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When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it take? - 3/20/2007 6:05:48 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

A recent thread on a D/s relationship losing it's D/s element prompted this question:

How many of you have been in relationships that began is vanilla (or possibly just the sharing of kink in the bedroom) and evolved over time into
D/s, M/s, or TPE, etc?

Along the same lines - when meeting someone new or starting a new relationship with someone who you know is your potential D/s counterpart, do you begin D/s from the start or cover the vanilla parts first and then move into it? Or maybe they are simultaneous for you? I'd enjoy hearing your experiences.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

Post #: 1

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 6:09:16 PM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
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D/s from the start. 100% of the time.

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 2

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 6:14:33 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

How many of you have been in relationships that began is vanilla (or possibly just the sharing of kink in the bedroom) and evolved over time into
D/s, M/s, or TPE, etc?

*raises a hand* we began as vanilla and quickly progressed to d/s, when we realized it was something we both enjoyed.

quote:

Along the same lines - when meeting someone new or starting a new relationship with someone who you know is your potential D/s counterpart, do you begin D/s from the start or cover the vanilla parts first and then move into it? Or maybe they are simultaneous for you? I'd enjoy hearing your experiences.

i don't really separate "d/s" from "vanilla" in terms of life and activities, because our d/s is inherent in everything i do. however, when i'm talking to people who i might eventually date or play with, i enjoy having non-sexual, non-kinky discussions to start out with. people who immediately jump into the sex and kink make me a bit uncomfortable, honestly.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 3

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 7:48:36 PM

Celeste43

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline

Simultaneous from the start. I needed to connect with him as friends before I could consider playing and I was looking for a dominant man who enjoyed bondage. We connected on all levels and are still very happy together. We talked about everything under the sun in conversations that included sex, how to fix the garage door, where we preferred going on vacations and anything else you could think of.

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 4

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 7:58:51 PM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

A recent thread on a D/s relationship losing it's D/s element prompted this question:

How many of you have been in relationships that began is vanilla (or possibly just the sharing of kink in the bedroom) and evolved over time into
D/s, M/s, or TPE, etc?

Along the same lines - when meeting someone new or starting a new relationship with someone who you know is your potential D/s counterpart, do you begin D/s from the start or cover the vanilla parts first and then move into it? Or maybe they are simultaneous for you? I'd enjoy hearing your experiences.

Greetings

I met Master the first time at the airport; both of our planes had been delayed and we struck up a conversation. I acted, from the very start with him, the same way I had acted with others all my life. I was not consciously looking to meet up with another; he just happened to be there

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 5

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 8:26:59 PM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
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In my head, I always thought I would get to know someone in a vanilla context and then move into a D/s structured relationship. It still seems like the logical thing to do, but it never works that way in real life for me. Saying 'we're in a D/s relationship now.' was just acknowledging with words what had been the overtone of our relationship from the beginning. Whatever works, works. If at some point, I need to develop those aspects of the relationship separately, then I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 6

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 8:37:13 PM

completenz

Posts: 315
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline

hi
We met here so i guess D/s helped us find each other.

We both wanted something more, however, so we spent some time establishing a vanilla relationship as well.
C & c

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 7

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 9:04:29 PM

RPutnamJr

Posts: 176
Joined: 3/17/2006
Status: offline

The problem with your question is that it does not take into account people who are vanilla to start with and then move into a D/s M/s relationship. After all by posing the question to all of us, I would argue that we have all in one way shape or form been in D/s M/s types of relationships. Thus we can go from vanilla to chocolate very quickly.

I usually work on both, usually slower on the chocolate side of things unless I know the other person has experience with those things. Even then I usually move along slower there since I believe alot of what we do on the kinky side of things takes trust. And trust can only be brought about with time and an eventual leap of faith.

Since time is a major element when it comes to building trust, I do tend to spend more time working on the vanilla aspect of things when building a relationship than on the chocolate side of things. But I also work on the chocolate side concurrently. After all if you are dating a sub/slave as a Dom/me, if you don't show them your dominant side then they will consider you weak. Thus if you do not establish some sort of dominance right of the bat then you can quickly loose their interest.

Now when dealing with a vanilla person it is usually better to bring them along slowly in my opinion. After all they are not usually used to being dominated. And they may not be used to some of the kinkier things we do. Thus they have no idea of their limits, so I find it is easier to start off with basics and work your way up with them. This is where being able to train is very important.

The ability to train is both important with vanilla and experienced D/s M/s people. How fast you progress is dependant upon how fast they learn and submit. Then you must also take into account their willingness to learn. And also what you are actually teaching them.

After all if I'm teaching someone to walk on my left vs my right, that is something easy to teach. To teach them proper protocols that you wish them to follow such as kneeling then the vanilla person my have more problems with the concept than someone more experienced with kneeling before their master.

Ultimately how long it takes is totally dependant upon the person you are trying to train. I don't think you will get very far making a dominant vanilla person to submit totally to your will if they have been raised not to submit at all and to show their dominance instead. On the other hand you might get them to submit faster if the person is submissive in nature.

This being said nobody can truely answer your question truthfully, unless they tell you about how they became Dominant/submissive in the first place. After all every relationship since then has built upon prior experiences and thus is easier to slip back into their natural order of things from vanilla relationships.

Which based on all the current responses so far I have based my conclusion on. And what is a vanilla relationship to those that practice the D/s M/s relationship to various degrees 24/7? After all if you are naturally Dominant/submissive then you exhibit even in your vanilla life certain characteristics that either attract or repel those around you. A dominant is more likely to take charge of a situation while a submissive is more likely to accept their dominance.

A vanilla person might fall on either side of the spectrum but ultimately they are one or the other in some way. Thus the question becomes when or how do you introduce the vanilla person into a D/s M/s relationship? My answer to that is through training. Baby steps.

Now what are Baby Steps with a vanilla person? I would say simple bondage, a simple spanking, teaching basic protocols, etc. Once you know how they react then you can have some sort of idea of their likes/dislikes. I would not progress a vanilla person straight into a whipping or flogging prior to the simple spanking. Just as I would not do the same with a more experienced person prior to trust being built up.

Again it comes back down to the individual person, their experience, and your ability to train.

< Message edited by RPutnamJr -- 3/20/2007 9:09:12 PM >

(in reply to junecleaver)

Post #: 8

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/20/2007 11:33:39 PM

michaels4evr

Posts: 184
Joined: 8/8/2006
Status: offline

ahhh..but what happens when the Dominant is the vanilla that is has discovered D/s for the first time through His relationship with the submissive partner? Who trains Him? I came out to Master as a kinky person very early in our relationship, after our first vanilla date actually. I couldn't see wasting His or my valuable time if He had no interest in lifestyle. As He is naturally Dominant, He quickly learned some of the basics and we found that we were pretty compatible on a basic D/s level. However, as the more experienced partner I have a much wider range of interests at this point. I prefer to allow Him to "find His D/s mojo" rather than attempt to "train" Him to my liking, if that could even occur. Even if it could, it just wouldn't work for our dynamic..so I guess to the original poster..I don't yet know how long it takes..at least in this relationship. Although we are a M/s couple, there is much we haven't yet dabbled in together..protocol as well S/M.. We are still on our journey.

(in reply to RPutnamJr)

Post #: 9

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 12:16:16 AM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

First things first, maybe the question would better be asked, "At what point did the power exchange officially begin, as opposed to the D/s undertones/overtones?" Surely, even you Mstrjx, who say "D/s from the start 100% of the time" don't send a contract to be signed before the first date and expect complete obedience to your rules from the first second. I am using this hyperbole cause it sounds silly, is silly. None of us are "instant D/s" even if the feelings of D/s are there from the start. There is too much to be hashed out as far as negotiation (if one believes in such a thing)...my negotiation is ongoing and will be until we reach a point where we draw up some sort of formal agreement, if ever. For now, at 7 months, we continue to feel each other out but since we are long distance most of the time it inherently moves more slowly. Ah, June....I'll return home for good. Now, to reply to RPutnamJr...

quote:

ORIGINAL: RPutnamJr

The problem with your question is that it does not take into account people who are vanilla to start with and then move into a D/s M/s relationship. After all by posing the question to all of us, I would argue that we have all in one way shape or form been in D/s M/s types of relationships. Thus we can go from vanilla to chocolate very quickly.

Ok...not sure I follow you here. How did I "not take into account people who are vanilla to start with and then move..." if that's the very question I asked? Can you clarify?

quote:

I usually work on both, usually slower on the chocolate side of things unless I know the other person has experience with those things. Even then I usually move along slower there since I believe alot of what we do on the kinky side of things takes trust. And trust can only be brought about with time and an eventual leap of faith.

That's true enough in my experience.

quote:

After all if you are dating a sub/slave as a Dom/me, if you don't show them your dominant side then they will consider you weak. Thus if you do not establish some sort of dominance right of the bat then you can quickly loose their interest.

Whoa! Hold up a second. I have found this to be the opposite of the truth in my situation. I tried establishing some dominance with my boyfriend - who is a more experienced sub than I am dom - from the start, only to be told that his submission takes time. Everytime I attempted to be more dominant he only pushed back harder. And when I took steps to establish some dominance by doing and saying things that expressed my dom side, he actually felt violated because I was asking things of him that he had not agreed to and he felt like I was trying to force myself on him if that makes any sense. Everything started to change when I just chilled to fuck out and let him be my "boyfriend" and not my sub. The next thing I knew we started discovering things about ourselves that we had not previously explored and now my boyfriend is my little girl as well and the D/s certainly there but in an agreed-upon manifestation and not because I had to be big bad macho dom from the start. That type of behavior, on his part, was considered obnoxious and just being his girlfriend for a while did not cause me to become weak in his eyes. I think that your statement might hold truth for some but certainly is not the rule. Speaking from the other side of the slash as well, the experience I had as a sub, way back in the day, only acts to enforce the same belief in me. That is, men who are "your Dom" from moment one turn out to be assholes. But I know THAT is a highly unpopular stance, and I'm not claiming it to be truth, only my truth.

quote:

Which based on all the current responses so far I have based my conclusion on. And what is a vanilla relationship to those that practice the D/s M/s relationship to various degrees 24/7? After all if you are naturally Dominant/submissive then you exhibit even in your vanilla life certain characteristics that either attract or repel those around you. A dominant is more likely to take charge of a situation while a submissive is more likely to accept their dominance.

Oy! I can't believe the subs didn't catch this one before I did. Come on now, how many of the submissive men or women that you know exhibit this follower, as opposed to leader, mentality in everyday life? I can name mine on one hand. All of the organizations I belong to are headed by subs, boys, slaves, girls, pups, and others who fall on a that side of the slash. I am SO not going along with this one. In fact, I think that there is just as wide a spectrum of socially dominant and submissive traits to be found in plain old nillas as there are in us. Dominance and submission, after all, are not limited to our type of lifestyle but occur on an everyday basis in vanilla life. There is little to no correlation between the way someone acts in work or school and the way they behave in the bedroom.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to michaels4evr)

Post #: 10

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 4:36:35 AM

jaunty1

Posts: 102
Joined: 3/20/2007
Status: offline

quote:

First things first, maybe the question would better be asked, "At what point did the power exchange officially begin, as opposed to the D/s undertones/overtones?"

I will be honest. When I first met Melissa, a huge attraction was the fact that she was raised in a military style environment. Her father is and was a very controlling person. So, I can honestly say that from the first moment we started talking, there was an exchange going on. Perhaps the fact that I was in the military at the time had something to do with it, I don't know. I never bothered to ask her about it. Neither one of us ever sat down to discuss what kind of relationship we were going to have. We just let it flow naturally. This has given us a chance to find our own way of doing things, instead of trying to do things the way others would. It works nicely for us.

Live well,

Alex

_____________________________

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 11

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 5:49:48 AM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass
How many of you have been in relationships that began is vanilla (or possibly just the sharing of kink in the bedroom) and evolved over time into
D/s, M/s, or TPE, etc?

Oh, i used to try doing this all the time, especially way back in the days before the internet when we had to just meet the "old fashioned" way, by chance or through work, school, friends, etc. It never worked out for me. i would meet a really nice guy, cute, fun, lots of common interests and attraction with each other, great sex, etc. We would get along woderfully and everything would be very hopeful and promising, but within a very short amount of time (a few weeks, at most), i was just wishing he would take all the clues i was dropping everywhere and take charge of me and the relationship and put me over his knee and spank my ass, and slap my face and push onto the bed or floor and tell me to _____________, etc., and tell me that HE was in charge and i was going to do what he said or i could just leave. That was all he had to do and i would have been putty in his hands and he could have had a slave for life. But, it would never happen and i would end up feeling soooooo frustrated and i would end up telling him that it wasn't going to work for us and that would be the end of that relationship and then i would be out starting my search all over again. i didn't want to be the one to have to tell him to do this. That would be too much like i was controlling things. i just wanted a man who would naturally want to take charge and would do it on his own.

quote:

Along the same lines - when meeting someone new or starting a new relationship with someone who you know is your potential D/s counterpart, do you begin D/s from the start or cover the vanilla parts first and then move into it? Or maybe they are simultaneous for you? I'd enjoy hearing your experiences.

Now, i only look for D/s right from the start. i tried to do it the other way around and it just isn't worth the time, energy, and frustration to look for anything else and try to make it into D/s. The D/s aspect is what's most important for me to feel content in a relationship. Without it, nothing else even matters. We might be good friends without the D/s but that's all. i know what i need and that is to feel that i am owned by a very Dominant man (period, exclamation mark). Everything else is secondary. There are enough Dominant men in the world, that it's not hard to find one that is compatible in all the other areas, but without that very basic, primal need being met first, the other stuff doesn't even matter.

slave joy
Owned property of Master David

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 12

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 6:18:45 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

A recent thread on a D/s relationship losing it's D/s element prompted this question:

How many of you have been in relationships that began is vanilla (or possibly just the sharing of kink in the bedroom) and evolved over time into
D/s, M/s, or TPE, etc?

Along the same lines - when meeting someone new or starting a new relationship with someone who you know is your potential D/s counterpart, do you begin D/s from the start or cover the vanilla parts first and then move into it? Or maybe they are simultaneous for you? I'd enjoy hearing your experiences.

Valyraen and I started dating in a rather vanilla context. I did explain to him that I was a submissive and we had some rather nice kinky sex. However, it was a little over six months later when we began talking about it and we made the transition to a full time 24/7 d/s relationship.

Edited to answer another question that came up.

For the most part I always obeyed him. It is my nature and he certainly didn't mind. As time when by and I knew him better and better, he gained more and more of my submission. I do not think I would start a relationship as a full d/s relationship.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 3/21/2007 6:21:54 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 13

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 6:30:19 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

Daddy and i met as vanillas yet we don't live the D/s part to us 24/7 because we prefer to keep that side to us private due to working constantly in the public eye (He's a doctor and i'm media) and have outside interests that don't involve BDSM. to answer your question, how long did it take for us to move one to the other - well i believe it doesn't go away automatically when you move into the D/s side to your relationship. we both function as vanillas and chocolates equally since it's our belief one cannot survive without the other. we share similar tastes, interests and dislikes plus communication which keeps both relationships going strong and evolving as we grow together as Daddy and daughter.

the same criteria applies since i'm allowed to meet and date others. i would prefer start off as a vanilla seeking friendhsip and if the other has similar kinks and tastes as i do, perhaps it could lead to something more down the road.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

Post #: 14

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 7:20:06 AM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

OUR relationship started as vanilla even tho both of us was in the lifestyle for years..AS soon as I saw her I knew she was for me...A sassy little wench from the start....WE share the good life living and loving in the mountains..For those that have asked how a married Dom couple works in this lifestyle,very carefully ,there are land mines that need to be avoided,giving and taking some times more giving then taking on both our parts...bounty

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 15

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 7:49:20 AM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

i met Mine as we were both vanilla. D/s was natural to us both, there just wasnt a name on it [yet]. D/s was something that naturally evolved in the bedroom and service and pleasing had always been my way. eventually we learned about bdsm and i met TPE through www.takeninhand.com

is wasnt long before TPE by itself wasnt enough and i was collared 4 months after we started to date.

if i was to ever attempt a M/s/D/s relationship again, needs on a vanilla plane come first because well, we dont say "hey slave, yes Sir" stuff in public. i dont want dynamic to be the sole base of a relationship, but in the future even though vanilla connection is mandatory, i wont bother trying to make it without knowing they are into TPE etc

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)

Post #: 16

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 8:28:23 AM

WhiplashSmile

Posts: 1472
Joined: 6/8/2004
Status: offline

I'm going to be a Smart Ass here.
The concept of D/s dynamics is in the Vanilla world too...
D/s is just not a BDSM exclusive it's been going on for thousdands of years.

D/s is just a nice clearly defined label that us BDSMers have to make
everything very clear. We kind of have one leg up on the vanilla world
in terms of this.

There are many problems in Vanilla relations with unclear power struggles.
Over D/s and who's in charge of what, who given up what control to who.

I think if you look close you'll see D/s working just find in many Vanilla
homes. However, they find it disturbing to here about Domination and
submission. As if those are dirty words. Everybody wants to feel that
everybody is equal and in equal power. It's polically correct to hide
behind this idealism.

Some Nillas have heavy D/s dynamics, some of the extreme right wing
christians have heavy D/s working relationships. Where the man is in
control and the wife is submissive.

< Message edited by WhiplashSmile -- 3/21/2007 8:31:32 AM >

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 17

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 8:49:54 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

[quoteEverybody wants to feel that
everybody is equal and in equal power. It's polically correct to hide
behind this idealism.
][/quote]
greetings

not necessarily. You ask either of my parents who is in charge and they will both answer my father. You ask them if their relationship is based on equality,and my mother will be the first to laugh in your face and say no way. Just for the reference, my mother is a surgeon, my father is retired military who now builds houses in his spare time.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)

Post #: 18

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 11:19:16 AM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

[quoteEverybody wants to feel that
everybody is equal and in equal power. It's polically correct to hide
behind this idealism.
]

greetings

not necessarily. You ask either of my parents who is in charge and they will both answer my father. You ask them if their relationship is based on equality,and my mother will be the first to laugh in your face and say no way. Just for the reference, my mother is a surgeon, my father is retired military who now builds houses in his spare time.

I wish you well

melissa

I hear you there. In my house growing up, it was my mom who was in charge. My stepfather's standard line is "You know me, if you're mom's happy then I'm happy." I actually realized later when I learned more about power exchange (as opposed to kinky sex) that I had been living in nearly a TPE situation all through my childhood and teenage years. Mom's word was final and my stepdad seemed fine with that. I've been "out" to my mom about my lifestyle for a while and she totally understands, being a dom herself. Though she never would have self-identified and her relationship is not "kinky." It's just that she's the boss.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 19

RE: When D/s springs from vanilla -or- how long does it... - 3/21/2007 11:24:37 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
Status: offline

Greetings Domina

LOL, I find it interesting that many don't see the parrallels in their own growing up to how it is that they now live their own lives. Ours was much like yours, except, my father was very much in charge lol; something that all of us were very well aware of. I remember once asking my mother how they managed to make it work so well with each of them being so strong willed and she answered ' it's because your father let's me think that we are equal, and because I let him think that he is superior." My father, when he heard this thought it was quite humorous.
/grins

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 20

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