Animal Rights (Full Version)

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KenDckey -> Animal Rights (3/20/2007 8:41:05 PM)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070320/od_nm/germany_polarbear1_dc_1

Here a guy is saving a polar bear that the animal rights people say he should have probably killed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070320/sc_nm/usa_navy_whales_dc_3

Here the Animal Rights people are sueing the Navy on behalf of whales and dolphins because they think the Navy might have injured them.

What confuses me is the inconsistency.  Polar Bears are nearing extention yet they wanted to kill it.  Whales also are nearing extension and want to figure out if the Navy is harming them.   Why not just try to save both?



Invictus754 -> RE: Animal Rights (3/20/2007 9:02:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

What confuses me is the inconsistency.  Polar Bears are nearing extention yet they wanted to kill it.  Whales also are nearing extension and want to figure out if the Navy is harming them.   Why not just try to save both?


What is Extention (or extension, you spelled it two different ways)?
 
1) Are you possibly trying to say "extinction"?
 
2) Scientists have guestimated that 95% of all known species are extinct (like dinosaurs, and flora from the mesozoic era, etc.).  So what if a few more bite the dust?  How will it affect me, and why should I care if polar bears die off?  We still have Grizzly Bears, Black Bears and Yogi bear.



KenDckey -> RE: Animal Rights (3/20/2007 9:50:26 PM)

sorry about the splling   I never could spell worth a darn.   

Beats me about what they are thinking.   During Katrina some animal rights people that I know were more worried about the dogs and cats than the people in New Orleans.  And they were blatant about it. 



SimplyMichael -> RE: Animal Rights (3/20/2007 10:05:01 PM)

This is a very complex issue.  First of all, there is a vast difference between those who love "cats and dogs"  and those who have a broader view of animal rights.

Some animal rights people oppose zoos, some support them.  Some feel that exposing people to animals so they care more about them outweighs the injustice of imprisoning them.  Others believe that any interference is wrong and the "means don't justify the ends".

Despite all the violence carried out against laboratories and other direct action in favor of animal rights, I don't think there has even been a single human injury.  I am not supporting that approach just pointing out that if they put animal rights over humans, they wouldn't worry about killing anyone.

While I support animal rights as a broad concept, I also believe that if it wasn't for hunters, especially duck hunters, many more animals would be extinct.

As the science of the brain advances, they are finding more and more evidence that animal brains function very much like ours.  Did you know they use Prozak to treat nurotic birds?  That animals conduct warfare?  That many many animals use tools.  We experiment on animals to find out how teenagers will react to emotional stimulus.  Many experiments on human pain are done using animals, if they results apply, what exactly does that mean?

Lastly, to totally derail this thread, I have always thought it was amusing that people use the inability of animals to give consent as the reason the have animal play as a limit.  They don't seem to have the same concern while chowing down on that hamburger!!!



Vendaval -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 12:02:11 AM)

I hear you, KenDckey.  Why not protect them both?
The animals rights groups cover a spectrum of different
beliefs and positions.  Some of their positions on issues
I agree with, others I do not.
 
Zoos are an artificial environment.  Better to let the cub
and other animals born in zoos have care-givers if the mother
is sick and/or not interested in caring for them.  The animals are
not going to be released into the wild anyways.  And they can 
be bred in captivity to improve the genetic diversity for their species.


(Format edit)



ElectraGlide -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 12:11:39 AM)

I cant believe that that tainted dog food mess going on right now, that they tested it on dogs and cats. A few died. Why the hell did they not send the food to a lab, and have scientific experts test it ? Why waste the lives of a few helpless animals.



KenDckey -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 4:40:51 AM)

Electra   It wasn't test animals that died   it was pets.   My sis works for Animal control and that is what she told me.

Michal   Meet you at McDonalds in 5   lol



cjenny -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 4:50:14 AM)

Ive not read the rest of the responses, but in regards to the polar bear the reason they wanted the bear 'dead' was because it would have been a 'natural' death. Abandonment by momma bear in the wild would cause baby bear to die. Its not the way I think, but 'they' say that giving the bears a totally natural life is the only way to go. Funny that no one brought up the fact that other ailing bears have been treated for things over the years, I guess its just baby bears they're after! Its a bit like the way some view in utero surgery, its against the natural way. Bah to them I say!!
The second is actually a bit similar to the first... humans interfering with the natural order. We damaged em, we outta fix em. That one I wholly agree with.



LadyEllen -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:12:39 AM)

I'd like to meet the person who could kill that baby bear. And have them incarcerated in an institution where with time and treatment, they might be able to form some sort of emotional response to the world.

The bear is as cute as hell, and I defy any sane person to not want to cuddle it.

Otherwise I agree with CJenny - if the mother bear hadnt been removed from the natural order and placed in a zoo, maybe she wouldnt have abandoned her offspring, so its not as cut and dried as the animal rights people might like to think. Zoos and safari parks etc have many justified criticisms to answer of course, but their role in protecting species from extinction in the wild (extinction caused by our interference) more than makes up for those.

E



Devilslilsister -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 5:58:06 AM)

Gah - animal rights = (   One of the quickest ways to rile me up.

I liked what Michael said..... well some of it. 

IMO its fucked in the head to do what we do to animals.  i think those that do it, that support it are fucked in the head as well. 

Some where along the lines.. we lost respect for life....  any life.. all life.. just fucking life.  LIFE people, its life - its unique its special - hell each individual life has its own unique strain of DNA.  You cant get any more unique then that.  To treat it so poorly.....  with such carelessness.... with such a lack of respect.... or care...... gah it makes me want to smack some one stupid. 

What makes us as "humans" so special?  Is it are ability to lie, decieve, manipulate, destroy ourselves, create weapons to kill each other for stupid shit like money, hurt others intentionally?  Is it because we can vocalize how fucked in the head we are?  I must concur, we as humans are sooooooooo much better.  Yeah, Ahem - humans have my vote!

I tend to content myself that one day the human race will really wake up.  The human race woke up when it came to the African americans in this country, it woke up when it came to women in this country and one day , it'll wake up when it comes to animals.  Or did we all forget that many of the reasons that it was allowed to treat women and african americans such as we did........ the same reasons we allow the way we treat animals?

I say - that the Native Americans had it right.  They had something we just cant seem to find.......... respect



FirmhandKY -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 7:59:19 AM)

Animals don't have any "rights".  Humans have "rights".

FirmKY



Icarius -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 8:12:05 AM)

All life is sacred and holds the same value. Except in self-defense or defense of another, no one has the right to claim another life, whether it be plant, insect, or animal. I won't even go into the fact that "Humans" are just another offshoot of the animal family, either.



domiguy -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 8:21:46 AM)

When it comes to "animal rights activists"  they are about as polarized in thier beliefs as our lovely little community....The only thing I know (which I have said before).......If God didn't want us to eat animals then they wouldn't be made out of meat!



lockedaway -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 8:31:47 AM)

The only rights that animals have is not to be abused in the course of their service to mankind.  That's it...period.  Animals are a source of food, clothing, service, companionship and medical discovery.  The world is a much better place with animals, there is no doubt about it.  To say that all life is equal, however, is delluded.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 8:35:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarius

All life is sacred and holds the same value. Except in self-defense or defense of another, no one has the right to claim another life, whether it be plant, insect, or animal. I won't even go into the fact that "Humans" are just another offshoot of the animal family, either.


What is a "right" and where does it come from?

FirmKY



ONEDEMANDINGMSTR -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 8:56:29 AM)

Absolutely right ,FirmKY, ! Explain to Me where and how these 'rights' were given. So many animal rights activists are pro-active in many other environmental groups as well and have no concept that animals are just animals. If god gave them inherent rights.............why did he make man more intelligent, inventive, and command us to be in charge??  If we weren't designed to be omniverous what has caused us to be so.??
As far as conservation of wildlife is concerned , no one group of people is more in favor of conservation than hunters and fishermen. In Missouri, somewhere in the 1930's, there were like 250 whitetail deer. Now , we kill in excess of 200,000 per deer season............and they still roam our streets and back yards, just in one state. And by the way , for those of you who say we are killing off species...........they find over 200 new species per year. There is a new panther found just the other day.

 save the whales-sink ships!! 



Aubre -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 9:15:39 AM)

There's plenty of room for all God's creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes.



Icarius -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 9:24:26 AM)

While I see the area you're going towards, "right and wrong is relative", the ending of the life of a lamb is still the ending of a life. All life carries the same value. Yes, we need to eat. Yes, we need to defend ourselves and those we care about. But if we're not fufilling either of these agendas, then we should not be taking a life. Yes, it's legal to go out and shoot a deer for sport. Yes, it would be illegal for someone to shoot you in those same woods. In the end, I suppose it's a matter of your own personal view of life, and what consequences you're willing to take, yourself.



Lashra -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 9:37:41 AM)

Humans are animals that walk upright on two feet. We like to think we are so intellectually superior and when it comes to killing our own kind, deciet, lies, rape, murder, greed etc. you are correct there, we out do animals by far. We have over populated and polluted this planet to the point its almost a toxic waste dump.

It makes me wonder what the next "intellgent" species that takes over after we are all long gone will say about us?

~Lashra



FirmhandKY -> RE: Animal Rights (3/21/2007 9:43:44 AM)

That's not really where I'm coming from, or going to.

Respect and understanding for life other than human is a good thing, in my book.  It's moral.  "Moral" is a self-defined concept based on "beliefs" for most people, and not based on empirical thought or evidence.

My point is that the concept of "rights' are a uniquely human construct, and complex.  Trying to ascribe "rights' to animals confuses the issue, and makes logical constructs - of dubious efficiency or use - easy to bring about and argue over.

FirmKY



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