RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (Full Version)

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KennelDeSade2 -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/12/2007 7:48:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

NOT because I agree there is anything wrong with BDSM per se. Done properly for the right reasons, it can be wonderful for relationships.



I pick my addictions with a great deal of care, and will hold that so long as you are aware of the costs going in, that not all addictions are harmful. 
Problems arise from failure to meet your responsibilities, not from your addiction.

I'm starting to think that "normal" as applied to the mental state of the human race is not the average falling into the middle range of some mental health bell curve.  But instead the majority is distributed out on the fringes and the median ends up being a very low density zone.



KennelDeSade2 -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/12/2007 8:10:58 AM)

quote:


Abuse and pain were the norm of my life for a period of about 5 years.
Finally, I spoke to him. Finally, I told him that I was tired of BDSM.


To address the article rather than the OP, I'd say that remark renders the rest of the article drivel.  Think that she might have been a good deal less bitter, had she mentioned her feelings three or four years sooner?  

But then, I always figured that communication is one of those bedrock foundations for a Ds relationship.  3
The conditions that she describes, in no way reflect the philosophy of Ds, as I see them most often applied.



SirDominic -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/12/2007 8:23:12 AM)

In a nutshell, an addiction is when you are preoccupied with one thing to the exclusion of all others.

Kennel said "I pick my addictions with a great deal of care, and will hold that so long as you are aware of the costs going in, that not all addictions are harmful.
Problems arise from failure to meet your responsibilities, not from your addiction."

Kennel, if you are taking care of your other responsibilities, by definition, you do not have an addiction.

Namaste, Sir Dominic



petdave -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/12/2007 5:55:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne
I believe the orginal writer, BB, enjoyed some aspects of BDSM and it was an emotional healthy activity.  She still would be enjoying BDSM, but her partner became an addict and needed more and more and more.  I do not think this is unusual in BDSM - do you?


i can't agree. The closing line from her article:

quote:


BDSM is legalized rape. It is legalized abuse by which men with deranged fantasies project their rape fantasies onto the women whom they destroy. BDSM is Stockholm’s Syndrome in practice. Don’t let anyone tell you any differently.


Honestly, i don't see how someone like "BB", who takes radical feminism to the point of tired, stereotypical male-bashing, could ever possibly have an emotionally healthy relationship with a man. Every relationship she will ever have will some way be tied to her experiences with sexual abuse. And don't forget, we're only getting her... perhaps-not-100%-objective... side of the story with regards to her ex-husband's "addiction" to BDSM.

Perhaps it could be viewed from the other side to determine that she, in turn, was equally to blame as a Vanilla Sex Addict. Or perhaps a Sitting On the Couch Watching Oprah And Stuffing Her Face addict. Or, for my money, a Bitching and Whining and Moaning and Complaining Addict.

If a couple has one UM, and the husband decides that one is more than enough, and the wife decides that she wants a large family, is she a pregnancy addict, or is he a disposable income addict? [:-] Because BDSM will by its nature have an impact on one's intimate relationship(s), i would hesitate to diagnose "BDSM addiction" through relationship problems alone. If it destroys a relationship, 9 times out of 10, i'd bet that relationship was poorly chosen.

i think that a more common situation is that a kinky person settles for a vanilla partner, and after good initial feedback, slowly introduces her to the things he's interested in (let's go ahead and use the typical gender pronouns, shall we?). She enjoys them at first, because he starts with the things that are most sensual and least threatening. At some point, as his fantasies and their physical reality converge, she stops actually enjoying what he's doing, but doesn't speak up, because she doesn't want to upset him, doesn't think things will get much "worse", or what have you. This continues until their scening reaches a point that she can no longer stand, and goes off like a hand grenade. But, having finally gotten close to what he's wanted all along, he's unwilling to give it up. Hilarity ensues (dark humor).


...dave



Lordandmaster -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/12/2007 5:59:02 PM)

Ummm...I would say it becomes a harmful addiction at the moment it becomes harmful.

No?



JSin -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/12/2007 11:01:27 PM)

                  The best definition I have seen for addiction is continuing a bahavior despite negative consequences. Those thresholds are very personal. I would guess if you have ended up peenyless and out on the streets due to BDSM play... You have a problem. If you are repeatedly hospitalized or have hospitalized someone... Ya might have a problem... If you cannot manage your life as a result of BDSM you might have a problem..


Just one mans view of it.
JSin



MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/13/2007 3:49:35 AM)

Thanks for the wide variety of thoughts.  I agree with some, disagree with some and the really clever comments changed my thinking!

I personally do not like the writing of BB and her rants against BDSM do infuriate me, but it does make me think. 

IMO "harmful" BDSM occurs when it hurts you or other people (such as children, existing partners) and you know you are causing harm, but you just cannot stop.

By the way, it takes  a lot of courage to be an OP in the collarme forum.  I hope this thread helps anyone involved with a BDSM addict to speak up about the problem: do not suffer in silence like BB. 



cloudboy -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/13/2007 12:31:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

IMO this radical feminist criticism of BDSM is actually an excellent read (apologies because it is rather long)


I just read it, and IMO its not a "radical feminist criticism" at all, but rather a bad marriage experience from which she tries to make universal criticisms.

As such, I had to immediately apply the discount of: its a generalization from a bad marriage.

Here my observations:

1) Its sad to see one spouse be so insensitive to another. Here the DOM foists BDSM on his wife, basiscally oblivious to the fact that she doesn't like it and isn't moved by it.

2) I would rather masturbate by myself in dark room (maybe even with shameful porn between my legs) than have sex with a woman who "isn't into it." The woman who "isn't into it" creates too much self-conflict for me to generate any passion.

3) I thought the woman's attitude toward her husband wanting a better sexual relationship was a poor one. In the whole diatribe she's nothing but reactionary, and she's never proactive or imaginative on the intimacy front. This allows her to play the victim's role, but I think one could also argue she was the enabler of her own dissatisfactions.

4) In the end, her generalizations struck me as narcisssitic, aka my own personal bad experience has a universal truth for all concerned. While externalizing her problems onto the bad husband and his practice of BDSM, she focuses not a word on her own contribution to what happened or how others manage BDSM better than she and her husband did.

5) All in all, I felt her story was more about the slipperly slope of marital accomodation than it was about anything "feminist" in orientation.



MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/13/2007 8:38:08 PM)

Thank cloudboy.  I love your writing.

I think BB is bitter and twisted (and not in a good way!)

The message I take away as a Dominant is beware of Stockholm Syndrome.  The slip from consensual to non-consensual can be so gradual neither of you see it coming (until the sub "blows up" one day and calls you an abuser).

I disagree that this was a simple mistake of a kinky person accidentally marrying a "vanilla" person and then trying to change her.  BB was originally a willing (albeit suprised) participant.  Her husband just got carried away and forgot to bring her consensually with him.  As you say, the situation was handled badly by both





cloudboy -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/14/2007 6:21:28 AM)

quote:

The message I take away as a Dominant is beware of Stockholm Syndrome. The slip from consensual to non-consensual can be so gradual neither of you see it coming (until the sub "blows up" one day and calls you an abuser).


Yes, when does sexy become badly twisted? Where's the line? When is pushing limits good and when is it abusive or taking advantage of someone?

I think trial & error combined with sanity keep most of us securely safe from Stockholms syndrome.

>The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage can show signs of having feelings of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which the hostage has been placed. Stockholm syndrome is also sometimes discussed in reference to other situations with similar tensions, such as battered person syndrome, rape cases, child abuse cases, and bride kidnapping.<

Must say I see more of a "hostage situation" in most marriages than I do in BDSM relationships, but I'm sure that's just a product of the numbers game.

A friend of mine once told me a story of a submissive woman, who overly revolved around her dominant (cooking, cleaning, watching what he wanted on TV, holding down a job, letting him live in her house, etc.) EXPLODING and tossing his framed set of BDSM rules (which was hangin on the wall) across the room, shattering it to pieces. Must say, I just love that kind of submissive behavior.

She didn't have stockholms syndrome.



MsParados -> RE: When does BDSM become a harmful addiction? (3/14/2007 6:50:27 AM)

That blog post was the largest peice of tripe I have read all weak. She sounds like one of those confused nilla girls that want the strength of a Dom and a d/s relationship but once in it realizes that it is best left in her romance novels. All of that "abuse" she suffered from due to her husbands "addiction" sounds like a subs dreams, or at the very least a very large part of my reality. I could see if he wasn't paying the bills, going to work and was sneaking around -all traits of addicts and addictions- but for an alt sexual type to want and prefer to particapate in an alt lifestyle only makes them being true to their nature. Maybe BB should have spent more time getting to truly know her partner and could have avoided even more "trama". Her claim that BDSM is abuse, just proves her real character to me.....



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