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'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 8:55:04 PM   
puella


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I am intrigued by those who put 'Victorian households' on their preference lists.  Do you really know what the concept of Victorian sexuality was? Or are you going on a fantasy about what you think that meant.. corsets, high protocol and the ideas you find in Harlequin romances?

British doctor William Acton, "There is so much ignorance on the subject, and so many false ideas are current as to women’s sexual condition, and are so productive of mischief, that I need offer no apology for giving here a plain statement that most medical men will corroborate.
     I have taken pains to obtain and compare abundant evidence on this subject, and the result of my inquiries I may briefly epitomise as follows: - I should say that the majority of women (happily for society) are not very much troubled with sexual feeling of any kind.  What men are habitually, women are only exceptionally.  It is too true, I admit, as the Divorce Court shows, that there are some few women who have sexual desires so strong that they surpass those of men, and shock public feeling by their consequences.  I admit, of course, the existence of sexual excitement terminating even in nymphomania, a form of insanity that those accustomed to visit lunatic asylums must be fully conversant with; but, with these sad exceptions, there can be no doubt that sexual feeling in the female is in the majority of cases in abeyance, and that it requires positive and considerable excitement to be roused at all; and even if roused (which in many instances it never can be) it is very moderate compared with that of the male . . . .
     I am ready to maintain that there are many females who never feel any sexual excitement whatever.  Others, again, immediately after each period, do become, to a limited degree, capable of experiencing it; but this capacity is often temporary, and may entirely cease till the next menstrual period.  Many of the best mothers, wives, and managers of households, know little of or are careless about sexual indulgences.  Love of home, of children, and of domestic duties are the only passions they feel. *
     As a general rule, a modest woman seldom desires any sexual gratification for herself.  She submits to her husband’s embraces, but principally to gratify him; and, were it not for the desire of maternity, would far rather be relieved from his attentions.  No nervous or feeble young man need, therefore, be deterred from marriage by any exaggerated notion of the arduous duties required from him.  Let him be well assured, on my authority backed by the opinion of many, that the married woman has no wish to be placed on the footing of a mistress . . . ."

Eliza Duffey What Women Should Know (1873): "the passions of men are much stronger and more easily inflamed" than those of women. "the purity of women is the everlasting barrier against which the tides of man's sensual nature surge." 
 
These are the actualities of Victorian sexuality... how does it fit in with what you put on your preference list?

< Message edited by puella -- 3/10/2007 9:00:53 PM >
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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:00:40 PM   
bayboundse


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Yes but Victorian society was also known for Mistresses, Prostitution, and kink..just outside of the home life of the man. I think many on these web pages think of Victtorian Households more like a 50's household with the man haveing even more control and freedome and the woman having less, not the wife to have almost no interest in sex other than to have children.
Of course one of the biggest fantasies of this period was of the raped virgin who finds she loves sex and can not get enough. Truly a period of contridictions.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:02:39 PM   
puella


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The paid mistress was not a part of the Victorian household. She was not even allowed within the confines of society.  I understand what you are saying, but it goes back to the very nature of my question.  Do those who list 'victorian household' on their profile even know what that means?

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:09:27 PM   
MasterNdorei


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i think listing a Victorian Household is like listing most any aspect of the lifestyle that we prefer. We like only the part of the whip that pleases us, not the part that can peel off our skin. We like the part of being enslaved that works for us, and not the parts that exploited people in the past. There is a lot about the Victorian era that was explosive passion. This is one reason so many romance novels chose that time period.

Just some thoughts~*
Master's dorei

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:15:40 PM   
SilverShadows


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I put it on my profile as the way I like to handle servants.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:16:02 PM   
puella


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Actually , there is nothing about the Victorian household which either endorsed or allowed explosive passion, which is what has prompted my query.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:18:22 PM   
SilverShadows


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And yes I am quite familar with what the true Victorian household was like. I am quite a collector of paper memorbilia form that era. Your question is like asking do people really know what slavery is like. The real thing, which still exists, if not very pleasant.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 9:37:47 PM   
puella


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Paper memorabilia has nothing at all to do with it.  People are subscribing to a fantasy without, I am guessing, any knowledge (which is readily available if you are willing to take the time to educate yourself) for enlightenment. 

I am assuming that those who have 'Victorian Household" on their profile fall into one of two categories:

Those who understand what that really meant and subscribe to those obligations

Those who never bothered to educate themselves on what the term really means and selected it as a product of misinformation.

As a dominant woman, I find your subscription to the concept more than a bit intriguing.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 10:10:39 PM   
Archer


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I would contend that the idea is more one of the D/s nature of a Victorian Houshold than any sexual matter.
We as a community often split out D/s from the BDSM why not split it out from the sex as well?
Again cafeteria style Give me the power of the male head of household and the sex not between the husband and wife but between the husband and the maids maybe. and toss in a bit of this from this period and that from this other period.

But generally I think the idea is to select not the entire sexual morals of the period but rather the structure of power.
Victorian structure with modern sexual morals, and why not?

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 10:50:52 PM   
MasterNdorei


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Puella,

The fact that it was not allowed nor endorsed no doubt made it all the more explosive when it did happen.

You may buy into what it was perceived to be, by the prim and proper soceity of the time, but that is seldom the entire story of everyone's reality.

Churches are a great modern day example of this theory. Sure they are religious places, where things are supposed to be a certain way, and though you may have piles of documentation telling what they are like, i can give you many examples of what is really going on...

There is always more than one side to a coin...
Master's dorei

< Message edited by MasterNdorei -- 3/10/2007 10:52:30 PM >

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/10/2007 11:12:46 PM   
SilverShadows


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I take what I like and leave the rest. It's as much about what the Victorians did as Slavery has to do with what the Roman's our Southern Plantation owners did. I am the mistress of my own home and woe the male Dom who thinks he is going to change that.

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The Countess

Το αίμα είναι η ζωή
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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 4:30:43 AM   
puella


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Hello Archer,

I understand what you are saying, but the concept of the disempowered woman  is not at all a concept that is exclusive or even specific to the Victorian era or household.  Even the concepts of the 'good' mother/wife figure are not.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 4:34:54 AM   
puella


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Well, I think everyone should take what they need to build their own life. However... putting a victorian end table in my living room doesn't mean I have a Victorian parlor, knowing the Apostles creed, doesn't make me a Catholic, etc etc... if you get my drift?  That actually really just adds to my confusion about the tag 'Victorian Household'.  If you understand and know what that really entails, and only one or two stylized or specific elements to your lifestyle, which otherwise has absolutely nothing in common with the Victorian house hold, I would guess you are not really lifing in a Victorian household... you just stuck an antique in your living room.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 4:38:55 AM   
puella


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Ndorei,

I have very personal experience of a modern church, having lived in a convent as a Sister of Mercy for four years, though I hate to debunk all the masturbatory fantasies this supplies for so many, it is one of the most non sexual places in which I have ever spent time.  Contrary to popular fantasy, a convent is not a hot house for illicit girl on girl lovin.  I have a pet theory that it is easier (I am not saying it is right or more natural, mind you) for women to sublimate their sexuality and channel it out in other, non sexual ways, than men.

Sorry to disappoint!  hehe

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 4:40:04 AM   
puella


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Also... I have no idea why I suddenly fixated on that particular option on the profiles to such a degree, hehehehe

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 4:43:41 AM   
TheHousehold


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I suppose she also expects us to be riding around in horse-drawn carriages and eschewing the use of computers, which are a long way off being invented yet.

It is a lifeSTYLE, not a LIFE.  We draw from it those aspects that suit us, and leave behind those that don't.  If a woman is frigid and sexually repressed, then I'm not going to admit her to my Household in the first place.  I seek the power structures and the boundaries, and the thrill of crossing those boundaries.

You don't like my chosen lifestyle?  Fine: move on.  Live your own life your own way.  Sheesh...  Next she's going to be criticising the Goreans for not ACTUALLY travelling to a mirror-image Earth.

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 4:52:46 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Well, I think everyone should take what they need to build their own life. However... putting a victorian end table in my living room doesn't mean I have a Victorian parlor, knowing the Apostles creed, doesn't make me a Catholic, etc etc... if you get my drift?  That actually really just adds to my confusion about the tag 'Victorian Household'.  If you understand and know what that really entails, and only one or two stylized or specific elements to your lifestyle, which otherwise has absolutely nothing in common with the Victorian house hold, I would guess you are not really lifing in a Victorian household... you just stuck an antique in your living room.



How is someone "gor" if they live on Earth?  Are you really OG if you're not 50+ and gay?  Even if you have a Victorian parlor down to the last detail...is it really a Victorian parlor because it's 2007?

I've been interested in the Victorian era for as long as I can remember, and enjoy incorporating practical aspects of it into my life when possible.   I'm not interested in walking around in corsets and long skirts, but I do enjoy hosting a tea for my friends, occasionally training subs in a servant role, etc.   Would it make you feel more comfortable to call it "Victorian-inspired"?  LOL

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 5:06:53 AM   
puella


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Woah, hold the fort, folks

I am not crucifying anyone's lifestyle, so calm it.

I am asking, if one truly understands what the Victorian household was in reality, how do they apply that in their life, and if they only (using my previous metaphor) stick an end table in their living room... is that really a Victorian household?

As for the Gorean reference... I am no expert and you would do better to ask the Goreans that question, but I will take a stab at it.  There are people who pretend to live in the trappings of a fictional planet.  Those people have very little in common with the people who have distilled the philosophy presented in the context of those novels to their actual lives (don't forget, John Lange is a modern philosopher..though in my opinion, not the best fiction writer). 


< Message edited by puella -- 3/11/2007 5:16:58 AM >

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 5:14:25 AM   
puella


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I am not in the least uncomfortable in anything that you choose to do MsSonnetMarwood, as it has no impact on my life.

However, I too host teas, I do love to wear corsets and long skirts (too long an opera singer, I guess) and actually have a couple of degrees in history and have done quite a bit of study into that particular Era in England's history, and have more than one innate tendency which would work within that structure, however... I know that I do not live in a Victorian household. 

Again, I am just musing over the term itself, and whether or not people really understand what the Victorian household was like (and by the way, there are many versions of the Victorian household, not everyone was living in immaculate houses with servants and having tea with the ladies in their Salons... that is a great misinterpretation expounded by the 'historical' romance novel industry), and whether if one adds a couple of stylized bits to their life, if they are actually conforming to the harsh (and for women, it was incredibly hard) structure of a Victorian household, or if they are not just adding colors and nuances to 'modern' lifestyle.

< Message edited by puella -- 3/11/2007 5:15:45 AM >

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RE: 'Victorian Households" - 3/11/2007 5:30:07 AM   
leathersmith


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Ain't it amazing how asking a simple question translates into attacking someone's lifestyle.
Try questioning an ageplayer if you enjoy real drama.

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