with a guilt trip. No Dom who is truly strong, confident in his abilities would ever stoop to the "you're not a true submissive" accusation. Whenever you hear it from someone, that is the signal they are not up to the challenge.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to sweetnsensual)

Post #: 54

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/20/2007 5:55:18 PM

apettiger

Posts: 131
Joined: 1/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freyjasdottir

I can be very aggressive, very strong willed, stubborn, the whole nine yards. In fact some of my RT friends and co-workers can't see me as a submissive since I try to keep such a tight rein on the majority of my life. But, that is the point, I have control over everything, or at least try to, I need the chance to let someone take over in the relationship areana.

ditto

_____________________________

378-828-272

(in reply to freyjasdottir)

Post #: 55

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/20/2007 8:13:40 PM

Psion

Posts: 4
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: Detroit
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tulinwl

I am very new to this lifestyle and am currently digesting everything I can to learn more. This is in fact my very first post on this website. My questions are simple yet I hope they spark some lively discussion to help me understand.

Can a sub be strong, independent, individualistic, assertive/aggressive AND still successfully submit to another? Why or why not? Do Doms stay away from subs wired like this, or do some find this attractive and enticing? Would a Dom consider this to be a challenge?

Thanks

From my experience, one can be a sub only in the sack, yet be equally strong in personality as the dom after play time is over. And there are those who just want to be tied up and used, and that's it. but then there are those who aren't as strong, and willing to be shapped in whatever way possible. But to me, those subs are still strong as they have to trust the person that is shapping them. And then there are those subs who are strong in a psychial sense, as I would like them to be so they don't rip arms out of sockets on a suspension device.

_____________________________

Sometimes, a cigar is only a cigar.

(in reply to tulinwl)

Post #: 56

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/21/2007 7:48:11 AM

ONEDEMANDINGMSTR

Posts: 47
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline

This is a age-old question. I, Myself, as a Dom seek and desire women who are secure in themselves and desirous of the lifestyle. A woman who has experienced the world in a professional position, or managing a household, and succeeded ,has so much to offer as opposed to those who are just beginning, and still feeling their way into the 'real world'.
The 'doormat' holds no attraction for Me. She can easily find a wannabe to take her on as she flits from one to another. A woman that has proven to herself, that she is more than just self-sufficient has proven it to others as well. She is one who has the 'gift' to offer.
Her need for a Dom is not couched in terms of Him being a buffer to the real world, but rather, in terms of someone with whom she can 'let go' without reprisal or retribution. Someone who treats her with respect, trust and honesty........not as a user, providing kinky sex and humiliation, in exchange for an uncomfortable 'arrangement' that's not mutually satisfactory, except on a temporary basis.
Strong women abound in this world. It's My choice to seek them out . I never try to 'break' them , as some have suggested.
Rather, I prefer to act as a catalyst to allow them to revel in their femininity and submissive tendencies. I am constantly learning about a submissive and as a consequence, I require continual feedback and conversation. Intelligence and humor are traits to be prized rather than ignored, or bypassed.

(in reply to Psion)

Post #: 57

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/21/2007 8:10:30 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

WE tend to seek strong submissive women with a mind and some fire in their eyes.They seem to fit in better here.Not doormats,not broken in sprite or timid little things but ones that go beyond the call of duty in their service to us..WE expect the very best of those that serve,ones that can step up when we aren"t around and take charge of situations that may arise in our business or home.WE aren't the average owners so therefore an average girl just won't do...bounty

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to ONEDEMANDINGMSTR)

Post #: 58

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/21/2007 8:20:22 AM

dawntreader

Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeadStarzz

I have a question I am new to this and was wondering I am very strong willed,stuborn,hardheaded, and i have to have the lst word in always.Will I have to change everything about me to do this???

i can only say if you must always have the last word in a discussion or argument - i would contemplate on why that is...in the dynamics of D/s and M/s, that is not a desirable trait.

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to DeadStarzz)

Post #: 59

RE: A strong sub - good/bad/indifferent? - 3/21/2007 3:05:41 PM

tulinwl

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/4/2007
Status: offline

Thank you very much SirDominic. I am questioning myself on a daily basis - do I really want to submit, or do I want to challenge others to dominate me. I am so new to this that I need to reflect on my own motivations.

Again - thank you. you have provided me an insight into my own motivations and I need to question them further,

Enjoy life... :)

(in reply to SirDominic)

Post #: 60

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