quote:


by Ryan Singel, Luke O'Brien, and Kevin Poulsen
Monday, 12 March 2007
Spying Too Secret For Your Court: AT&T, Gov Tell Ninth

AT&T told an appeals court in a written brief Monday that the case against it for allegedly helping the government spy on its customers should be thrown out, because it cannot defend itself -- even by showing a signed order from the government -- without endangering national security.

A government brief filed simultaneously backed AT&T's claims and said a lower court judge had exceeded his authority by not dismissing the suit outright.

Because plaintiffs' entire action rests upon alleged secret espionage activities, including an alleged secret espionage relationship between AT&T and the Government concerning the alleged activities, this suit must be dismissed now as a matter of law," the government argued in its brief (.pdf).

The telecom giant and the government are appealing a June ruling in a federal district court that allowed the suit brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation against the telecom to proceed, despite the government's invocation of a powerful tool called the "states secrets privilege," which allows it to have civil cases dismissed when national secrets are involved.

California Northern District Court Chief Judge Vaughn Walker ruled, however, that since the government had admitted it was wiretapping Americans without a warrant and that AT&T had to be involved, the case could go forward tentatively. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals will hear the government and AT&Ts' appeal in the coming months.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/03/its_too_secret_.html

quote:


by Ryan Singel, Luke O'Brien, and Kevin Poulsen
Monday, 12 March 2007
Spying Too Secret For Your Court: AT&T, Gov Tell Ninth

AT&T told an appeals court in a written brief Monday that the case against it for allegedly helping the government spy on its customers should be thrown out, because it cannot defend itself -- even by showing a signed order from the government -- without endangering national security.

A government brief filed simultaneously backed AT&T's claims and said a lower court judge had exceeded his authority by not dismissing the suit outright.

Because plaintiffs' entire action rests upon alleged secret espionage activities, including an alleged secret espionage relationship between AT&T and the Government concerning the alleged activities, this suit must be dismissed now as a matter of law," the government argued in its brief (.pdf).

The telecom giant and the government are appealing a June ruling in a federal district court that allowed the suit brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation against the telecom to proceed, despite the government's invocation of a powerful tool called the "states secrets privilege," which allows it to have civil cases dismissed when national secrets are involved.

California Northern District Court Chief Judge Vaughn Walker ruled, however, that since the government had admitted it was wiretapping Americans without a warrant and that AT&T had to be involved, the case could go forward tentatively. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals will hear the government and AT&Ts' appeal in the coming months.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Like ol george said "it is just a goddamn piece of paper"
thompson

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

The President never said anything like that. Some people are awfully gullible, you know it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Sanity:
Try "its just a god damn piece of paper" on google
then come back and I will help you get your foot out of your mouth.
thompson

Like ol george said "it is just a goddamn piece of paper"
thompson

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Right or wrong they picked the 9th circuit to challenge this.   That is a sure sign that it is headed for the Supreme Court.   the 9th circuit has more reversals from the supreme court than any other - especially on big issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Oh, so you say, "If it's on the Internet, then it must be true"?

Pardon me while I roll around on the floor, laughing my ass off for a while...

(I stand by my previous comment).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Right or wrong they picked the 9th circuit to challenge this.   That is a sure sign that it is headed for the Supreme Court.   the 9th circuit has more reversals from the supreme court than any other - especially on big issues.

What interests me is people who seem to support Monkeyboy illegally spying on US citizens without a warrant, in direct violation of the Bill of Rights, seem completely unconcerned that their government could and did illegally spy
on them as well.

Do you people really enjoy being illegally spied on?

I personally have issues being considered a criminal by the government without due process of law.  Jefferson, et al, are probably spinning in their graves.

Sinergy

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ORIGINAL: Sternhand4

Well you make it sound like the "evil government" is listening in on your calls.
Are you calling Al Qaeda operatives?

from your cited article..
in January it would stop the warrantless wiretapping of certain overseas phone calls and get warrants from the court it evaded.

There is no guarantee of intrusion from foreign countries listening in on your calls either, in fact its the norm. More importantly its what the public expected. Remember after 9-11, the outcry as to why we didn't know why or how the terrorist attacked.
Things like this,,
However, because of concerns about pursuing information on "U.S. persons" — a legal term that includes U.S. citizens as well as foreigners admitted to the country for permanent residence — Special Operations Command didn't give the Army information to the FBI. It is unclear whether the Army provided the information to anyone else.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165268,00.html

There was tons of questions why we didn't know more.
You cant have it both ways total security and abject freedom. Its a sign of the times, and new lines have to be drawn.