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Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 12:29:58 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

Hello everyone, I was at a site reading a few posts this morning and as I read I became curious about the choice of adjective's people use to described themselves or their particapation in WIITWD.
I read and have read numerous times on many sites including here at CM adjectives such as; Preverse, Perverted, Perve, Twisted, Evil, Wicked, Depraved, etc.

In sometimes the same breath I read; my very core, the natural me, the way I was born, I have always been this way, I felt compelled the serch for this truth and freedom of the lifestyle, etc. etc.

It triggered thoughts of curiousity for me and I wonder what others think.

Why do some people into WIITWD make such seemingly negative and/or "abnormal" references to desribe themselves?
(I do understand when it is used in jest.)

Do people think about how it may look to the outside world looking in? Do you care?

For myself I feel that power dynamic's are alive in every relationship that exists and it is very natural that's why I think the divorce rate is so high because people dont examine or aren't even aware that power dynamic's exist. I mean I believe that when you get a Domme and a Domme or a submissive and a submisive the odd's are that the relationship is doomed (I know there are exceptions).
None-the-less I do find it "normal" that humans have these desires and needs in relationships and I also find that most of the people that engage in WIITWD are sexually "awake" people, not inhibited to try things new sexually, creative, fun and exceptional people.

Sooooo, why the use of these adjectives to describe ourselves, outside of funning around? Do people think it's helpful to describe or label ourselves and each other in these "demeaning" ways?

Curious....Missy.

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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Post #: 1

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 12:35:09 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I think to some it's shock value. They like being on the edge...not within the majority of society...rebels, etc. So the labels help perpetuate that persona. They want the dark, dangerous, edgy persona.

It's just not as fun to be Sir Softy when you could be Dominant Depraved.

I think with most people who have experience and have examined their feelings, they are realistic and use the adjectives almost tongue in cheek. They might use them to differentiate their activities from vanillas while all the same being perfectly secure in how normal and natural their desires really are.

oops forgot this one"Do people think about how it may look to the outside world looking in? Do you care? "

I don't care to a certain extent but don't go out of my way to make it all PC either. If the outside world had a curiosity about what I do, and are open to it I doubt the adjectives would sway them from learning about it or accepting it for being ok whether they are personally into it or not. If they are opposed to what I do, no matter what fluffier adjectives I used, I doubt it would change someone's opinion that though I say it's normal, it really is twisted.

< Message edited by MsKatHouston -- 3/21/2007 12:38:04 PM >

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 2

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 12:47:02 PM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

do you mean, like that profile i saw earlier today that said "this girl is a dirty fucking bitch of a whore who sucks ass" or what? or "i am Mr MEan going to circumsize my bitch"? [lol]

i always thought they just got off on names, lol

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 3

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 12:49:13 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

A lot of people in the scene really get off on being "naughty" or "different" or "having a secret in plain sight."

Same reason music fans dislike when their fave indy band is suddenly shilling for Diet Coke on commercials- you want to keep it special and yours. If it becomes normal and not a big deal, it loses some of its shininess.

I like being 'different' but I'd much prefer that what I do to be considered not at all a big deal- my difference and sense of identity isn't based on "being different"- it just happens to always end up there.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 4

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 12:51:26 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

For myself I feel that power dynamic's are alive in every relationship that exists and it is very natural that's why I think the divorce rate is so high because people dont examine or aren't even aware that power dynamic's exist. I mean I believe that when you get a Domme and a Domme or a submissive and a submisive the odd's are that the relationship is doomed (I know there are exceptions).

First off I agree very much with this. It is my opinion most regular couples have a power dynamic within the relationship and if it does not work for both of them and especially if they are unaware or unwilling to understand and accept it then many times those relationships do not match. It is a critical part of compatibility in my opinion that very few regular couples ever acknowledge.

In terms of words used, all cultures have slang and it own language, some more then others. The words you call negative are based on another culture and not this. For example, I work in a hospital and if people listened in to the employee conversations and took many of the words we say literally they would not even come close to getting an accurate picture. People not familiar with this life I live looking in on it would not get so many things that go on that subtle word play would mean little to me.

So what might be demeaning to you is a compliment to me. It is about context and the definitions within the culture. Some words I may use and some I may not but you should not assume that the meaning and context are the same as with a Mormon living in Utah.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 5

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 12:56:07 PM

mixielicous

Posts: 1283
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: Boston area, Massachusetts
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

For myself I feel that power dynamic's are alive in every relationship that exists and it is very natural that's why I think the divorce rate is so high because people dont examine or aren't even aware that power dynamic's exist. I mean I believe that when you get a Domme and a Domme or a submissive and a submisive the odd's are that the relationship is doomed (I know there are exceptions).

First off I agree very much with this. It is my opinion most regular couples have a power dynamic within the relationship and if it does not work for both of them and especially if they are unaware or unwilling to understand and accept it then many times those relationships do not match. It is a critical part of compatibility in my opinion that very few regular couples ever acknowledge.

ding ding ding ding ding ding

_____________________________

"lets just say he's a few prawns short of a galaxy"

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 6

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 1:37:00 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

It is also a "I'll call myself that first so you can't" It takes away the power of the word. But is does nothing to dignify the participants and only causes further distancing from those on the "outside" whose acceptance and understanding is hoped for.

I have noticed that the more mature one gets.. the less they have the need to parade themselves

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 7

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 1:41:27 PM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline

I think for some it is the feel of being edgy.

I don't really think of perverted as edgy. I don't think of many edgy BDSM activities as perverted. Knife play? Fire play? Blood play? Breath play? It's not really 'perverted' to me. In a sense, the way my Dominant makes me feel and some of the things he makes me do are very 'perverted' to me and unnatural/uncomfortable at this point in our relationship. As well, I don't necessarily have that negative association with the word perverted. A long time ago the authorities in my life set out a list of what was perverted in front of me. There were a lot of things in the list that I found hot. I actually used the list as wank material when I was in middle school! So I just got acclimated to the fact that inside I was 'perverted,' and that couldn't be so horrible.

When I was explaining WIITWD to the first person I came out to I used the word perverted. She reacted very negatively to this word, because she visualized pedophiles and peeping toms lumped into this category. She asked for further explanation and then thought I should use the word freak.

I care very much about what others think. When I choose to come out to another person, I use the words I think will be the most descriptive and the most accurate---'perverted' may or may not be one of those words. I obviously misjudged with my first attempt, but will now be cautious should I ever explain it to anyone else.

I would say I'm perverted. My Dominant is definitely perverted. I would only view this in a negative light if it lead us to make poor choices.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
--Henry A. Kissinger

(in reply to mixielicous)

Post #: 8

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 2:35:49 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

very well put girl!

CP

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 9

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 2:52:24 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

i've always wondered the same thing. even He sometimes refers to the things we do as perverse, dark, or depraved. it doesn't feel that way to me - to me, the submission is as natural as breathing, and the sexual/s&m activities are what pleases both of us, and i don't think of that as depraved.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 10

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 6:56:11 PM

azzmaster

Posts: 864
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline

my opinion... some people get off on the forbidden,,, y else like scat for instance... i don't... my view is that if men get in touch with themselves they are dominant by nature as are certain women... i m not so much n2 the clothing and protocols of BDSM as the intensity and willingness to be open about sexual matters, and go to extremes. if anyone here ever read the complete kama sutra there is alot that was considered routine in civilized non western socieities that would be BDSM now... present society is very repressive

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 11

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 7:16:34 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

It is also a "I'll call myself that first so you can't" It takes away the power of the word. But is does nothing to dignify the participants and only causes further distancing from those on the "outside" whose acceptance and understanding is hoped for.

I have noticed that the more mature one gets.. the less they have the need to parade themselves

I have to pretty much agree with this statement..however..I am also thinking that the more mature one gets it is not necessarily a lesser need.. just simply the choosier we become in picking the battles that we fight..

...Tempting

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 12

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 11:31:04 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

For myself I feel that power dynamic's are alive in every relationship that exists and it is very natural that's why I think the divorce rate is so high because people dont examine or aren't even aware that power dynamic's exist. I mean I believe that when you get a Domme and a Domme or a submissive and a submisive the odd's are that the relationship is doomed (I know there are exceptions).

First off I agree very much with this. It is my opinion most regular couples have a power dynamic within the relationship and if it does not work for both of them and especially if they are unaware or unwilling to understand and accept it then many times those relationships do not match. It is a critical part of compatibility in my opinion that very few regular couples ever acknowledge.

In terms of words used, all cultures have slang and it own language, some more then others. The words you call negative are based on another culture and not this. For example, I work in a hospital and if people listened in to the employee conversations and took many of the words we say literally they would not even come close to getting an accurate picture. People not familiar with this life I live looking in on it would not get so many things that go on that subtle word play would mean little to me.

So what might be demeaning to you is a compliment to me. It is about context and the definitions within the culture. Some words I may use and some I may not but you should not assume that the meaning and context are the same as with a Mormon living in Utah.

Hi toserve, I'm not saying those words are demeaning to me but are "demeaning" words as they are described in the dictionary. I also try to not assume anything.
I think you misunderstood that part, but thats okay, I was trying to be clear but it wasn't easy to try and express exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for your imput.

Missy.

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 13

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 11:47:59 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

Thanks for all your opinions, they were interesting and I hear a varying ring of truth
in the replies.

When I wrote the OP, I wasn't really meaning the Nic's people use but more how they describe themselves and/or their relationships in their profile or in their post's.

I was thinking too that the words for some of us, the darkness, preverse, depraved, slut, whore, etc., may just hold some mystery, romanticism and eroticism that connects us to WIITWD and was curious what others thought.

Missy.

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 14

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/21/2007 11:51:01 PM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisannabelle

i've always wondered the same thing. even He sometimes refers to the things we do as perverse, dark, or depraved. it doesn't feel that way to me - to me, the submission is as natural as breathing, and the sexual/s&m activities are what pleases both of us, and i don't think of that as depraved.

I think you got what I was trying to say and how I was feeling hisannabelle .

Missy.

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 15

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/22/2007 5:26:14 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

quote:

Do people think about how it may look to the outside world looking in?

I think all the words you used as examples are explicitly looking to the outside world, and in doing so they describe the norm for this subculture. Our media and culture train us what is "normal", and going outside of that can be depraved, dark, etc. But such descriptions lose all meaning without the vanilla reference group just as it doesn't mean anything for a random inmate on death row to describe himself as a "bad ass" because they're all bad asses on death row; that is the norm in there, so it is just a declaration saying "hey -- I'm like you".

< Message edited by happypervert -- 3/22/2007 5:32:08 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 16

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/22/2007 8:22:00 AM

StellaByStarlite

Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

I think all the words you used as examples are explicitly looking to the outside world, and in doing so they describe the norm for this subculture. Our media and culture train us what is "normal", and going outside of that can be depraved, dark, etc. But such descriptions lose all meaning without the vanilla reference group just as it doesn't mean anything for a random inmate on death row to describe himself as a "bad ass" because they're all bad asses on death row; that is the norm in there, so it is just a declaration saying "hey -- I'm like you".

The words she used are also used in a vanilla playful context.. laughing it up and teasing somebody by calling them wicked, or perverse. My own mother often describes her humor as perverse.

Sometimes, if a group of people take a "negative word" and use it for humor, they essentially speak the bad right out of it. "Bitch" is a great example... that used to be a dire insult ( to some it still is), but many women, kinky, vanilla.. hold it up as a badge of honor. Some Afro-Americans drop the N-bomb for that reason.. to deflate it and take the power out of it's original meaning.

Now, in my experience.. these practices only work if you're part of the "in-group". If a vanilla somebody laughed and called you "depraved", would it have the same effect as a Scener? I don't take it at all seriously if somebody chooses to describe themselves in those terms. To me, it's the same as a group of ladies getting together and praising each other's bitchness.

(in reply to happypervert)

Post #: 17

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/22/2007 9:36:13 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brightspot

Hi toserve, I'm not saying those words are demeaning to me but are "demeaning" words as they are described in the dictionary. I also try to not assume anything.
I think you misunderstood that part, but thats okay, I was trying to be clear but it wasn't easy to try and express exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for your imput.

Missy.

I got what you were meaning. My point being that words within a different culture and context have different weight and meaning, so words like regular people use as a negative judgment and/or taken from the dictionary meaning cannot and should not be used as some base point when a culture like ours is there and with any other culture that has so many double meanings based on how and who is saying something.

I like many who have wrote scratch my head when people within this life seem to use demeaning words when literally describing this life, but this is such a minority. Most of the time the words that people often use that have been bantered around when filtered through context and atmosphere have loss the demeaning literal definition and tone and are often left more about a common language within the life as a way to better communicate.

So when people in this life refer to “abnormal”, “perverted”, “evil” and other terms like this there is not a judgment of we are unhealthy mentally or are immoral but they are words used to convey a personality or atmosphere to the people using the terms. Many of these terms are just slang within this life. You do not think when a person uses “that is sick” when seeing something that really impressed them as demeaning or there is something wrong with it, but within that person’s culture and context it is a compliment.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 18

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/22/2007 11:46:22 AM

brightspot

Posts: 3052
Status: offline

Yes, toserve I know what you are saying.

Missy.

_____________________________

"Comedy is NOT Pretty!" ~Peter Nelson

But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

http://360.yahoo.com/my_profile-TD4TwEw8crWS3GHFDcs_DK1rHmW6Dq_E;_ylt=Av2PfG9gH0wkQrMPivuMCivGAOJ3

(in reply to toservez)

Post #: 19

RE: Curious To Know. - 3/22/2007 12:19:33 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

~grinning~ Very interesting and fun thread.

I have no idea why we use those adjectives but I do know I like to use / be called by the "dark" nouns as pet names. Master seems rather pleased with me calling him a nasty mother fucker and my slave sister and I call each other slut and whore. It's all fun. The only thing I don't particularly care for is when Master uses my real name.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to brightspot)

Post #: 20

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