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RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 9:44:22 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline 		If it was not *meant* to be manipulative then it won't be and that's where communication of *why* it is a limit comes into play.  However, some people list a disinterest as a limit, something they would never, ever do for phychological, moral or physical issues just as a means to avoid the activity. 

Example...

Say WhiplashSmile was my submissive.  He has no interest in gas masks.  I love them.  He tells me they are a hard limit of his simply because he doesn't want to do deal with them, not because they actually are a limit.  It removes something from my arsenal because I will respect a limit.  I could use it as play or punishment as is my right as the dominant if it were not a limit.  But his using it as a limit when it is not is manipulating the dynamic to be more favorable to him. 

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 9:46:19 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have plenty of disinsterests.   I could not do gor if you ripped every nail from my fingers (at least that part would be interesting).  I have no interest in being a baby, catering to an adult baby, or having a baby (breeder).  I just don't get the appeal to poly,  bisexuality, or forcing anyong into accepting those.  Not interested in scat, or vomit, but golden has some appeal under the right circumstance.  I don't really regard these as limits because the chances of my being remotely interested in anyone who enjoys those things is very small. 
Apart from the Bi angle, which I do regard as a limit for my mental well-being, I see limits as more of a morality issue.  There are some things I will not do out of morals, ethics, and common sense.  Once you break those you have lost part of yourself.  I don't need to belong to anyone that badly.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 9:50:55 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline 		Limits should be defined with lots of conversations before entering into a relationship,There is some things a slave just won''t do and IF I want those things then she isn't for me..ONCE in a relationship its too late to set limits..I personally don't believe in limits,if you are collared then your owner should set them for you..The only ones here are those we impose on ourselfs,NO children,no animals and no scat nor broken bones or death..bounty

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US going to hell in a hand basket/

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 9:54:32 AM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for the clearification, and gives me a better understanding even of what limits should and shouldn't be.

_____________________________

"You never lose by loving. You always lose by holding back." Barbara De Angelis

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 10:06:13 AM   
WhiplashSmile


Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston
Example...

Say WhiplashSmile was my submissive.  He has no interest in gas masks.  I love them.  He tells me they are a hard limit of his simply because he doesn't want to do deal with them, not because they actually are a limit.  It removes something from my arsenal because I will respect a limit.  I could use it as play or punishment as is my right as the dominant if it were not a limit.  But his using it as a limit when it is not is manipulating the dynamic to be more favorable to him. 


Great Example!  For me, I got used to wearing gas mask and breathing device mask while in the Navy.  It always made me feel like Darth Vader in creepy way.  While I have not had an interest in Gas Masks. It might get creepy if I were the one wearing the Mask in a BDSM type of scene.  I have no interest in putting a Gas Mask over another persons head, this does not mean I won't it might make them feel a different way then I do.  Then again, I've never really took the time to fully explore something like this that is on my disinterest list.  I could actually come to enjoy wearing one, letting the creepy Dark Vader inside of me come out.  It's not fair, for somebody to simply mark a disinterest down as a hard limit.  Because both you and your partner might be missing out on something that might become an enjoyable activity.  

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 3/20/2007 10:08:09 AM >

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 10:40:19 AM   
hereyesruponyou


Posts: 770
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Limits should be absolute, and that is the way i thought of them when i first got into this. They were things that i just could never see myself doing, wanting to do, or be interested in watching others do. The whole idea of those things were just abhorrent to me. After a few years though and with the right person in teh right circumstance, some of those limits were tested and slowly decreased in number, intensity and in being absolute.

I think it is normal to change your limits based on the person you are with, the situation you are in and your own continued experiences, both good and bad, actual and voyeuristic. Disinterest can often be from a lack of real time experience or good experiences with an activity. I find i can become interested in something i thought i never would be if my partner is very into it. But then i may go back to disinterest in that activity if with someone else who just doesn't inspire that in me again.

As a domme, yes i want hard limits to be just that, something that is an absolute, and if your opinion on that later changes then just tell me.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 10:47:32 AM   
szobras


Posts: 435
Joined: 9/18/2006
Status: offline 		For me, my limits do not equate to my disinterest.
Many of my limits do have my interest. Learning about them, the thinking and behavior invloved, and those who partake in what I do not.
Simply, my limits are things which I do not choose to participate in. Some will not change, some may depending on my reasons for establishing each as a limit.

My disinterest in something also, is not the sole basis for establishing a limit for myself, however, in some cases there stands for reason a greater likelyhood., as my disinterest in a subject would not usually inspire the motivation to educate myself to a responsible level of participation.

< Message edited by szobras -- 3/20/2007 10:59:46 AM >

(in reply to CrazyC)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 11:58:44 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

If it was not *meant* to be manipulative then it won't be and that's where communication of *why* it is a limit comes into play.  However, some people list a disinterest as a limit, something they would never, ever do for phychological, moral or physical issues just as a means to avoid the activity. 

Example...

Say WhiplashSmile was my submissive.  He has no interest in gas masks.  I love them.  He tells me they are a hard limit of his simply because he doesn't want to do deal with them, not because they actually are a limit.  It removes something from my arsenal because I will respect a limit.  I could use it as play or punishment as is my right as the dominant if it were not a limit.  But his using it as a limit when it is not is manipulating the dynamic to be more favorable to him. 


Nicely explained, Kat!!!  I've ran into the same thing myself once or twice and it was only because I like to probe....such an opening for a Groucho line there...that I was able to ascertain that it was not a limit because of physical or mental or moral repugnance but just because they did not like it.  I told them that they were then using the limits list to manipulate the play into being all in their favor.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 12:27:15 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		For me, I have all sorts of limits but I doubt any are cast in stone.

It is a limit of mine to permanently mark a submissive and yet I hope to do that one day.  So if "jill" was to ask about branding, I would say I don't do that.  In reality I mean, it isn't something I would do until I had spent enough years with someone that I felt it appropriate as I knew the reality was likely to be (as opposed to the fluffy reality) that we were going to spend the rest of  our lives bonded.

Using floggers is a submissive act to me, I don't use them and it is a hard limit for me.  Again, with the right woman and the right relationship after a number of years, I would gladly break it if I got tired of allowing other dominats to serve her with a flogging.

Bottom line is limits change for me, both mine and whomever is serving me.  They are rarely as inflexible as people think they are and often they find limits where they never expected to find them and those end up being more inflexible than any others.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 12:33:01 PM   
curiouslyseeking


Posts: 924
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

For me, I have all sorts of limits but I doubt any are cast in stone.

It is a limit of mine to permanently mark a submissive and yet I hope to do that one day.  So if "jill" was to ask about branding, I would say I don't do that.  In reality I mean, it isn't something I would do until I had spent enough years with someone that I felt it appropriate as I knew the reality was likely to be (as opposed to the fluffy reality) that we were going to spend the rest of  our lives bonded.

Using floggers is a submissive act to me, I don't use them and it is a hard limit for me.  Again, with the right woman and the right relationship after a number of years, I would gladly break it if I got tired of allowing other dominats to serve her with a flogging.

Bottom line is limits change for me, both mine and whomever is serving me.  They are rarely as inflexible as people think they are and often they find limits where they never expected to find them and those end up being more inflexible than any others.


Curiosity Limit Alert....
 
An inquiring mind has got to know why using a flogger is a hard limit for a Dominant..

....(And to stay on topic ....considered not just as a disinterest)...


< Message edited by curiouslyseeking -- 3/20/2007 12:34:17 PM >

_____________________________

"The ultimate freedom is the freedom to choose to have no choice"


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 1:02:58 PM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		This is sort of interesting.  I've always found it hard to explain what my 'limits' were, because I felt like I would eventually reach a point in the relationship where limits were only moral and practical boundaries...not defined by my preferences.  My Dominant and I talk about the stuff we have done and the things we will do.  We are both having wonderful new experiences together.  I feel that as long as we are communicating and being honest, maybe going through a checklist to tell him what he cannot do to me is not that productive.   Refering to thing you prefer not to do as a 'limit' is not a great way to communicate your ideas.  But if there is more discussion while your relationship is developing it wouldn't cause major confusion.

< Message edited by junecleaver -- 3/20/2007 1:05:22 PM >

_____________________________


"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 2:39:13 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		This has been a very interesting thread to read.

I am one of those that views limits and disinterest very differently in terms of limits are not going to happen out of safety whether mental, physical or to the relationship and disinterest are things that do little or nothing for me personally but I am willing to do. Personally, for my view only, this is one factor I view sub/slave difference that doing something that did zero for the person in the immediate sense, not long term, would have no consideration whether a limit or not to a slave and a Master should not factor into doing or not. In fact I have found I am drawn to people who can do things or make me do things that they know do nothing short term for me as I think it gives me a great overall demonstration and security that I truly am in a power exchange relationship.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to junecleaver)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 7:57:54 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

I think being introspective about limits is quite healthy.  I was on another forum recently had this same thought over a particular type of play that was being discussed.  I think it is equally important to know *why* a limit is a limit as it is to know it exists for you in the first place.  It is something I ask about to potentials also.  Because I have found people who list disinterests as limits and that, to me, is a bit manipulative.


Really? I don't think of it that way. I view the disinterest stuff as things you haven't done and don't feel any desire to try. And that the people who do this are probably not edge players and therefore have a much smaller comfort zone than the edge players/tried everything under the sun group are.

Plus there's the difference between things you are willing to try with a person you have come to know and trust and a much smaller group of things you are willing to do with someone new.

I think it's wise to limit a lot of stuff when new, and then be allowed to think about it and tell your dom/me when you feel that you could handle it. Not manipulation but self preservation.


(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 8:31:23 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

For me, I have all sorts of limits but I doubt any are cast in stone.

It is a limit of mine to permanently mark a submissive and yet I hope to do that one day.  So if "jill" was to ask about branding, I would say I don't do that.  In reality I mean, it isn't something I would do until I had spent enough years with someone that I felt it appropriate as I knew the reality was likely to be (as opposed to the fluffy reality) that we were going to spend the rest of  our lives bonded.

Using floggers is a submissive act to me, I don't use them and it is a hard limit for me.  Again, with the right woman and the right relationship after a number of years, I would gladly break it if I got tired of allowing other dominats to serve her with a flogging.

Bottom line is limits change for me, both mine and whomever is serving me.  They are rarely as inflexible as people think they are and often they find limits where they never expected to find them and those end up being more inflexible than any others.


Curiosity Limit Alert....
 
An inquiring mind has got to know why using a flogger is a hard limit for a Dominant..

....(And to stay on topic ....considered not just as a disinterest)...



Correct me if I am wrong, SimplyMichael, but I would imagine it has to do with the fact that said person is beating the other person silly with them, allowing her to derive 100% of the enjoyment from being flogged, while the Tops arm gets tired.

I can understand it being a limit, but it does not happen to be one of mine.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to curiouslyseeking)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 8:58:17 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Bingo!

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 9:25:07 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

If it was not *meant* to be manipulative then it won't be and that's where communication of *why* it is a limit comes into play.  However, some people list a disinterest as a limit, something they would never, ever do for phychological, moral or physical issues just as a means to avoid the activity. 

Example...

Say WhiplashSmile was my submissive.  He has no interest in gas masks.  I love them.  He tells me they are a hard limit of his simply because he doesn't want to do deal with them, not because they actually are a limit.  It removes something from my arsenal because I will respect a limit.  I could use it as play or punishment as is my right as the dominant if it were not a limit.  But his using it as a limit when it is not is manipulating the dynamic to be more favorable to him. 


Nicely explained, Kat!!!  I've ran into the same thing myself once or twice and it was only because I like to probe....such an opening for a Groucho line there...that I was able to ascertain that it was not a limit because of physical or mental or moral repugnance but just because they did not like it.  I told them that they were then using the limits list to manipulate the play into being all in their favor.
Ahh...but maybe they did not like it because they did not understand its connotations or exactly what it entailed...sometimes figuring out a depth of a limit and what the other feels about it needs first to be explored..as you did with finding it was not a moral ,mental, physical repugnance...but was it simply a disinterest or was it ignorance?Was their previous experience a bad one? Once again communication, and understanding on both sides of the slash comes into play here.....Tempting

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 9:38:25 PM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

I think it's wise to limit a lot of stuff when new, and then be allowed to think about it and tell your dom/me when you feel that you could handle it. Not manipulation but self preservation.


That's all well and good but not really the scenario I am talking about.  Sure there is self preservation and I think that falls into other categories of limits as previously discussed.  This is also why I think reasons for limits should be discussed as well as the actual limits themselves.  If such a thing as you cite occurred then the dom and sub would know that while it may not be right *now* that it may be open for discussion later.  Or it may be something that needs to be explored or examined before trying.  The "questionables" so to speak.

What I am talking about are those who purposely list a limit with the intention of manipulating the type of play toward that which they enjoy when they know well and good that it is not really a limit.  It happens. 

My entire point I was trying to make was in regard to introspection.  To make sure you know why a limit is a limit...and there are a zillion reasons why it could be.  When in a relationship, it is best to be able to communicate that to your dominant also.  


_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Disinterest? - 3/20/2007 10:07:20 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Limits - things that aren't going to happen and if you do them, or try to pressure me to do them, we are done playing. Examples: anyone under age 18 (or age of consent in the country we might be in). Live ammunition. Castration (I'm a switch, remember!). Intentionally causing damage which requires a doctor's care (like breaking bones on purpose).

Disinterests - eh, don't care about it, no big deal. Things like ordering someone to increase their diet so that they balloon up in weight. (Yes, I've been asked to do it before). Nose bondage.

Dislikes - things I don't like to do. I can handle them, I've done some of them before, but I don't like them. Receiving canes. Candle waxing (giving or receiving). Some forms of humiliation (racial slurs, religious slurs).

Interests - activities I like. Needles, fire play, rope bondage, caning people, mummification.

I expect my Dom not to try to do something I've listed as a limit. Sometimes, we come up against a limit I didn't realize I had - after communication, it gets added to the limits list. If my Dom wants to do something on my limits list with me, he will talk with me. If I consent, we do it. If I don't - the fact that it is on my limits list means I do NOT consent to do it. Period. If he does it, he is not engaging in consensual activity.

Now, my limits with M are rather limited. There are things that I consent to having him do that I will not let ANYONE else try. For example, making me wear a head harness gag. I get panic attacks and freak out. I trust M enough that if he brought it out, I know he would give me a way to safeword and would remove it when I safeworded. In return, he trusts me enough to know that I won't safeword just because I don't like it.

However, with the average, run of the mill playpartner, I have more limits. No gags. No penetrative sex that isn't agreed to beforehand. No face slapping.

As a top, I have different limits for my clients than for my personal play partners.

To me, there is play that is just for the bottom, or that is mutually for bottom and top. Like a spanking. Two people both like spanking, they both enjoy the process. It is for both of them.

But there is also activity that is just for one or just for the other. A long, drawn out flogging with heavy thuddy floggers is all for the bottom if I'm the top. I get very little out of it.

And if Sir canes me, it's all for him. I don't like canes.

But the best play, in my mind, is when there is an overlap of interests but the bottom submits - they consent to allow anything not on their limits. Suddenly, the bottom knows that what is coming might be good, but it might not. They have agreed to not just things that they like, but to endure and try to bear up and not safeword through things that they don't like also. And that, to me, is the best scene.

Giving pleasure with pain, taking pleasure but also enduring as a service and out of devotion and submission...that's awesome.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Disinterest? - 3/21/2007 7:25:07 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

If it was not *meant* to be manipulative then it won't be and that's where communication of *why* it is a limit comes into play.  However, some people list a disinterest as a limit, something they would never, ever do for phychological, moral or physical issues just as a means to avoid the activity. 

Example...

Say WhiplashSmile was my submissive.  He has no interest in gas masks.  I love them.  He tells me they are a hard limit of his simply because he doesn't want to do deal with them, not because they actually are a limit.  It removes something from my arsenal because I will respect a limit.  I could use it as play or punishment as is my right as the dominant if it were not a limit.  But his using it as a limit when it is not is manipulating the dynamic to be more favorable to him. 


Nicely explained, Kat!!!  I've ran into the same thing myself once or twice and it was only because I like to probe....such an opening for a Groucho line there...that I was able to ascertain that it was not a limit because of physical or mental or moral repugnance but just because they did not like it.  I told them that they were then using the limits list to manipulate the play into being all in their favor.


Ahh...but maybe they did not like it because they did not understand its connotations or exactly what it entailed...sometimes figuring out a depth of a limit and what the other feels about it needs first to be explored..as you did with finding it was not a moral ,mental, physical repugnance...but was it simply a disinterest or was it ignorance?Was their previous experience a bad one? Once again communication, and understanding on both sides of the slash comes into play here.....Tempting


Good point, Tempting and one that I failed to note. 

Yes, we did discuss where and how her disinterest had come about.  It turned out that she had tried it several times and had no problem with it, it just did not interest her so she'd decided to list it as a limit thinking that, since it was listed as a limit, that it would just be accepted as such and she would not have to discuss it any further and could avoid having to do something that held zero interest for her.  THAT is when I told her that she was manipulating the play list to her likes and wants.

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 39
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