RE: why isnt it the law here, too?

RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (Full Version)

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mixielicous -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 5:05:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 Mixie: From your post.. you have registered as a Democrat but consider yourself a lIbertarian. I am guessing that you do this to make your vote more relavent. The libertarians in fact have a party in MA and you can find them here.. http://www.lpmass.org/ Its funny that you express a belief in one thing and support another, and then cry about only 2 party's. You yourself have chosen to align with one of the 2, but not to worry I'm sure its just situational ethics as i clearly implied before, if the primaries were open to more than 2 parties [so that the libertarians would have a chance in hell of making it that far] i would obviously register as a libertarian [and WAS for the '04 election, and to my the voting lament unfolds]. but seeing as how this is pretty much impossible in today bi-party focus, i register democrat to exercise my right to vote during the primaries - which i would not be able to do as a libertarian. i do not understand how you use the term situational ethics.

popeye1250 -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 7:43:18 PM)
I think all Partys should be on the ballot.

Termyn8or -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 8:14:05 PM)
Sorry to jump through, but it is y'all's fault. Yes there are two apostrophes there. I have voted by not voting for a long time. If I had I would've voted against Bush if I could stomach the opponent. I couldn't, and voting for these waifs in the night does nothing. There is only one reason a country would mandate voting. Now let's go through this logically folks. Why on Earth would a country mandate voting ? The incumbent party's election fraud could be alot less severe, and less likely to be noticed, but wait, the international community is whatching and they know it too. When the voter turnout is less than about 50% the international community generally considers it to be invalid, even if the results are followed. It is known. In such countries, if people are not given the choice "none of the above", then such a law is plain wrong on it's face, and I say that it should be that if "none of the above" wins, then they election is void. That really doesn't solve much, they can try and try again until they can find someone good enough at lying to get a real majority. Not voting, to me is like a vote of "no confidence" by a parliment or something. It tells the government's enemies are not my enemy, it tells the world that I do not support this government. Now what do you think world opinion will be if US citizens gladly pay the fine rather than vote ? We are already dogshit to 70% of the world, how much lower can we go ? So who happens to know what the voter turnout in the US Presidential election was in 2004 ? I'll pay the fine until Ron Paul runs. T

Sternhand4 -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 8:27:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 Mixie: From your post.. you have registered as a Democrat but consider yourself a lIbertarian. I am guessing that you do this to make your vote more relavent. The libertarians in fact have a party in MA and you can find them here.. http://www.lpmass.org/ Its funny that you express a belief in one thing and support another, and then cry about only 2 party's. You yourself have chosen to align with one of the 2, but not to worry I'm sure its just situational ethics as i clearly implied before, if the primaries were open to more than 2 parties [so that the libertarians would have a chance in hell of making it that far] i would obviously register as a libertarian [and WAS for the '04 election, and to my the voting lament unfolds]. but seeing as how this is pretty much impossible in today bi-party focus, i register democrat to exercise my right to vote during the primaries - which i would not be able to do as a libertarian. i do not understand how you use the term situational ethics. I think your mistaking what a primary is for and what the general election is for. The primary is for a party to choose a candidate to represent them in the general election and to choose party officials. Which in turn allow the party to set its platform. in 2004 the Libs had these candidates.. http://www.dehnbase.org/lpus/library/pres-cand-2004.html Now if your saying that they didnt have a chance in the general election. I'd agree. But its because they have positions that do not fall into the mainstream of american voters. Also they Libs dont raise enough money to make themselves relavent. As for situational ethics, I was refering to your lament as to the lack of a credible 3'rd party when you enrolled as one of the big 2. If you believe in the third party position, then work for it. But dont cry about it when you desert them for a potential of being on the winning side.

michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 8:30:49 PM)
i think we should just do a random pick using social security numbers, that way everyone has a fair shot.

slaveluci -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 9:02:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous if people are too lazy to vote Bush out, i hardly think a fine [which would be over much faster than a 4 year term] would motivate them enough to do it. Well, considering how Bush was never technically voted IN [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m19.gif[/image]....sorry, couldn't resist [;)] maybe i just have to much faith in fellow man. maybe mixie.....i have virtually NO faith in our political system. i used to be idealistic about it but there is so much corruption and elitism, i took off my rose-colored glasses long ago and faced the fact that what i (as a mere "peasant") want, is probably not going to happen. i have been a registered voter for the last 16 years and have very rarely ever failed to vote. After years of seeing it do virtually no good, it's hard not to be jaded and cynical. Forcing people to vote, IMHO, would just be one more empty gesture that would really result in nothing productive........slave luci

slaveluci -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 9:05:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous oh .......... you mean people still care about their rights????? OH MY GOD, i had no idea, i mean, with the pat act, and real ID and everything going on ......... i was unaware that this nation still believed in rights! :p The "nation" as a whole does, i believe. It's our leaders who don't....slave luci

AquaticSub -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 9:24:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Ugh... I'm so sick people sprouting this. Personally, I think if people hate this country and how it's run so much, they can move. When election time came around I passed out "How to Change Nationality" info to all the bellyachers who were talking about moving to Canada. i am sure you are aware of how moving out of the country is unrealistic for most lamenters. in a nation where they pay you just enough to survive, but not enough to live, its no wonder these bellyachers are still around. Actually all the bellyachers I know are well off college kids who, like me, are getting a good ride from Mom and Dad and scholarships. As far as I'm concerned, if you hate the country and how it's so run so much that you can't even respect the fact that the man holds the office and you are too lazy to get out there, volunteer and change things... Either start saving up to move... or shut up. There is always a way if you want to badly enough. Look at the Mexicans and Cubans who come to America against the law with nothing. It's not perfect. Hell it's probably not all that nice. But to hear some people talk, it's better then staying here. I'll even help them pack.

Sinergy -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 10:48:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous on another site, on a topic i wont mention b/c it will completely derail this thread, it was mentioned that in australia it is the law to vote. Now i am asking, why isnt it the law here[USA]? IMO, it would be a great revinue for the govt [she said if you dont vote = fine] and it would finally motivate people to get out to the polls.. most of these people who ARE registered and SHOULD be voting. now i can see where some people might be scared of what would happen were every US citizen forced to vote, but if we all have the right to vote, we should not be scared of what might happen when it is finally exercised across the board. Well, I am dubious about attempts to legislate morality. In a similar sense, I am fairly dubious that attempts to legislate civic responsibility will work either. Just me, etc. Sinergy

FelinePersuasion -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/22/2007 11:25:07 PM)
I don't want to vote, and making it a law wouldn't make me any more inclined to. And I don't have money to spare on fines for laws like vote or be fined. I am barely making it through with any money to spare as it is with out stupid fines. quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous Now i am asking, why isnt it the law here[USA]? IMO, it would be a great revinue for the govt [she said if you dont vote = fine] and it would finally motivate people to get out to the polls.. most of these people who ARE registered and SHOULD be voting.

slaveluci -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 7:14:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub As far as I'm concerned, if you hate the country and how it's so run so much that you can't even respect the fact that the man holds the office and you are too lazy to get out there, volunteer and change things... Either start saving up to move... or shut up. There is always a way if you want to badly enough. Look at the Mexicans and Cubans who come to America against the law with nothing. It's not perfect. Hell it's probably not all that nice. But to hear some people talk, it's better then staying here. I'll even help them pack. Hating the "country" and hating "how it's so run" are two very, very different things. i love this country and the freedoms that living here allows me. As i mentioned in a previous post, i am a registered voter who does exercise that right. i do my best to stay informed on politics and current events affecting the country and i do get involved locally in grassroots efforts to improve things. i don't just sit around and bitch - i try to make a positive impact. That being said - with all those efforts - the status quo and the "big picture" just never seems to change enough to suit me. i can respect the office without respecting the particular man who happens to fill it at this time. My respect has to be earned - i don't just blindly give it because he's the "president." i live around and work with people who believe with everything in them that it is WRONG to question the president and his policies. This mentality scares me to death. i am so sick of the word "patriot" and the symbol of our flag being co-opted by those who think that if you don't support this president, this war, etc., you aren't a patriot and are a traitor, in a sense, to the country. i beg their pardon - i was born here, i love this country, i participate in the political process as is my right, i work to make my little sphere of influence a better place, and i'll be damned if i'm going to accept that i'm not as much of a "patriot" as someone who has been brainwashed into blind obedience. The whole "love it or leave it" mentality gives me a chuckle. In my personal experience, the folks always eager and willing to tell someone else to pack and get out if they don't like it are usually people who do the LEAST to participate or improve matters. Frankly, i SHOW my love for MY country by dissenting. i show it by CARING enough to want to stop some of the things i see happening. Packing up and shutting up shouldn't be what i have to do just because i disagree with what i see being done to this nation and want to see it stopped. When people can wise up enough to stop the petty bickering over "left and right," "democrat and republican," and "liberal and conservative" and actually work together for the good of this nation as a whole......that's when real, positive changes will happen.....(now how did these damn rose-colored glasses get back on????? [;)] ) ...... slave luci

mixielicous -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 8:59:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Ugh... I'm so sick people sprouting this. Personally, I think if people hate this country and how it's run so much, they can move. When election time came around I passed out "How to Change Nationality" info to all the bellyachers who were talking about moving to Canada. i am sure you are aware of how moving out of the country is unrealistic for most lamenters. in a nation where they pay you just enough to survive, but not enough to live, its no wonder these bellyachers are still around. Actually all the bellyachers I know are well off college kids who, like me, are getting a good ride from Mom and Dad and scholarships. As far as I'm concerned, if you hate the country and how it's so run so much that you can't even respect the fact that the man holds the office and you are too lazy to get out there, volunteer and change things... Either start saving up to move... or shut up. There is always a way if you want to badly enough. Look at the Mexicans and Cubans who come to America against the law with nothing. It's not perfect. Hell it's probably not all that nice. But to hear some people talk, it's better then staying here. I'll even help them pack. well, lucky you, miss well to do. and guess what i HAVE been saving for a long time, its a slow process, and would take much longer than 8 years to save enough to actually get out of this country and have enough to make something of myself somewhere else i would appreciate if in the future you made no more assumptions about the amount of my political activism because you obviously do not know me and are at the point of putting words in my mouth. i have never used the word hate on collar me, ever. i do not use that word and i do not hate my country at all. i am saddened by the way its run and its apathetic nature. but hey, apparently i am just one of the sheep too [sm=banghead.gif]

slaveluci -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 9:44:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous i am saddened by the way its run and its apathetic nature. mixie, what a succinct way of stating what i tried to say above [:)] yes, "saddened" is a word i would use as well....slave luci

AquaticSub -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 11:15:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Actually all the bellyachers I know are well off college kids who, like me, are getting a good ride from Mom and Dad and scholarships. As far as I'm concerned, if you hate the country and how it's so run so much that you can't even respect the fact that the man holds the office and you are too lazy to get out there, volunteer and change things... Either start saving up to move... or shut up. There is always a way if you want to badly enough. Look at the Mexicans and Cubans who come to America against the law with nothing. It's not perfect. Hell it's probably not all that nice. But to hear some people talk, it's better then staying here. I'll even help them pack. well, lucky you, miss well to do. and guess what i HAVE been saving for a long time, its a slow process, and would take much longer than 8 years to save enough to actually get out of this country and have enough to make something of myself somewhere else i would appreciate if in the future you made no more assumptions about the amount of my political activism because you obviously do not know me and are at the point of putting words in my mouth. i have never used the word hate on collar me, ever. i do not use that word and i do not hate my country at all. i am saddened by the way its run and its apathetic nature. but hey, apparently i am just one of the sheep too [sm=banghead.gif] I'm sorry when did I say anything about you? I said I hate it when people spout off about how much they hate America because if they hate it so much then why don't they move. You are trying to move. I think that's fanastic because you shouldn't be in a place you hate. You said that most people who do so can't afford to move. I informed you that everyone I've heard spouting such hatred isn't scraping by but comes from families who have worked hard and have enough money to send their kids to college. I apologize profousely for the fact that my Dad worked his ass off and went from working in a packing house, put himself through medical school and now can afford to put his daughter through college without her having to enlist in the Army like he did. He made his dream come true. I'm so sorry that bothers you. I guess the whole "American Dream" is... do the best you can. Just don't do better then me.

mixielicous -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 11:57:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Actually all the bellyachers I know are well off college kids who, like me, are getting a good ride from Mom and Dad and scholarships. As far as I'm concerned, if you hate the country and how it's so run so much that you can't even respect the fact that the man holds the office and you are too lazy to get out there, volunteer and change things... Either start saving up to move... or shut up. There is always a way if you want to badly enough. Look at the Mexicans and Cubans who come to America against the law with nothing. It's not perfect. Hell it's probably not all that nice. But to hear some people talk, it's better then staying here. I'll even help them pack. well, lucky you, miss well to do. and guess what i HAVE been saving for a long time, its a slow process, and would take much longer than 8 years to save enough to actually get out of this country and have enough to make something of myself somewhere else i would appreciate if in the future you made no more assumptions about the amount of my political activism because you obviously do not know me and are at the point of putting words in my mouth. i have never used the word hate on collar me, ever. i do not use that word and i do not hate my country at all. i am saddened by the way its run and its apathetic nature. but hey, apparently i am just one of the sheep too [sm=banghead.gif] I'm sorry when did I say anything about you? I said I hate it when people spout off about how much they hate America because if they hate it so much then why don't they move. You are trying to move. I think that's fanastic because you shouldn't be in a place you hate. You said that most people who do so can't afford to move. I informed you that everyone I've heard spouting such hatred isn't scraping by but comes from families who have worked hard and have enough money to send their kids to college. I apologize profousely for the fact that my Dad worked his ass off and went from working in a packing house, put himself through medical school and now can afford to put his daughter through college without her having to enlist in the Army like he did. He made his dream come true. I'm so sorry that bothers you. I guess the whole "American Dream" is... do the best you can. Just don't do better then me. when you use the terminology, "good ride" you sound exactly like a little miss well to do, nothing to do with your fathers american dream and all to do with how you presented yourself. maybe the problem is is just our vocabulary. in your first remark you may have been speaking very third person, but as you can see if you re read, you get a little personal with no clarification [all i see are the words, you, you, you] again, still dont hate america. never did. dont know how this came up. maybe you were applying it to the bellyachers again though [hard to tell when you swich pronouns on me]

Seatonstomb -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 1:35:06 PM)
Fine make it required to vote but have "none of the above" or "Reopen Nomination" on the balot paper. Many people don't vote because too many polititians are corupt to a greater or lesser extent.

AquaticSub -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/23/2007 2:53:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous when you use the terminology, "good ride" you sound exactly like a little miss well to do, nothing to do with your fathers american dream and all to do with how you presented yourself. maybe the problem is is just our vocabulary. I am getting a good ride. I'm fucking lucky and I realize it. My Dad worked his ass off. I didn't earn it, I just happened to be born into it. However, I am reaping the reward and he is fulfilling the dream of his child being able to do what I'm doing. Which is work my ass off in college and not in a job trying pay for college. If I'm lucky, I'll be able to work my ass off and provide the same to mine. I just hope they won't take as much shit for it as I have. quote: in your first remark you may have been speaking very third person, but as you can see if you re read, you get a little personal with no clarification [all i see are the words, you, you, you] again, still dont hate america. never did. dont know how this came up. maybe you were applying it to the bellyachers again though [hard to tell when you swich pronouns on me] If I recall correctly, the post that brought this up was a very typical "America is terrible" speech, which irks the hell out of me. Because, like I said, all the people I hear it from are people like me and who aren't making an effort to move. I added the "like me" response in the commentary about them so that I wouldn't come across as someone who is bitching about people getting rides their parents.

Real0ne -> RE: why isnt it the law here, too? (3/24/2007 1:26:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sternhand4 quote: ORIGINAL: mixielicous quote: ORIGINAL: FLFunTop Just to keep the record straight, we have a constitutional republic with a multi party system including unenrolled(independant), yes there is an independant party. yes i consider myself a libertarian, but guess what i register democrat. there is no multi party system here, i believe that to be a farce. if there were, i would not be forced to register democrat so i can participate in the primaries. Why should a person, who is not a member of a party be allowed to choose that party's candidate? or its party structure. Thats why outsiders ( non members of a party ) are not allowed to vote in party primarys. yes see what ya get you for letting government rule your life instead of the other way around. If you were sovereign you have the right and obligation and expectation to elect regardless of party affilliation. Constitutionally we are born into this country as a sovereign state citizen as an elector and then magically become a "us federal citizen" and a voter. Now you are stuck with 2 parties as a traditionand those 2 parties writing rules to stack the deck in their favor. but then priveledges are always better than inalienable rights Federal election laws and national ID: http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20030505.htm

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