RE: Trust but verify. (Full Version)

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MagiksSlave -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:05:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

The more I think of this the less it makes sence it seems to me that trust but varify is an oxymoron.. isnt one of the aspect of trust not NEEDING to varify??

Just a thought

Magik's slave

Not necessarily Magik. If you think about it, how did your partner come to the point that he no longer needs to check on logs and such with you? Are you going to say that it happened right from the beginning?


Honestly it didnt take very long at all.. In fact I dont think he has EVER checked up on what I have told him.. It may have to do with the fact that the day we collard I willingly without him asking or even mentioning it gave him the password to all of  my acounts. I guess the fact that he can makes it so he feels he never needs to.. And he doesnt because I would never lie to him just like I know he would never lie to me. You know not haveing that feeling of needing to check in on your partner like that takes a lot of pressure and stress of the relationship.

Magik's slave




CreativeDominant -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:06:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Understanding the importance of trust in any relationship I wanted to open this topic for discussion.  We often hear that he/she doesn’t trust me because of _____ or _____ and ______. I think blind trust is the armor of fools, which brings me to trust and verify.
I can give trust, however I want to verify that trust. I do this by be attentive to words, actions, reactions and deeds. The sabotage thread gave me a lot to think about and reflect on this concept. I had to weigh if I was distrusting and just waiting to be proven justified in distrust or if I was trusting and waiting for verification of that trust. It brought me to the conclusion, after watching my own (bizarre) behavior on the boards and how I assimilate data of other posters that I do trust and verify.


Trust and verify...it depends on what you mean by verify.  If someone says they will be someplace at a certain time and they are there, then they have lived up to their word.  How important that is depends on how much value you put on it...for some people, punctuality is an important thing...for others, it's a shrug.  If someone has told you they are too sick to go out with you that evening and you call their house and don't get an answer and get an answering machine, can you automatically assume that they have lied to you and gone out on the town with someone else?  Not unless you've known this person to be a liar in the past and maybe even a cheat.  But the sad thing is...even if this person has never lied to you, you're this close to moving in together, and so on and so forth, it does not mean that might not be the time they haven't told you the truth.  So...you can trust and still have it shattered, despite all that you have done to verify.

quote:

I do not automatically react to post, I tend to study them and look for consistencies and inconsistencies. I use this as a tool to understand the person on the other side of the screen, not just a potential partner, but just about everyone. I get a feel for who they are through their posts, or their alts posts once they come into light.

 
When a D is wanting passwords, chat logs, or other information s tend to balk and feel they aren’t being trusted.  Is it a matter of distrust and looking for the fatal flaw or is it a matter of trust and verify. In this medium all we really have is what the online persona presents to us. For all the members of this community is it about trust and verify or are you distrusting and searching for failure?


You can ask for all the passwords you want and they might not balk and will instead, willingly give you the passwords to ALL their accounts...but one.  Unless you are a computer geek and able to ferret out that hidden account and then, the password, you can never be totally sure, can you?  At a certain point, you either have to decide you trust and build on that or you make your submissive feel that she is never totally trusted.  And, human nature being what it is, at what point is she going to look at you...the dominant who expects complete trust from her but is unwilling to give it...and sadly shake her head as she walks away?

***Disclaimer:  In the paragraphs above, the term "you" was often used to illustrate various points and to make it simpler to understand.  The use of the term "you" is not meant to refer to Troll nor to anyone else who has posted on here.  Belief that it has been used to refer to Troll or to denigrate Troll in any way is erroneous on your part and will result in loss of privileges.***





Llyren -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

I have even more spiffy boots now.




Pictures!  Please!





MagiksSlave -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:09:29 PM)

At a certain point, you either have to decide you trust and build on that or you make your submissive feel that she is never totally trusted.  And, human nature being what it is, at what point is she going to look at you...the dominant who expects complete trust from her but is unwilling to give it...and sadly shake her head as she walks away?


Exactly.. this is what I was trying to say!!!

Magik's slave




bayboundse -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:10:43 PM)

I do not think its a I trust you I dont trust you subject. What we are talking about here is building trust. The more you verify and everything is as it should be the less you verify. Once you hit the level one of the posters above talked about "faith" you no longer verifiy or at least not often.
Online it takes us alot of verification to trust someone. In person it is less.




LaTigresse -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:13:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Llyren

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

I have even more spiffy boots now.




Pictures!  Please!




No shit! I get a picture of...........and yet you get new boots and do not send me ( a boot and shoe fanatic.....among other things) a picture of them?!?!? What is wrong with this?

**sidenote......and it only took 26 posts to go from a beautifully deep subject like trust to hyjacking it into pictures of boots.[:D]




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:21:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
i am thinking about all the energy i put into not trusting.  wow


It's amazing the areas that we will invest time and energy into, isn't it? I have someone in my life who spent a lot of time making himself invisible as a teenager. Now, as an adult, he complains about being invisible. I tell him that he has to invest as much energy and more into beng visible if he wants it to happen...and that he's not allowed to complain what he deliberately created for himself.

Master Fire




Llyren -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 12:23:51 PM)

I agree completely, LaTigresse.  Pictures must be posted posthaste, but not post dated.   I really like spiffy boots.  On men and women.  Mmmm.. boots... 




LadyPact -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 2:45:27 PM)

Seems to shed a bit of light, Troll.  Glad to see it, IMHO.
 
On a personal note to the issue, if you put any stock into Astrology, I'm a Libra, on the Virgo cusp.  For those not familiar, it means that I am somewhat emotional (lean with gut feelings/instinct), but at some point, it had better be backed up with FACT.  In other words, I'll give trust to a certain extent, when it has been proven worthy, I will give a little more.  Trust is a building process with Me. 
 
Excellent thread, Troll.




FukinTroll -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 2:57:20 PM)

Thank you Lady.




GeekyGirl -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 2:58:17 PM)

Unfortunately, I trust entirely too easily when I feel a connection with someone and I have been hurt badly from such (over and over again in fact..you'd think I'd learn.)

As for passwords, chat logs, etc, I have no problem giving that information to someone whom I am in a serious relationship with. I have absolutely nothing to hide.

GeekyGirl is pretty transparent anyway....or so I'm told.




kyraofMists -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 3:13:23 PM)

Unfortunately for me, it is more distrusting and searching for failure.  I don't trust easy and not many earn the level of trust that I need for an intimate relationship.  My Lord earned it and continues to earn it every day by being who he is.  The interactions with him were much different than many in my past.  There was a comfort level I had with him in being open and vulnerable and as each day goes by I am driven to be even more vulnerable with him. 

However, there have been a few thorns amoung all the roses.  There was a time last year that all the trust was almost lost by wrong choices that fed my fears.  It took a lot of work to get past those moments but we are both better people and our relationship is stronger for having gone through that time.

One day I will move past all the wounds that make me so distrusting and it will be easier for me to trust and have faith in others.

Knight's kyra




TemptingNviceSub -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 3:13:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

If I told you that 145 X 62 = 8990 would you take my word for it?
Yes I would believe your calculation..why?..because it is of no import..I think sometimes we need to analyze depth of trust..thats when you get to the nitty gritty..we all give trust in some ways to all people..but the depth is the question..for example:..I do not know FT personally at all, but have seen his posts for quite some time..so..would I trust him with say telling me what the weather is going to be?or trust him with maybe giving me advice?or letting him drive my car?..Sure..nothing much lost if my trust was found to be misplaced..would I trust FT with say tying me up?watching my UM (if I had one:0)?..giving him access to my bank accounts?..no..because I have never seen or met FT in real life.....so hence it comes down to depth of trust.......Tempting




kyraofMists -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 3:19:56 PM)

Welcome back, Irish.

It is good to see you posting again.




LadyPact -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 3:22:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Thank you Lady.


Quite welcome, Troll.  As One might have noticed, I have a great interest in those threads that are thought provoking, and insightful.




Bearlee -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 3:41:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

For me, it's about trust and verify. This is a part of being "transparent" for me...in order to really share, you have to be open to a certain amount of transparency in your life. I have layers of transparency, as do many. 


WOW… well said!
 
CD said “At a certain point, you either have to decide you trust and build on that…” which I also believe.  I think the ability to do this comes with time and experience together.  Actions do speak louder than words.  When one regularly and continually behaves in the manner they have said; trust builds and the layers of privacy and self-protection are shed, however transparent they may have been.  Kyra, I believe when trust builds, faith happens, and I believe this begins with first deciding to trust
 
I think it takes work, though.  Not as much as NOT trusting, but it takes vigilance; attention and care.
 
Thanks Troll; good topic!
 
bearlee




gypsygrl -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 3:57:24 PM)

Another thought:  Generally, I have no problem providing whatever information a Dominant wants about myself and my activities assuming that the relationship has progressed to the point where that's warrented.  I wouldn't do that if I felt it was necessary to prove that I was trustworthy, however.  I would do it because I trusted the Dominant, and would desire that level of transparancy.  It gives me a warm fuzzy.  Basically, being that transparant assumes a high level of trust, for me, rather than being a precondition for it.

I'm generally a trusting person even though I've been hurt.   Again, just because somethings happened in the past doesn't mean its going to happen in the future and just because I got burned in the last relationship, doesnt mean I'm going to get burned in the next. 




missturbation -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 4:54:10 PM)

Trust with me varies, sometimes i instantly instinctively trust and others my trust has to be earnt. I have been wrong through both and been hurt but i can't change how i basically function.
I recently was asked for chat logs and had i of kept them i would have gladly handed them over. I hold no bad feelings for the person who asked, i would rather they read them and be sure of me than not. Having said that a little part of me was hurt they couldnt trust my word but i did understand in the given situation.
 
 




swtrayn -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 6:29:33 PM)

I have to say that I have major issues with trust at this time in life, or should I say the lack of trust.
My last D/s experience (over 3 yr relationship) ended because of betrayal and breaking of trust.
I know that Troll stated that blind trust is for fools, and I was one of those fools. Now, because of that, I can't seem to trust many, and those who try to get close to me, I find myself looking for things that could be lies.
The sad thing is that, this person or that person hasn't done anything to deserve that amount of mistrust, but I find myself mistrusting anyway.
I know that it is because of the past. I just haven't figured out how to let that baggage go yet, and probably will be along time before I can.

So, I guess that I am (at this time in my life) distrusting and searching for failure.
I pray that during this healing period for me, it won't stay that way.

I don't know if this answered the question.. but it sure helped me in sharing it.

rayn




Sinergy -> RE: Trust but verify. (3/12/2007 6:35:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

For me, it's about trust and verify. This is a part of being "transparent" for me...in order to really share, you have to be open to a certain amount of transparency in your life. I have layers of transparency, as do many.

Master Fire



I teach women's self defense.

I dont actually want her to trust me until I have earned her trust.  So I provide all the relevant information.

Sinergy




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