RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/15/2007 10:45:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Synergy:
I know you are a union longshoreman.  Like I said that is why you get the big bux and the corner office.[;)]
Six figgure salary and an airconditioned 40 ton forklift with a view of the bay...nice work if you can get it.  If I wanted a job yours would be high on my wish list.
thompson


My forklift has no air conditioning.  It is not even the 80 ton one that makes Mr. Tiny stand at attention.

Regarding the paycheck; united we bargain, divided we beg.  I used to beg as an cubicle monkey, now I bargain as a union member.

Agree about the view, although today I had a view of the side of a ship and a warehouse.

But it all works out in the end.

Sinergy



thompsonx -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/15/2007 10:49:06 PM)

Sinergy:
I have no problem with the wages you make.
thompson



Sinergy -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/15/2007 11:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sinergy:
I have no problem with the wages you make.
thompson


On a related note, Congress just passed a resolution allowing the TSA people to unionize.

I bet Halliburton is crapping cinder blocks.

Sinergy



SimplyMichael -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 1:51:11 AM)

Haliburton is sucking on welfare, they get a percentage of whatever the workers make, the more they make the bigger profit Haliburton makes.



farglebargle -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 5:57:13 AM)

Great. Bush creates the Largest Government Ever, ( offensive to any REAL Conservative, Ok for the Neocon Party Whores ) then gives them a UNION.

Nothing better than hiring people to vote for you.




KenDckey -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 7:09:25 AM)

I am definately not in favor of governmental unions.  Government workers should work at the will of the people.



thompsonx -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 7:17:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am definately not in favor of governmental unions.  Government workers should work at the will of the people.

KenDckey:
Even the president?
thompson



popeye1250 -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 7:36:51 AM)

I wonder how many lobbyists on "K" street in Washington, D.C. Halliburton employs?
With all the shit they've pulled why are they getting U.S. govt. contracts still?



SimplyMichael -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 7:40:31 AM)

Popeye, google the "k street project"...



KenDckey -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 9:52:08 AM)

Yes Thompson   Even the President



Sinergy -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 9:54:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Great. Bush creates the Largest Government Ever, ( offensive to any REAL Conservative, Ok for the Neocon Party Whores ) then gives them a UNION.

Nothing better than hiring people to vote for you.




This would be called "fiscal conservatism."

Sinergy



farglebargle -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 10:00:12 AM)

"Conservative" Period.

"Fiscal Conservative" is an artificial construct, by the Neocon Party Whores, to justify their use of the term, despite clear antagonism to the fundamental beliefs.




thompsonx -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 1:57:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Yes Thompson   Even the President

Then why does he not do what the majority of the U.S. have told him to do.
thompson



KenDckey -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/16/2007 6:07:08 PM)

I haven't seen that on my ballot and I don't trust anyone's polls



Marc2b -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/17/2007 4:42:51 AM)

quote:

I do not think it has to be an either... etc.


It did sound to me that farglebargle was saying that the whole operation should be shut down and sold off piecemeal which to me seems grossly unfair to the grunt loading the truck, but if we are talking about selling off a miscreant corporation as a whole – in essence bringing in new management – I’d have no problem with that.

Nor are you going to get any argument from me that miscreant corporate executives need to be held legally accountable. I did say that they should be criminally prosecuted.

You’re not going to get any argument from me about war being a racket (although I’ve not read the book) either. I’ve long held with the belief that war is theft writ large. I’m hard pressed to think of any war in which someone wasn’t trying to steal something (usually resources) from someone else. Ideologies, belief systems and slogans are merely covers for what is really going on.

As for the rest, security is indeed a cost of doing business (ultimately passed on to the consumer). I am a firm believer in the free market but the free market can’t operate effectively without a fair and consistent body of laws (yeah, I know, but hope springs eternal). If corporations can pass the cost of security on to someone else (be it through the Marine Corp or by paying extortion), why wouldn’t they? It is all a matter of incentives. One of the biggest myths bandied around (particularly on the left side of the political spectrum) is the notion that corporations love the free market. They don’t. They hate it. The free market allows competition. Competition that might out perform them and put them out of business. That’s why corporations are always lobbying (read: paying bribes) the government to get special favors and hamstring the competition in the legal arena. I know I am beginning to sound like a parrot with this but I do heartily recommend "Basic Economics," by Thomas Sowell. At the heart of his arguments is the difference between the desired outcome of a certain policy and the actual outcome based upon people misunderstandings of self interest (which should not be confused with greed) and incentives.



Marc2b -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/17/2007 4:53:45 AM)

quote:

Tough Fucking Shit.

Maybe if there's the threat of reprecussions of that magnitude, one of his lickspittles would have ratted him out earlier.

You don't cry for the dependent children of the guy who was setup by a FBI Rat, do you?

How could the grunt loading the truck (to continue the analogy I used im my reply to thompsonx) know what the top management is up to in their board room? How does he bear any responsibility for it? Do you blame a truck driver working for Enron for CEO’s what’s-his-name’s (it slips me right now) misdeeds? As a believer in the free market I accept the fact that jobs are lost (and created) all the time, but I don’t see why we have to add to it by punishing those who were in no way responsible.



farglebargle -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/17/2007 6:42:50 AM)

That's a downside to working for an Artificial Legal Entity.

Caveat Employee. If your boss is a crook, you will be out of a job.

Holding ALEs accountable is more important than ensuring the truck driver doesn't lose his job. ( That's almost bordering on socialism or something. I haven't had a coffee yet. )




thompsonx -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/17/2007 4:50:10 PM)

Mark2b:
I knew you had it in you.  I just had to dig a bit.
I would only take exception to two points.
1.) I have not noticed the right or the left being any different in their trying to equate capitalism with free enterprise.  Both are equally guilty of this phony synonym.
2.) Uncle Tom Sowell is just an appologist for capitalism (read corporations)...on the surface,much like liberaterianism, he has the ring of validity but if you read deeper you find it is just the same mud different day.  A gang of thugs touting independence and self reliance for others and protectionism  and special priviledge for themselves.
thomposn



Marc2b -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/20/2007 1:42:16 PM)

quote:

I knew you had it in you.

okay... uhmmm... what would it be, though.
quote:

I have not noticed the right or the left being any different in their trying to equate capitalism with free enterprise. Both are equally guilty of this phony synonym.

Most people do tend to think of the two words as being interchangeable (a lot of words are used incorrectly – often deliberately – in political discussions).
quote:

Uncle Tom Sowell is just an appologist for capitalism (read corporations)...on the surface,much like liberaterianism, he has the ring of validity but if you read deeper you find it is just the same mud different day. A gang of thugs touting independence and self reliance for others and protectionism and special priviledge for themselves.

We part ways again when it come to Sowell. He is one of my favorite authors. While I may not agree with everything he says, I do agree with a lot of it. Mostly, I credit him with opening my eyes to why centrally planned economies can never work. Thanks to him I am now a much more critical observer of the news (especially economic news) and no longer swallow whole all the doom and gloom pronouncements of the media because what is bad news for one group of people may be good news for others.

For example, if prices drop in the housing market you’ll here about how horrible it is for the poor home owners who are trying to sell. True, but not the whole truth. You don’t here what great news this is for people looking to buy homes.



SimplyMichael -> RE: "Chiquita to pay $25 million fine in terror case" (3/20/2007 2:34:28 PM)

First step is to realize that what we think is happening often isn't.

quote:

Mostly, I credit him with opening my eyes to why centrally planned economies can never work.


Tell that to India, China, South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan.  Those countries built their economies by violation all the conventional wisdom pushed by the IMF and The World Bank.  The protected and nurtured some industries and abandoned others through a centrally planned strategy of governement controls and protections which only after they were successful did they begin to remove those early controls.

quote:

  For example, if prices drop in the housing market you’ll here about how horrible it is for the poor home owners who are trying to sell. True, but not the whole truth. You don’t here what great news this is for people looking to buy homes.


Again, this is all smoke and mirrors.  The real issue is that Bush and Greenspan inflated housing prices and allowed massive barrowing against those inflated prices to fund their economic vacuum cleaner.  Now that they have sucked the middle class dry they are going to throw all of us to the mercy of the Chinese where they have their money invested.



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