RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (Full Version)

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BeachMystress -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/20/2007 5:33:06 AM)

In a way though, I think that all Dominants prove their Dominance to a sub at the beginning of the relationship. (It is up to you to decide if proving their Dominance means proving their superiority. Personally, my feeling is that Dominants and submissives are "equal, but different.") If that Dominant spark isn't there, either the sub moves on or things limp along in an unsatisfying relationship until the sub gets fed up and moves on. This doesn't mean I think that the Dominant went out of their way to prove Dominance (or superiority if you're of that camp.) Rather something about the Dominant resonated in the submissive and made the sub go.. mm, that is a Dom/me!

As an example of this, I bring up one of my ex subs. He decided to switch and while he looks the part of a Dom, he had woman after woman tell him he just wasn't Dominant. He was too concerned about their feelings or some such. He really wanted to control the women, he just didn't "seem" Dominant to women, so they didn't choose him as their partner. Another ex sub of mine (switch) has no problems finding subs. He has "the attitude" and subs seem to swoon for him. He doesn't act like a jerk but is very self confident. Both men are equally nice and considerate. One is able to convey Dominance and the other is not.

How do you folks feel about this?



StellaByStarlite -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/20/2007 7:09:45 AM)

Hey, BeachMystress,

Yeah, I tend to agree that at the beginning, a sub or slave might want more domliness shown towards them. It might not have anything to do with "proving superiority" and more to do with establishing the dynamic as a whole. Or... like in a vanilla relationship, how a new couple are all over each other and have that romantic "high" in the beginning, then they settle down more as time passes. It could be that way in a D/s relationship as well.

I mean, let's face it... active submission just feels damn good. =) Yes, obeying and pleasing in and of themselves are a huge part of my relationship.. but hell yeah, I love it when he gets all domly. I love it when he exerts his will over mine.

As far as attitude is concerned..dunno. My owner is mild-mannered in his social and work life ( he's an adoption planner/social worker who deals with damaged kids), so the contrast between his public persona and his home life is what drives me wild, lol. Traditional machismo has never appealed to me. There's a shaky line, sometimes, between a healthy confidence and cockiness. But yeah, I can see where attitude can make an impression.


Stella



KnightofMists -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/20/2007 5:07:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mythi

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: mythi


Sometimes insecurities are justified. ...


Personally... I don't see Insecurities as Justifiable.  This indicates to me that it's ok to have them and their is nothing wrong with having them.  Personally... I don't agree with that line of thought.  However, insecurities are expainable.  Meaning, there is reasons why people have the insecurites in the first place.  Interestingly, when we can explain why they are there, we can work at removing them.

Is it wrong to feel insecure about not trusting myself to be provoked when my "walls are down" unless I was sure the other person could adequately control me so I don't hurt them or myself?  Not sure it would really be such a good idea to remove that insecurity...  Or even how I'd go about it safely.
And just out of curiosity would you indeed define that as an insecurity or something different?  



The more I read your quesition... the more I contend that it doesn't make any sense to me.  You seem to be twisting a couple thoughts into one sense.

Not trusting someone does not equate to an Insecurity of Self.  Not trusting someone because your concerned that they will provoke you is not an insecurity.    This is a lcak of confidence in them not yourself.  Just because you lack Trust doesn't mean you are insecure.  It's with go reason why we don't trust some individuals.

Secondly, insecurity is the anxiety you experience when you feel vulnerabe and insecure.  In otherwords it is in the present.  So... the question is such anxiety healthy for the person... in some cases it just might in other cases it is not.  Put yourself in a cage with a tiger you will feel alot of anxiety.  Remove yourself and the anxiety is will go away.  The point is... is it wrong.. no... but it is wrong to just allow the insecurity to persist because to stay in that situation will cause you harm at worse or lack of growth at best.  The feelings of insecurity exist for a reason... they are trigger that you need to do something.  to change something, to take action, etc.  Thus, I am saying that it is wrong to allow insecurities to presist and not do anything about them.  But it is not wrong to have them.  They are triggers and warnings that we should listen to.  Listen and then do something about them so they do not presist.




Rose4Mistress -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/20/2007 5:22:39 PM)

It has always been my thought, noobie that I am, that neither the Dominant half nor the submissive half is in any way "better" than the other.  They are simply different.  I have often been called a "bratty" sub, because I find many of the Dom/mes on this site to expect me to submit to them without ever giving me a reason why I should.  Simply because their name is listed as a Dominant and mine as a submissive, does not give them any reason to make demands of me.  I am quite likely to tell them to "go screw" themselves.  So maybe this makes me a brat.  But I think a true Dom/me would not accuse me of being a brat, because they would be confident enough in their dominance not make foolish demands of someone online.
The Dommes that I have found worth talking to on here have been few, compared to the influx of email I receive.  However, those that have approached me kindly, and interestingly, are the ones that I would be willing to submit to.  They prove their dominance simply by being who they are.
Anyway, this was a bit longer than I intended for my first post.  Hope this made some semblance of sense.

Rose



jaunty1 -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/20/2007 5:35:53 PM)

This question could quite effectively be turned around the other way. Should a submissive prove their submissive personality?
 
I don't feel that I need to prove to anyone who I am, or what I am. All I need to do is be myself; they can then make their own judgements.
 
Live well,
 
Alex



mons -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/21/2007 1:54:58 AM)

greeting

this is why i am picky i do not want a slave who is a doormat to i want him to be equal in the brains dpeartament and also be sumbissvie when we are alone not pudlic play to show i am the one in charge he know this without me saying just a look from me and he knows wherter he is in troulbe or he is in joy with me. as a man a want him to take care of any heavy lifting or trouble no your right i understood what you meant and it make so much seen. it is all about the mind this is what dominant means taking the mind and molding it to my shape good post my dear

thanks
mons



mythi -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/21/2007 7:04:02 PM)

The main point I apparently failed to make is... it appears that some Dom(me)s object to feeling like a sub is demanding they prove their superiority in some or many ways *just* because they feel these demands are based in a sub's insecurities. Yet it's both unfair to the individual sub and potentially dangerous (physically, psychologically, however) to one or both of them to dismiss these demands out of hand. They may be based on valid concerns, whether or not those concerns have produced insecurities or anxiety.


Now, for the sake of prolonging the slow torturous death of the insecurities sub-thread...
(Anyone already over it move along, nothing more to see here, folks.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

It isn't wrong to feel insecure. You very likely have perfectly rational reasons for it, but the idea is to work at overcoming them rather than hanging on to them and letting them affect you forever. As far as going about it safely...good, strong, nearly indestructible restraints helped quite a bit in that department. ;) That's part of why I still like him grabbing my throat. My mind runs at 100 mph all of the time, and it instantly stops when his hand touches my throat. It's peace for me before I get headed down into the wrong headspace, and for me it's a kindness and a blessing that he does so.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

The more I read your quesition... the more I contend that it doesn't make any sense to me. You seem to be twisting a couple thoughts into one sense.

Not trusting someone does not equate to an Insecurity of Self. Not trusting someone because your concerned that they will provoke you is not an insecurity. This is a lcak of confidence in them not yourself. Just because you lack Trust doesn't mean you are insecure. It's with go reason why we don't trust some individuals.

Secondly, insecurity is the anxiety you experience when you feel vulnerabe and insecure. In otherwords it is in the present. So... the question is such anxiety healthy for the person... in some cases it just might in other cases it is not. Put yourself in a cage with a tiger you will feel alot of anxiety. Remove yourself and the anxiety is will go away. The point is... is it wrong.. no... but it is wrong to just allow the insecurity to persist because to stay in that situation will cause you harm at worse or lack of growth at best. The feelings of insecurity exist for a reason... they are trigger that you need to do something. to change something, to take action, etc. Thus, I am saying that it is wrong to allow insecurities to presist and not do anything about them. But it is not wrong to have them. They are triggers and warnings that we should listen to. Listen and then do something about them so they do not presist.


I'm not concerned per se with being provoked to violent rage. In fact I've found it rather cathartic when done intentionally as smilingjaguar suggests in strong restraints, and by someone I know is able to handle themselves should the restraints happen to fail (or better yet who can handle me without the restraints). But this is something that an individual needs to "prove" to me first. You either show me that you can bodily restrain me while I still have control over my faculties or I can't in good conscience allow myself to enter a situation where that control could slip. I worked damn hard to gain that mental control in the first place and I don't lay it down lightly. There's just too many things that can go weird during bdsm play and it's very unlikely that I'll always be in good, solid restraints (altho one can always hope!).

And I don't care if you have to sit on me, so long as you can get me underneath you in the first place. Because once I'm gone I'm gone. I black out and I go for blood. And I know how to get it, and have seriously (permanently in one case) hurt people. And it's been like that for me since early childhood. I'm sure there's a genetic component to it with my birth father (I'm adopted) because what little information was available about him revolved around impulse control problems and crazy white boy with a shotgun and a hostage sort of violence. I did not get this information til I was in my early 20's and had already reigned in my own temper by then. So while there could be some early underlying causative event I could work through and thereby 'grow out of it', there likely isnt. And I would have no idea what that event could possibly be if it did exist. And yes, I've been through therapy 3 times and each time was a different approach (psychologist, psychiatrist, sociologist-each of a different school/methodology)...conclusion always the same...biochemistry or brain structure...sorry, cant help you...try some pills that will make you feel like an emotional zombie 24/7 instead. Me: Er, no thank you. So I've been down the road of looking for a means to make it go completely away (without selling my soul to the pharmaceudical industry). Just haven't found it so far.  Plenty of things I actively do help, but I still feel the impulse try to surface at times.

Alright, reading back over that I'm not sure I've explained myself any more clearly, but that's my best shot! lol



mythi -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/22/2007 7:41:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress
I read something tonight in a novel that echoed within me. It had to do with this topic, though the book was not BDSM themed. (Blood Bound [Mercy Thompson Series, Book 2] by Patricia Briggs) The Dominant persona said to the submissive persona "I don't control you ... you choose to submit." I found that phrase to be beautiful and moving.


Just started this book myself! Small world [:)]



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/22/2007 7:45:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mythi
The main point I apparently failed to make is... it appears that some Dom(me)s object to feeling like a sub is demanding they prove their superiority in some or many ways *just* because they feel these demands are based in a sub's insecurities. Yet it's both unfair to the individual sub and potentially dangerous (physically, psychologically, however) to one or both of them to dismiss these demands out of hand. They may be based on valid concerns, whether or not those concerns have produced insecurities or anxiety.

Dangerous?  To be rejected on false pretenses?  If there is danger, it's NOT caused by that particular situation.

If someone rejects you because of bad information or bad judgements, well that sucks but that really makes you happy because you found out early that they were lacking some basic relationship skills, yes?

You're right-I won't prove myself to someone to be in a relationship with them for ANY reason.  I am who I am, they can get to know and decide for themselves.

It just is almost always the case that the reason they want me to to "prove" something is due to THEIR insecurities.



dicipline2 -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/22/2007 2:08:45 PM)

Uhm, yeah. Isnt this a bit dangerous? I mean to invite a man to just.... well.... "put you in your place physically and mentally."

For one, doesnt imply a lack of submission in a sub?

For two, he could accidently hurt you trying to "prove" his place.




mythi -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/22/2007 5:29:45 PM)

Yeah, I was right, still not making myself clear.  And can't think of a way to explain it any better, so unless some epiphany smacks me upside the head I think I'll quit while I'm behind.

As for danger, dicipline, I'm not talking about telling some stranger to see if he can beat the crap out me.  Actually just the opposite...I want to know that if I try to beat the crap out of him, that he can protect himself...preferably without hurting me in the process.  Which very much can be done if you know how. 



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/22/2007 6:04:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mythi
As for danger, dicipline, I'm not talking about telling some stranger to see if he can beat the crap out me.  Actually just the opposite...I want to know that if I try to beat the crap out of him, that he can protect himself...preferably without hurting me in the process.  Which very much can be done if you know how. 

Absolutely.

There are a few ways you can know- you can make sure you are chains or cuffed before you start anything or you can tell him what sorts of behavior you express and see if he really can take it.

Life will bring us tests.  A short person is challenged to getting to tall things.  The short person isn't intentionally setting out to PROVE anything, it's just how life is.

If you have a problem in your life, it will cause tests to occur and the person will either prove that they can do it or not.

That's not the same as telling someone "You have to prove this in order for us to be together"  It's saying "This is part of me, do you want to see if we can work together on it?" and giving BOTH of you the time and experience to see if you can.



xxxintriguedxxx -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/23/2007 1:39:52 AM)

It's been my experience that if he has to prove he has it, he probably doesn't.



myobedience -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/23/2007 4:00:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle
so, out of curiosity, do you follow this approach (of being "tamed," or "put in your place," etc.), and why or why not? if so, what about it enhances your relationship, from your pov? if not, is there a particular reason it wouldn't fit your relationship?


I dont want to be tamed or put in my place. I know who I am before a Dominant that I consider is an equal to my s. If we are compatible, both vanilla and in D/s, and in sexual desires, then I know who I am.  The s to his D.
I was once "put in my place" by emotional abuse, severe lack of attention.  That place was NOT a good place. I suffered in self identity and self esteem.  I fought to find myself again.
I do NOT believe a dominant either Dom or Domme is surperior.  Thus I DONOT believe in female superiority as some Domme's like to think of themselves and of course, Dom's can have an arrogant better than any man attitude ...that is  I AM GOD!
Come on people... we are people.  We all pee and are exactlythe same once our skin is peeled away from our muscles. 
Male and Female.



alphasubstituent -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/23/2007 10:35:09 PM)

Personally, I don't wish to be "tamed" or "put in my place;" I have a very dominant personality in a social environment-- I like to take charge and be in control. For me to submit to someone, she must in a sense "earn" control over me by showing that she is indeed superior to me. There are a lot of people who claim to be superior, however, can't seem to demonstrate that they're in control. 



RedheadGirlNY -> RE: dominant proving their superiority - is it important to you? (3/24/2007 7:29:46 AM)

I find that those who are most committed to proving their superiority do it from a postition of being intimidated because the person they are attempting to impress has either much more experience or a very well-defined sense of self.  Often, they have neither.  When it becomes apparent that the person attempting to prove that superiority has neither then the question becomes "Are you in a place where you can learn and examine your own life and being?"  A bravado-filled response makes for my quick exit.  Personal experience only, of course, YMMV. 
 
Those who spend significant amounts of time and energy trying to prove their superiority?  Good gravy, if you have to ask "How much," you can't afford whatever it is.  If you have to refer to some nebulous (and amoebic) set of "rules" in order to attempt to confuzzle and frustrate the woman you're trying to impress, it's time to go back to RPG. 
 
Those who work too hard trying to convince me that  they're somehow dominant are really just....er....domineering and insecure.  Same for those who work so hard to convince others that they are looking for the "whole package" but only want to talk about the joy of receiving a blowjob.
 
Know what you want, know who you are.   It's a mantra.  There is no shame in being "new," in beginning a journey.  Every relationship is a new chance to be who you are and find that there is another soul who appreciates and craves what it is that you bring to the party.  Heck, you might even learn something in the process!!!
 
</begin rant>
 
Minor rant:  Gentlemen, "blowjob Doms" are a dime a dozen.  Introduce the topic in a first conversation, ramble on about the wonders of the control/rush/insert-your-word-of-choice of getting head and you'll chase the thinking sub away.   Ok, at least this one.   Heck, I've never met a man who didn't love having his cock worshipped. 
 
</end rant>
 
 



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