RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA

RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (Full Version)

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BeachMystress -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 8:03:35 AM)
Thanks. I know I sound naive, but I've not been around that type of stuff and had no clue.

WayHome -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 8:45:28 AM)
Sounds like prostitution to me. I think prostitution should be legal (and regulated) but since it's not, how is this sort of service any different? If taking money for intercourse, blowjobs, and handjbs is illegal then why should strapons, clips, and whips be any different? If the guys pay to have orgasms then it seems like prostitution. I'd rather give my money to the ACLU. Leto

PAULG1BD -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 5:08:46 PM)
I can't believe what many of you have written here about the situation Sandra (Maitresse S) has found herself in, and the lack of support, never mind financial support, but even verbal support, from most of the people who have written comments about this issue. First, I believe even Bedford Hills (where the arrest happened) is still in the United States, where the law is written that you're innocent until proven guilty. It sounds like most of you have forgotten that, and most of you have either seen the TV or newspaper stories and taken them as totally factual and 100% truthful. Without going into any specifics, I will tell you that it's just not true, most reports aren't even close to factual. I'm a very good friend of Sandra, and knowing her as well as I do, I can guarantee you that the charges of prostitution are absolutily false. She's a well respected, lifestyle, professional Mistress, who would never even consider crossing the line between LEGAL BDSM play, and illegal acts. Isn't this site here to allow people in the BDSM lifestyle talk, meet, exchange thoughts with others in the same lifestyle? I thought it was, but I seem to be wrong. It looks like most of you who have written comments think that the police NEVER do aanything wrong, and never stretch the facts to get the results they want, and that Sandra must be guilty. It also seems that you believe everything written about the house she was renting, and that she's just rolling in money because that's what the reports said, or if that isn't the case, too bad, she got herself in this situation. I guess none of the professionaal Dommes here can imagine finding themselves in the same situation because someone else in the lifestyle had a problem with you, and sent an unsigned letter to the police. And since you never do anything that is considered illegal, you're 100% safe, since the police would never twist things so it seems that you're in the wrong. It shocks me that the comments written here come from people in this lifestyle that I've always thought of as more open minded and more accepting of diversified enjoyments. I hope none of you ever find yourself in the same type of situation, being forced to move, not work at your legal proffession, you, your entire family, your friends, harrassed and hounded, and without any means of income while your legal bills grow higher and higher just so you can defend yourself against baseless charges brought up against you just so they can get you out of the neighborhood. Must be nice to be as perfect as many of you seem to be. Paul G

mnottertail -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 6:39:23 PM)
I notice that the supporters of the financial scam admire the all caps stuff alot, is that an after effect of the mace or the tazers? Now insofar as supporting the community, there have been a couple people out here with their first post being throw me some lawyers, guns and money and what about the brotherhood and why aren't we locking arms and singing kumbaya? And there ain't a goddamn finger counts worth of posts between 'em. Yeah, we all get fucked. your just a little story in a lot of big city....... Write this down--- NO FUCKING BODY COMES TO JESUS ON PROM NIGHT, and when they think their shit don't stink, their farts give them away constantly. Ron do any of you have any news articles where she went out and offered soup or blowjobs to the poor and homeless? Jesus, give me a reason to believe, you know?

PAULG1BD -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 7:10:10 PM)
I keep reading your reply, and can't figure out exactly what point you're trying to make, but I'll take a guess and say that you think the support fund might be a scam, and/or that one should never put themselves in a position to need or ask for help from others. You know what? If that's your take on things, that's fine, to each his or her own. The original poster of this thread, and my post wasn't intended to tell people they should donate to help Sandra if they don't want to for whatever reason, but was intended to make people aware of the issue, and if they understood that if it happened to Sandra, it could happen to just about anyone, and it provided the information and link to help her out if they wanted to. What upsets me so much isn't that people don't want to donate for whatever reason they have, but is because a large majority of the posts here about this story seem to show that people believe 100% what they see and read in the media, and that many here make the assumption that because she was charged with something, she's guilty of it. She's not, no way, no how. If you don't agree about making a donation, then don't. But to see the amount of negative posts about Sandra and her situation is mean, cruel, and uncalled for from people who are supposed to be more open minded and less judgemental than the "normal" main stream groups. Paul G

FreshBread -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 7:35:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NYDOMINATRIX PLEASE GO HERE TO GET FURTHER INFO AND TO HELP MISTRESS SANDRA IN HER LEGAL DEFENSE. ALL ALLEGATIONS WERE FALSE. http://newyorkdominatrix.com/whatsnew/legalfundmsandra.html I'll be sending a substantial check as soon as I'm done not giving shit.....

Misstoyou -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/12/2007 8:26:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD I can't believe what many of you have written here about the situation Sandra (Maitresse S) has found herself in... Thank you for providing her CM nic, as I didn't know who was being discussed. I was surprised, though, that her profile did not mention being a professional Dominatrix.

MsSonnetMarwood -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/13/2007 3:41:17 AM)
quote: my post wasn't intended to tell people they should donate to help Sandra if they don't want to for whatever reason, but was intended to make people aware of the issue, and if they understood that if it happened to Sandra, it could happen to just about anyone Paul G The flip side is that someone who starts up a business knowing that it's marginally legal at best should not go into that business if they're not willing to deal with the possible consequences of dancing around the legalities. I'm certainly not anti-prodomme; I think there are some wonderful ones out there. But it is a business that has it's legal complications and issues - for better or for worse, that's how the laws currently are. Setting up business in a posh neighborhood isn't a particularly good idea, because neighbors tend to be very nosy and frankly aren't going to take kindy to the lady next door beating people for a living - right or wrong, I think we ALL know what the perception of that is going to be.

TNstepsout -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/13/2007 5:28:08 AM)
quote: If you don't agree about making a donation, then don't. But to see the amount of negative posts about Sandra and her situation is mean, cruel, and uncalled for from people who are supposed to be more open minded and less judgemental than the "normal" main stream groups. Paul G The problem with the OP and with your posts is that you adamantly state that she is innocent, but neither of you give any of us any way to judge that for ourselves. Simply repeating over and over again "she was railroaded" does not consititute a defense. The police say she offered a sexual act for money, but what was it? Was it something the police construed as a sex act, but isn't really? What the heck actually happened here? The stories available offer little in the way of details, and neither do you or the OP. With so little to go on there is no way I'd send money. If you want to help your Mistress you're going to have to cough up a little more information.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/13/2007 5:41:15 AM)
The reason that there was no support for poor Sandra is because she has nothing to actualy do with the posts. Has she chimed in in her own defense? No. Why should we send our good wishes through someone else who wasnt eveen good enough to proide us with anything but a cleaned upp version of the story of what happened? We are all involved in the lifestyle and understand the rsks involved, legally as well as healthwise. If you cross a boundary then you are held responsible for it. Why should we as a community offer to assist someone who has done what even the majority of pros on this site know better than to do. Getting behind someone who may have recieved money and broken laws does not shed a better light on our community becasue of our solidarity. If Sandra is innocent, then she will have to worry about her legal defense on her own. I for one do not see where asking the community to assist in her legal costs is anywhere near appropriate. If she caught an STD from a client, would she ask for medical asistance from the community? Same difference, you are responsible for your own actions. Right or wrong, rightly or wrongly accused... If she is innocent, I wish her luck, if she is not, I hope she pays her proper dues to society and learns her lesson. Either way, my dime will not be assisting in the outcome. DV

bschwimmer -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/13/2007 3:06:00 PM)
well i wish her the best and hope it works out. I think she was ratted out by her onetime partner and payback will be a bitch for her

PAULG1BD -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/14/2007 6:21:25 AM)
Hi, I understand that it would be better to provide details about what exactly happened, and what was discussed with the undercover officer (talking about a future session, they didn't session, just talked), and I've love to be able to write the whole story out here. But the case is in the courts, and providing any specific details here on the Internet, is against her lawyers wishes, and won't be too smart either. Sandra would also like to be able to tell everyone her side of the story also, but is under orders not to talk about the case in any way. I'll say this, your comment about what might have happened is a pretty intelligent one. Paul G

SubmissiveOphelia -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/14/2007 6:39:49 PM)
A lot of Pro Dommes engage in prostitution. I don't care what they say or about the rebuttals: STRAP ON IS PROSTITUTION. Like it or not it is. Insertions, HJ's ect are prostitution. Cops bust if you do something or offer something illegal. If you don't want to risk being busted, then don't engage in prostitution. Simple as that.

BeachMystress -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 3:51:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout Simply repeating over and over again "she was railroaded" does not consititute a defense. The police say she offered a sexual act for money, but what was it? Was it something the police construed as a sex act, but isn't really? What the heck actually happened here? That has been my big question all along. What is the act in question? I stated in an earlier post that "I can not imagine any upper class Dominatrix making this mistake!" The women I know who have their own Houses or Dungeons had lawyers go over their business model before they first client got anywhere near the doors. In any case, I am sure that the police recorded the "transaction" and it will show what was and wasn't offered. As I will not be present at the trial, I'll have to trust the findings of the jury as to her guilt or innocence. quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD the law is written that you're innocent until proven guilty. It sounds like most of you have forgotten that, I'm really not sure how this is germane to this thread. We are not a court of law, but a message board of personal opinions. (If I were the snarky type, I'd point out that you seem to have forgotten that..) Your friend's friend opened the can of worms by asking for donations to your friend's cause. You are on a site where people hold strong opinions and are not afraid to express them. Of course the solicitation will be discussed and not all of that will be in your friend's favor. The beauty of freedom of speech and message boards is that you got to come here and rant also. You had the opportunity to state your feelings and opinions just like everyone else. quote: ORIGINAL: Misstoyou quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD I can't believe what many of you have written here about the situation Sandra (MaitresseS) has found herself in... Thank you for providing her CM nic, as I didn't know who was being discussed. I was surprised, though, that her profile did not mention being a professional Dominatrix. Now THAT is a real problem for me and speaks to me more of this woman's character than her arrest by the police! We can agree that we don't have enough facts in the legal case to judge her guilt or innocence, but her profile is there for any to read. The couple of Dominatrix I know with a house/dungeon always follow the convention of being very clear about who and what they are in any forum. They are straight forward, up front and do not "flirt" with letting the client get the wrong idea about them. I agree with their stance that someone who is a pro should clearly state it on their profile. (No, I do not buy that she is on this site looking for personal/non pro-client subs. Someone with a struggling business does not give away product for free!) Not one thing in her entire profile quote: I'm an attractive, elegant, intelligent Dominant woman, who expresses her dominance with grace, femininity,power and sensuality. I pursue experiences where I have the opportunity to arouse my senses, engage my intellect,broaden my comprehension of the possibilities not yet exhausted, as well as simply doing the things I love to do. hints that she is looking for a business relationship rather than a personal one! Male subs on this site have it hard enough without dealing with pros who omit the teeny lil fact of payment required on their profile! If anything, that is the first thing I've seen that makes me wonder if she perhaps cut corners or didn't follow convention in other facets. I guess we'll hear the facts as the trial progresses.

LotusSong -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 11:08:49 AM)
Paul, While your post is very heart wrenching and chastising.. the fact remains: She made her choices in life..and she chose a profession that involves risk and vanilla interpretation. Pass on my condolences to her and a hope for better choices in the future. It must suck to be her. It makes me wonder what client she pissed off?

PAULG1BD -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 2:02:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeachMystress quote: ORIGINAL: TNstepsout Simply repeating over and over again "she was railroaded" does not consititute a defense. The police say she offered a sexual act for money, but what was it? Was it something the police construed as a sex act, but isn't really? What the heck actually happened here? That has been my big question all along. What is the act in question? I stated in an earlier post that "I can not imagine any upper class Dominatrix making this mistake!" The women I know who have their own Houses or Dungeons had lawyers go over their business model before they first client got anywhere near the doors. In any case, I am sure that the police recorded the "transaction" and it will show what was and wasn't offered. As I will not be present at the trial, I'll have to trust the findings of the jury as to her guilt or innocence. quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD the law is written that you're innocent until proven guilty. It sounds like most of you have forgotten that, I'm really not sure how this is germane to this thread. We are not a court of law, but a message board of personal opinions. (If I were the snarky type, I'd point out that you seem to have forgotten that..) Your friend's friend opened the can of worms by asking for donations to your friend's cause. You are on a site where people hold strong opinions and are not afraid to express them. Of course the solicitation will be discussed and not all of that will be in your friend's favor. The beauty of freedom of speech and message boards is that you got to come here and rant also. You had the opportunity to state your feelings and opinions just like everyone else. quote: ORIGINAL: Misstoyou quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD I can't believe what many of you have written here about the situation Sandra (MaitresseS) has found herself in... Thank you for providing her CM nic, as I didn't know who was being discussed. I was surprised, though, that her profile did not mention being a professional Dominatrix. Now THAT is a real problem for me and speaks to me more of this woman's character than her arrest by the police! We can agree that we don't have enough facts in the legal case to judge her guilt or innocence, but her profile is there for any to read. The couple of Dominatrix I know with a house/dungeon always follow the convention of being very clear about who and what they are in any forum. They are straight forward, up front and do not "flirt" with letting the client get the wrong idea about them. I agree with their stance that someone who is a pro should clearly state it on their profile. (No, I do not buy that she is on this site looking for personal/non pro-client subs. Someone with a struggling business does not give away product for free!) Not one thing in her entire profile quote: I'm an attractive, elegant, intelligent Dominant woman, who expresses her dominance with grace, femininity,power and sensuality. I pursue experiences where I have the opportunity to arouse my senses, engage my intellect,broaden my comprehension of the possibilities not yet exhausted, as well as simply doing the things I love to do. hints that she is looking for a business relationship rather than a personal one! Male subs on this site have it hard enough without dealing with pros who omit the teeny lil fact of payment required on their profile! If anything, that is the first thing I've seen that makes me wonder if she perhaps cut corners or didn't follow convention in other facets. I guess we'll hear the facts as the trial progresses. I can see your point that this profile of her from this site doesn't mention being a pro domme. That's because this wasn't her profile for the business that she had on this site. She had a complete profile under the name "The Sovereign Estate" that was complete and for her pro domme business. It was removed the day after the arrest for legal reasons and privacy reasons since the TV and newspapers where printing the profile and pictures from it all over the place. Paul

PAULG1BD -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 2:07:05 PM)
It wasn't a client, it was another person in the profession that sent the police the unsigned letter I think. But I can't say that for sure, just an educated guess. I doubt we'll ever know 100% who sent it.

mnottertail -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 5:51:57 PM)
Dum, dum dum dum--- in the city and the county of los angeles Sgt Friday---(the judge asks) what have you for proof? Sgt Friday: sucks on the temple of his glasses--- YOU KNOW, thats what is wrong with all you kids that smoke cigarettes and dope and beer and this here shit You always ask me--- Why?Why?Why? Joe Gannon

BeachMystress -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 5:52:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD I can see your point that this profile of her from this site doesn't mention being a pro domme. That's because this wasn't her profile for the business that she had on this site. She had a complete profile under the name "The Sovereign Estate" that was complete and for her pro domme business. It was removed the day after the arrest for legal reasons and privacy reasons since the TV and newspapers where printing the profile and pictures from it all over the place. Paul quote: ORIGINAL: BeachMystress (No, I do not buy that she is on this site looking for personal/non pro-client subs. Someone with a struggling business does not give away product for free!) Even if it isn't a profile for the establishment, it is still the profile of a woman who is only interested in meeting subs as clients. I feel that should be made clear to them up front so as not to leave men feeling as if they have been "cheated" by spending time writing a woman who isn't looking for an intimate relationship. I'd be as quick to believe that one of them turned her in to the police after finding out she was the same as Sovereign Estates as I would be to believe it was someone in the local scene. I've met some submales who were bitter enough after such an encounter to do something as damaging as getting a legal case started. I've heard tales from subs (I can not verify most of them, because I do not know the pro they claim to have "taught a lesson" and have never been able to find a news account of any of the stories.) who feel they were tricked this way claiming they: setting up meetings and then vandalizing the pros property. spent hours submitting the pro's email address to every spam site they could find. searched property and rental records to find out the pro's real name and outed her to friends and family. used the pros license plate number to track her to her home and scare her. went ahead with the pro scene and then claimed assault. (This one I know is real. The pro in question is someone I know slightly. She was arrested and had to deal with a lot of legal stuff. Because he had signed a consent form, they finally decided not to charge her. She still almost lost her children over the mess. CPS gave her grief for a very long time afterwards.) This is a subject that engenders strong feelings in men. They've already made themselves vulnerable by even contacting the woman. That venerability can cause some to react quite badly when things are not as they assumed from the profile.

Kalyndrah -> RE: SOVEREIGN ESTATE MISTRESS SANDRA (3/15/2007 6:05:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PAULG1BD I keep reading your reply, and can't figure out exactly what point you're trying to make, but I'll take a guess and say that you think the support fund might be a scam, and/or that one should never put themselves in a position to need or ask for help from others. You know what? If that's your take on things, that's fine, to each his or her own. The original poster of this thread, and my post wasn't intended to tell people they should donate to help Sandra if they don't want to for whatever reason, but was intended to make people aware of the issue, and if they understood that if it happened to Sandra, it could happen to just about anyone, and it provided the information and link to help her out if they wanted to. What upsets me so much isn't that people don't want to donate for whatever reason they have, but is because a large majority of the posts here about this story seem to show that people believe 100% what they see and read in the media, and that many here make the assumption that because she was charged with something, she's guilty of it. She's not, no way, no how. If you don't agree about making a donation, then don't. But to see the amount of negative posts about Sandra and her situation is mean, cruel, and uncalled for from people who are supposed to be more open minded and less judgemental than the "normal" main stream groups. Paul G I can't help it. I just can't keep it in any longer. If I were to be a promoter of the innocent Mistress Sandra, would she be willing, as a fellow member of the community, to assist me in paying my bills when I allowed a Dom to fool me into supporting him and now I'm behind and have termination notices on all of my utilities, my phone is partially suspended, and I'm about to be kicked out of m house? Or maybe if there's something leftover from her legal fund, it could be distributed to kinksters in need. Now that, I could get behind. Establishing a general legal fund for things like this and having procedures to apply for the need. Maybe "If you donated, you get a vote" and have the person post their story and backup documents in a forum where people could vote. You get a bigger Yes, you get the $$. But saying that we're mean because we're skeptical based upon the information we've been given.... well that's just silly. If she is innocent, provide more proof and detail. If you can't provide more proof and detail, then you shouldn't be asking for help in a public forum. The law says we're innocent until proven guilty. Life says we're guilty until proven innocent. That's just human nature. Establish a legal fund for ALL kinksters in need with some sort of screening process and I'll contribute all of my spare change... as that's pretty much all I have leftover after bills & food. Legal help for one specific person i know nothing about and am unable to obtain all of the facts regarding their case... no. =) See? I'm not mean. Skeptical. Wary. But not mean.

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