D/s and dependence and personal identity (Full Version)

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Vendaval -> D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 11:06:06 AM)

Greetings A/all,
 
From a thread in the sub/slave forum another question emerged.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_903137/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
 
So the question is -
Do you think that there is a difference in the level of dependency
and personal identity on the part of the sub/slave in some D/s relationships
and non - D/s relationships?



thetammyjo -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 11:11:57 AM)

No, I don't think there is a difference.

Allowing yourself to become dependent on someone is part of being in a relationship. The degree to which you allow yourself to become dependent varies by person and relationship but I don't see that as being a factor of Ds or vanilla.

I personally think that anyone can be unhealthily dependent on another. I think it usually happens before you are fully aware of it and thus it can be very difficult to undo that dependency.

The only possible difference might be if the Ds people communicate and purposely work on creating a level of dependency or non-dependency. We need to be realistic though. Just because Ds should involve a high level of communciation does not mean that it does nor does it mean that vanilla or mundane relationships do not have high levels of communication.

The idea that we are better of communicating is an interesting ideal in the BDSM community.



spanklette -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 11:15:16 AM)

IMO, this truly depends on the couple in question.
 
Co-dependency seems like it would lend itself to D/s, but in reality, it lends itself to fear and lonliness. Those two things can happen to anyone D/s or not.



toservez -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 11:37:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

No, I don't think there is a difference.

Allowing yourself to become dependent on someone is part of being in a relationship. The degree to which you allow yourself to become dependent varies by person and relationship but I don't see that as being a factor of Ds or vanilla.



I agree with this 100%. There is a very big difference in becoming dependent in a relationship by choice which occurs in all healthy relationships on some level and being dependent on someone out of necessity. One is healthy and one is not.

This life is no different then a regular life. I choose to be a slave and depend on the control my Master exerts as it makes me happier and more fulfilled then living any other way. I will not be in an M/s relationship because it is the only way I can function and be happy. Same thing with people in a regular relationship, most choose who they become dependent on and the few unhealthy people will be with anyone so because they need dependency. The more severe of this you are getting into a personality disorder.

It is like most things, are you the boss of it or is it the boss of you.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 11:39:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval
Do you think that there is a difference in the level of dependency

Im more dependent on my current partner than I have in any other relationship- including when I was owned property.
quote:


and personal identity on the part of the sub/slave in some D/s relationships
and non - D/s relationships?

No, we're all doing what we want to do and being who we want to be.

As I said in the other thread, there's a large difference between:
This relationship is different/more/deeper than any other relationship I've had.

and

All relationships of X type are different/more/depper than any other relationship people could have in Y type.



SimplyMichael -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 11:54:51 AM)

What  a great thread, an interesting question is asked and a number of posters nailed it!  What a wonderful place!



MasterFireMaam -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 12:10:00 PM)

There's a difference between dependence and co-dependency. Being able to depend on someone and being dependable yourself isn't a bad thing. CD is about allowing your sense of self-worth to come from an external force and relying on outward approval to tell you your ok. While doing things for a person because you are dependable and doing thing in order to get them to love you might LOOK the same from the outside, it's not. And, it has no bearing on if the relationship is Ds or not.

Master Fire



lateralist1 -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 12:10:12 PM)

I think we can only ever speak about ourselves and what we want or already have.
I want a strong, independent sub/slave. Who enjoys my dominant nature. Who knows that I revel in his submissiveness. Who wants to be with me and allows me to do what I enjoy doing to him because it makes me happy. And he's happy when I'm happy. But I also want him to be the happiest man alive because he's mine. Not just because he's found a Mistress. A lot of so called slaves just want a woman to do the kinky things to them that they want done to them. They don't really care a damn whether it makes their Mistress happy. Because in their heads a Mistress should want to do those things because that's what Mistresses do. I've never heard such a load of rubbish in my life.  So yes in a way we are going to be dependent on one another because we make one another happy. But no I don't want him dependent on me because he's a lazy sod who wants an easy ride.



slaveish -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 12:13:06 PM)

I think there is a grand opportunity for increased dependence on one's Dom / Master because of the outward appearance of the dynamic, i.e. "I depend on him because I am submissive to him and therefore weaker." There is a lot of codependency in the lifestyle - many Doms / Masters don't see it as a bad thing. ~shrug~ I guess it's all about perspective.



heartfeltsub -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 12:15:16 PM)

Extremely well said MFM.

heartfelt



jauntyone -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 12:18:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Greetings A/all,
 
From a thread in the sub/slave forum another question emerged.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_903137/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
 
So the question is -
Do you think that there is a difference in the level of dependency
and personal identity on the part of the sub/slave in some D/s relationships
and non - D/s relationships?

Greetings Vendaval
 
For myself, personally, I have to say no. Perhaps it is because I just have yet to see many relationships, D/s, M/s, vanilla or otherwise in which this kind of dependency is apparant. My own relationship with Master, I am very dependent on him, but not to the point that I would ever forget my own identity. Nor would Master wish that of me.
 
I wish you well
 
melissa



ownedgirlie -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 2:01:07 PM)

For me, yes.  I have a healthy dependence on my Master that I have not experienced in any non D/s relationship. I am completely dependent on him, which allows me to learn and draw from his knowledge and conduct myself as he wants in his absense.  And as he wants is as a healthy, strong, confident individual. 

I can do that while I am dependent on him.  I need him, and he has no need for a slave that has no need for him, so it works for us.



szobras -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 2:40:46 PM)

Do you think that there is a difference in the level of dependency
and personal identity on the part of the sub/slave in some D/s relationships
and non - D/s relationships?

Nope.
I believe the healthy part of a balanced diet in both relationship types, is in each having thier own individuality supported while being able to be dependent opon one another in the relationship.
Co-dependence holds no prejudice towards relationship types.



Wildfleurs -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 3:04:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Greetings A/all,
 
From a thread in the sub/slave forum another question emerged.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_903137/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
 
So the question is -
Do you think that there is a difference in the level of dependency
and personal identity on the part of the sub/slave in some D/s relationships
and non - D/s relationships?


I think that the type of dependence is very different in a D/s relationship, but I'm on the fence about the level of dependence.  I think there's a different type of dependence on a person when you are relying on them to make decisions and assert control over your life (in whatever form that takes).  I think that different type of dependence certainly makes things more complex than the type of dependence in a control/authority/power equal relationship (i.e. non-D/s relationship).

Additionally, I definitely think that the personal identity is different in a D/s relationship.

C~



gypsygrl -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 3:40:19 PM)

I have real issues surrounding 'dependency' and would think of it as an achievement if I could get to a place where I could allow myself to feel dependant without doing mental/emotional somersaults in an attempt to justify/rationalize/deny it and put my partner through hell in the process.  I don't think I could/would take this risk in a vanilla relationship because, to me, its a central part of submission.  I'm not saying D/s (with a heavy kink emphasis) has to be different from a vanilla relationship, but I think of them as different mostly because a lot of my kinks are wrapped around feelings of insecurity and dependency.  So, its hard to imagine a non-kinky parnter being compatible.



xolarkinxo -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 3:45:01 PM)

I am dependent on Tacs because I choose to be.  I am more dependent on him than in vanilla relationships I have had.  He has more experience in D/s relationships than I do so I depend on him to guide me in my discovery of my submissive identity.



Celeste43 -> RE: D/s and dependence and personal identity (3/22/2007 7:09:57 PM)

I'm much more dependent on him than I ever have been before. We also share a much greater depth of intimacy than in any relationship we've been in before. And I believe the second is the reason for the first.



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