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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 5:19:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Well, since the 8 removed weren't "Loyal Bushies", the remainder must be.

And that's the problem with removing people, and lying about why. When you lie, you have zero credibility going forward, therefore when the Administration says, "These people are honest", why should ANYONE believe them?

What the White House did ( apparently Bush wasn't asked for advice or consent ) has destroyed the credibility of the US Attorneys.

All they are now, is politically reliable flunkies conducting show trials.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 5:32:20 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

All they are now, is politically reliable flunkies conducting show trials.


No, the "show trials" are going on in Congress.

The Plame/Wilson show trial was last week.  Did you miss it?

Looks like the US Attorneys is going on this week.

What's next week?  I know the Congressional Dems have a plan ... need to look up what Murtha has said lately ...

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 6:09:31 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

The calls of Republicans (can you source them, please?) for the resignation of Gonzales


Senator John Sununu of New Hampshire called for U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to be fired, the first Republican senator to demand his ouster over the firing of eight federal prosecutors.

Source: Drudge Report

--------------------


A second Senate Republican stepped forward today to suggest that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales should leave his post because of the way the Justice Department handled the firings of eight federal prosecutors, USA TODAY's Kathy Kiely tells us.

"For the Justice Department to be effective before the U.S. Senate, it would be helpful" if Gonzales resigned, Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Ore., told Kiely.

Meanwhile, GOP Sen. Norm Coleman of Minnesota said he is "deeply concerned about how this whole process has been handled." Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said he was "withholding judgment" on Gonzales' tenure, but characterized the attorney general's explanations for the firings as "unacceptable" and "mystifying."

Wednesday, Sen. John Sununu, R-N.H., told Kiely that "if I were the president, I would fire the attorney general."

Source: USA Today

--------------------


SUNUNU: PRESIDENT BUSH SHOULD FIRE ATTORNEY GENERAL GONZALES

Contact: Barbara Riley/Jeff Grappone
Wednesday, March 14, 2007


WASHINGTON, DC - United States Senator John Sununu (R-NH) today (3/14) recommended that the President fire Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Sununu issued the following statement:

"During the next two years, our nation must address critical questions affecting the investigation, pursuit, and prosecution of terrorism at home and abroad. In this effort, we must have a strong, credible Attorney General who holds the confidence of Congress and the American people.

"I do not believe Alberto Gonzales can fill that role. The President should fire the Attorney General and replace him as soon as possible with someone who can provide strong, aggressive leadership prosecuting the war on terrorism, running the Department of Justice, and working with the President and Congress on important homeland security matters.

"When the Patriot Act was due to be reauthorized two years ago, the Attorney General failed to address bi-partisan concerns early in the process, resulting in a Senate filibuster and unnecessary delays in passing legislation.

"During the same period, the Justice Department gave assurances to Congress with regard to the use of National Security Letters. The recent Inspector General's report has shown that our worst fears regarding the documentation and oversight of National Security Letters were all too real.

"Finally, the Attorney General failed to exercise effective supervision in the recent dismissal of United States Attorneys. These failures have created a deep, widespread lack of confidence in the ability of the Attorney General to effectively serve the President at a very important time."

Source: Senator Sununu

--------------------


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A second congressional Republican on Thursday recommended U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales be replaced in the wake of a political firestorm for the firings of eight federal prosecutors.

A number of Republicans have also voiced concerns. But Sen. Gordon Smith (news, bio, voting record) of Oregon on Thursday became just the second Republican in Congress to signal it was time to replace him.

"He (Smith) has suggested that it would be helpful to have an attorney general that Congress could have more confidence in," a Smith spokesman said. On Wednesday, Republican Sen. John Sununu (news, bio, voting record) of New Hampshire urged Bush to fire Gonzales.

Source: Yahoo!




_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:05:28 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

1. John McKay - Seattle -

There were allegations of voter fraud in the Governor's election, where the Democratic governor won by less than 200 votes.  These were confirmed incidents of voter fraud. No grand jury was enpaneled to look into them.

Wonder why?  He says that there wasn't enough evidence that there was voter fraud, despite evidence of dead voters, voters registered to storage units and the like.  A grand jury doesn't convict people.  It is another investigation tool, giving an Attorney more power to determine the truth.

"Your side" make a big deal about voter fraud.  Crap is still going on about the 2000 Presidential election, and the Pennsyvania elections from the last election. But you'll defend this Attorney, because he refused to look deeper?

Inconsistent position, based on partisan outlooks, seems to me.  Perfectly legitmate reason to fire him.


FWIW, McKay worked for a Republican Congressman and was appointed a U.S. attorney by George W. Bush. That doesn't mean his decision about the voter fraud allegations was necessarily right, but it does seem to lessen the likelihood that he made it for partisan reasons.

Source: McKay Bio, DOJ

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:12:20 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003615329_mckay13m.html
quote:


McKay insists that top prosecutors in his office and agents from the FBI conducted a "very active" review of allegations of fraud during the election but filed no charges and did not convene a federal grand jury because "we never found any evidence of criminal conduct."

McKay detailed the work of his office in a recent interview. He spoke out because he believed Republican supporters of Dino Rossi, still bitter over his narrow loss to Democrat Christine Gregoire, continue to falsely portray him and his office as indifferent to allegations of electoral fraud.

McKay also wanted to make it clear that he pressed ahead with a preliminary investigation, despite the hesitation of Craig Donsanto, the longtime chief of the Election Crimes branch of the Department of Justice, who ultimately concurred with McKay that no federal crimes had been committed in the election.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/18/AR2007031801077.html
quote:



A spokesman for the department, Brian Roehrkasse, said that "as a matter of Justice Department policy, U.S. attorneys do consult with the public integrity section on election fraud matters,"

So the FBI, and his boss back in Washington at the Election Crimes branch of DOJ were in on it?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/22/2007 7:17:05 PM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:18:28 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

4. Kevin V. Ryan - San Francisco, .. "whose firing has generated few complaints because of widespread management and morale problems in his office."


Interestingly, though, the article you cite also mentions that Ryan received a "strong" evaluation, as did David Iglesias.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:20:11 PM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FWIW, McKay worked for a Republican Congressman and was appointed a U.S. attorney by George W. Bush. That doesn't mean his decision about the voter fraud allegations was necessarily right, but it does seem to lessen the likelihood that he made it for partisan reasons.Source: McKay Bio, DOJ


I wasn't necessarily saying that McKay was being partisan.  But, he could've at least convened a grand jury, and looked at the accusations seriously.

His failure to do so was apparently one of the things that got him in trouble.

Can't say I blame Bush for this one.  I was wondering when the investigation was going to be as well.  Did you follow the back and forth on who won that election?  And, near the end, all of a sudden they "found" 100 ballots.  The Dems won by about 130 votes.

Wouldn't have taken too many "dead voters" to turn that one around.  And, if there were indeed 130 "bad ballots", then indeed the governor should have been a Republican.

Letting a governorship go without doing due diligence ... I can see why the party might be a tad upset, can't you?

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:36:58 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		It does sound like he would have saved himself some heartache!

Not being a lawyer, I don't know what kind of evidence one has to have to convene (right word?) a grand jury.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:38:06 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I can see why the party might be a tad upset, can't you?


I can too, but then he doesn't work for the party.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:54:50 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

It does sound like he would have saved himself some heartache!

Not being a lawyer, I don't know what kind of evidence one has to have to convene (right word?) a grand jury.


His supervisors at DC's DOJ's Election Crimes unit didn't think there was enough for a Grand Jury, and neither did the FBI Agents working with him.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:57:08 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

The calls of Republicans (can you source them, please?) for the resignation of Gonzales


Senator John Sununu of New Hampshire called for U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to be fired,

...

 Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon on Thursday became just the second Republican in Congress to signal it was time to replace him.


Senator John Sununu of New Hampshire called for U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to be fired ...


2004 "Showdown State"  New Hampshire

2004 Election Results
Kerry    340,511     50%
Bush    331,237     49%

2000 Election Results
Bush (48%) defeated Gore (47%) by 7,211 votes.

Elected Officials:

GOVERNOR:
John Lynch (D)

U.S. SENATORS:

Judd Gregg (R)  - Next Election in 2010.

John E. Sununu (R)* - Next Election in 2008.

Candidates for his seat:

Jay Buckey (D) - Medical School Professor, Physician & Ex-Astronaut
Steve Marchand (D) - Portsmouth Mayor & Public Affairs Consultant
Jeanne Shaheen (D) - Ex-Governor, Ex-State Sen., Ex-Teacher & '02 Nominee
Katrina Swett (D) - Democratic Activist & '02 Congressional Nominee

U.S. CONGRESS:
District 1:
Carol Shea-Porter (D)
District 2:
Paul Hodes (D)


 Sen. Gordon Smith of Oregon on Thursday became just the second Republican in Congress to signal it was time to replace him ...



2004 "Showdown State" Oregon

2004 Election Results
Kerry    943,163     52%
Bush     866,831     48%

2000 Election Results
Gore (47%) defeated Bush (47%) by 6,765 votes.

Elected Officials:

GOVERNOR:
Ted Kulongoski (D)

SECRETARY OF STATE:
Bill Bradbury (D)

STATE TREASURER:
Randall Edwards (D)

ATTORNEY GENERAL:
Hardy Myers (D)

U.S. SENATORS:

Ron Wyden (D) - Next Election in 2010.

Gordon Smith (R)* - Next Election in 2008

Candidates for his seat:

Kate Brown (D) - State Senator Majority Leader
Pavel Goberman (D) - Fitness Instructor, Machinist & Frequent Candidate
Jeff Merkley (D) - State House Speaker
Steve Novick (D) - Attorney & Democratic Activist
Vicki Walker (D) - State Sen., Ex-State Rep. & Court Reporter
Ben Westlund (D) - State Sen., Agribusinessman, Ex-Republican & '06 Governor Candidate
John Frohnmayer (Independent) - Ex-National Endowment for the Arts Chair & Attorney

U.S. CONGRESS:

District 1:
David Wu (D)

District 2:
Greg Walden (R)

District 3:
Earl Blumenauer (D)

District 4:
Peter DeFazio (D)

District 5:
Darlene Hooley (D)



Okey dokey, DC.  You're a political savvy guy .... after reading the material I've provided above ... why do you think that Sununu and Smith are asking Gonzales to step down or be fired?

Politics.  Politics.  Politics.

FirmKY

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 7:58:10 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The Ex-Astronaut doesn't have a fucking chance.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:03:41 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I can see why the party might be a tad upset, can't you?


I can too, but then he doesn't work for the party.


1.  He got his job - as a political appointee - because he was a Republican.

2.  Regardless of which party he was a member of - don't you think a race that close, with questions as serious as some that were brought out - that the people deserved to have the govenor that won it by the legal votes?  Be it Dem or Repub ... don't the people deserve that all doubt be laid to rest, and if there were illegal votes, they should be thrown out?

FirmKY

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 3/22/2007 8:04:39 PM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:04:45 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

why do you think that Sununu and Smith are asking Gonzales to step down or be fired?


Well, since they're Republicans, I was assuming that they're acting on principle, of course.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:06:28 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The Ex-Astronaut doesn't have a fucking chance.


Agreed.  But he doing everything he can to try to stay in power.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:08:16 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

why do you think that Sununu and Smith are asking Gonzales to step down or be fired?


Well, since they're Republicans, I was assuming that they're acting on principle, of course.


Of course!



The principle of "I wanna get re-elected!"

FirmKY


< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 3/22/2007 8:09:11 PM >

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:09:57 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


2. Regardless of which party he was a member of - don't you think a race that close, with questions as serious as some that were brought out - that the people deserved to have the govenor that won it by the legal votes? Be it Dem or Repub ... don't the people deserve that all doubt be laid to rest, and if there were illegal votes, they should be thrown out?


Why isn't the oversight of the DC DOJ Election Crimes HQ, and the FBI sufficient to support that the decision not to convene a grand jury was properly made?

It's not like he did his job in a vacuum.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:10:33 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

The Ex-Astronaut doesn't have a fucking chance.


Agreed.  But he doing everything he can to try to stay in power.

FirmKY



Who's the ex-astronaut?

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:12:20 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Gordon Smith, I think.

I was thinking he was, but didn't check it, but since FB says he is, I'll go with him as a source. 



_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: David Iglesias: Why I Was Fired - 3/22/2007 8:16:20 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

1.  He got his job - as a political appointee - because he was a Republican.


True, but the long (and, I think, wise) tradition seems to be that, once in the job, a USA is meant to do it in as nonpartisan a fashion as possible.


quote:

2.  Regardless of which party he was a member of - don't you think a race that close, with questions as serious as some that were brought out - that the people deserved to have the govenor that won it by the legal votes?  Be it Dem or Repub ... don't the people deserve that all doubt be laid to rest, and if there were illegal votes, they should be thrown out?


I agree with the general principal that one should do one's damnedest to find the real election results. But I don't know the specifics of the Washington case or of McKay's decision. I can't seem him having any professional or partisan motivation for giving the Dems a pass, which makes me wonder if maybe he honestly thought he didn't have the evidence to proceed further.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 60
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