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Vendaval -> "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:11:05 PM)

"Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors"
 
POSTED: 9:25 a.m. EDT, March 22, 2007

" Foreclosures were formerly rare, caused mostly by the loss of job, divorce or medical bills.

But when rising interest rates began driving up mortgage payments last year, homeowners started to feel the pain. Phones at credit counselors across the country are now ringing off the hook.

The industrial heartland has been particularly hard-hit. Ohio had the highest number of home foreclosures in 2006, while neighboring Michigan and Indiana -- all sideswiped by the faltering U.S. auto industry -- were close behind.

Housing analysts predict between 1 million and 3 million U.S. homes will be foreclosed upon in 2007. Already a wave of defaults on subprime mortgages held by those with poor credit have caused a crisis in parts of the industry, and some economists believe a recession could result. "

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/22/subprime.counselors.reut/index.html




azzmaster -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:24:53 PM)

i think this is going to be a really major crisis... lots of repercussions... serious effects on out economy... REALLY serious




KatyLied -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:25:48 PM)

I should read before I ask, but is this mainly from adjustable rate mortgages?  I know people who have had significant (hundreds of dollars) increases in their adjustable rate mortgages.




KatyLied -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:27:44 PM)

from the article
quote:

many borrowers who simply didn't understand their interest rate was only fixed for two or three years, then could rise along with market rates."That's all they hear -- that it's fixed, not that it's only fixed for the first two years," Britton said. "They don't know their payment's gone up until they get the notice in the mail. And then they don't have the money."




pahunkboy -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:33:02 PM)

hmm- well u should see some of these so called properties. disrepair- and in war zones. one would be nutz to buy some of the crap




Real0ne -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:39:07 PM)

it was a double wamy, not only rising interest, but the dollar lost like 30% of its value over the last 3 years.  any wonder they are going bust...

thank you federal reserve and gw!






PlayfulOne -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:41:25 PM)

what the fff are you talking about PA ??

The big problem here is that many of those "adjustable" mortgages were used to get people into houses they couldn't afford without the fanagling.  Once the rates go up and the funky clauses kick in, bye bye goes the house.

The real problem housing prices.  It was noted around here last year that something like 70% of the home owners that bought their house 5 years ago could not afford to buy it today.  Hence a lot of those financing angles were needed to keep the housing market going.  Now its all coming tumbling down. 

K




ferryman777 -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:44:24 PM)

WOW !!! This sounds serious, everyone is at near panic, the lenders are in panic. I really do not understand why. WE HAVE A WAR TO WIN !!!!!! That should be on everyone's mind now, not the homeland, so-called, economy. So what Michigan....the Chinese are building the cars now, they even are introducing their very own car...The GEE.

For Christ's sake....THE WAR, THE WAR !!!! that is all that matters, nothing else should concern us. The president, God Bless him, is working to win this war, and if Iran butts in, or Korea, well, too bad for them.




TNstepsout -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:50:33 PM)

I work in a business that involves housing and I've seen this happen, and deal with the repurcussions on a daily basis. The problem ocurred for several reasons.

Mortgage companies are lending money to anyone with a pulse (and that is negotiable) Basically the worse your credit is the more expensive your mortgage, but you CAN get into the home of your dreams. With creative lending people can get into a home for less per month than they would have paid in rent. The catch is that's usually only for the first year. I have spoken to people whose mortgages rose as much a thousand dollars per month after the first year. Home buyers were getting in so cheap, often with nothing more than some closing fees, that it was easier to walk away from the mortgage than to try to hang on to the home.

This all worked for a few years because housing prices just kept going up and up and up. For a while a buyer who got into trouble could sell the house for what they paid for it, pay of the mortgage and get out without too much trouble. Mortgage companies that did foreclose could turn around a resell the house for the same or maybe even more than before. No one lost out.

Until the market over built and housing prices began to stagnate. Buyers in trouble could no longer unload a "used" house for the same price as a new one so they had no choice but foreclosure, and the rest is history (or will be in a few years).





Vendaval -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 6:57:57 PM)

Thank you for sharing the insider's perspective, TNstepsout.




Termyn8or -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 7:31:26 PM)

You ain't seen nuthin yet. Since 1991, if you got a house with a mortgage, the bank has had the right to foreclose almost at will. It is called "Option to accelerate at will". Our house note was written under 1989 rules. That is why we never refinanced. It's paid off now and it is going to stay that way.

They have many teaser rates like mentioned in another post. They even have interest only, where you only pay interest for up to 30 years, and still owe the same amount.

Years ago these would not be such a bad deal, people could build their credit, and in alot of cases be making more money in a few years, but this has changed. Now we have people 20 years into their note, the time when they really start to build equity on a normally amortized loan, and they lose their job.

Now they are hurting to sell it to save their credit for in case times get better. And this is the normal people with good credit.

I smell a rat. I see blocks and blocks of property winding up owned by the bank. Yes they paid out the money for the property and technically bought it, through having a lien on it.

But number one, they really don't lend more than the property is worth. If you get more it is either because you have good credit or they expecet the value to rise. Either way they win. If you pay it off they get several times their investment back. If you default they got the property for the original note, minus all the charges you paid up front and all the interest paid all of the years even if you do manage to hold on to it.

Predatory lenders are after one thing, money, and property is money. As long as the population continues to increase, property is better than gold. And they know it of course. They know money and currency. It is part of their job. The rest of it is maximizing profits, and getting title to properties is a profit.

T




popeye1250 -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 7:32:08 PM)

Funny, I was looking at house/condo prices in New England on Realtor.com and this 3 br, 2 bath condo I'm in here in Myrtle Beach, S.C. that goes for $160k would go for $400k up North.
That tells me that our prices are way too low or that the prices up North are way too high.




Termyn8or -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/22/2007 7:56:02 PM)

Popeye;

There is a disparity in "values" because of the desirablility of a certain area over another. This is understood, but there is something else going on.

Take those same properties you mentioned years ago, you could probably get them for one tenth of the dollars. And let's just say for now that nothing else has changed much.

What has changed is the value of the money.

House prices would've never got there if people were not able to afford them, and now they afford them artificially.

This is because wages have not kept pace, and because people cannot do without.
so alot of people are in alot of debt, me included. The only diffedrence is that my debts are unsecured, that is on a signature. They can't touch either of the houses or any of the family cars or trucks. There is no note on any of them.

So if it gets bad we change the phone number and proceed with life.

Let's put it this way, if you have a job that is exportable, be very careful. Luckily my job is not exportable, but many are not so lucky. For them, even a normal fixed rate mortgage can be dangerous.

Then even their sweat equity could be lost to the bank, a bit more icing on the cake. They give mortgages to people on welfare and disability, they give 30 year notes to people in their 60s. You want a house you can get one, but can you keep it ?

If you can't you are nothing but a purchasing agent and a temporary renter as far as the bank is concerned.

Sweet deal huh ?

T




TNstepsout -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 5:37:52 AM)

Termyn you hit the nail on the head. When I started in this business a few years ago, one of my coworkers explained to me exactly what he thought was going to happen, and so far he's been right. The real problem in all of this is that right now our  national consumer debt outweighs the our earnings.  What this means is that lenders (of all types) are charging interest on money that doesn't exist and has no potential to exist for quite some time. Debt has become it's own currency.

As long as there was a bottom line product with a certain value, there was something tangible backing the debt. While house prices and wages were rising, lenders were cashing in and the bankroll was just getting bigger and bigger. The problem is there is simply no way for either to continue to increase at the same rate as the debt. I don't know exactly what the future holds, I just know it won't be pretty.




QuietlySeeking -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 6:11:26 AM)

I used to work in the banking industry.  We did sub-prime automobile loans and charge upwards of 18-20% on some loans. 

Think about that....a rapidly declining asset that will lose half of its value in the first four years....and a interest rate where the automobile owner will have paid almost the purchase price in interest.

I made SURE my mortgage was a 30yr fixed conventional with no accelerated features for the bank.




TahoeSadist -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 7:26:20 AM)

     I've been hearing and reading these news stories about this situation, and something that strikes me is that nowhere have I heard yet a story mentioning that the people who are taking out loans beyond their ability have a share in the responsibility. Maybe others have heard it mentioned, but I haven't yet that people making the decision to buy more house than they can afford are taking a huge gamble. Yes, maybe the house will appreciate such that you can re-fi before the adjustable kills you. However, if it doesn't then what will plan "B" be for us buying this home?

    I have been appalled over the last couple years listening to ads touting loans of up to 125% of the value of your home, interest-only mortgages, and the like. Partly because of the hucksters offering them, but mostly because I realize that if the demand wasn't there, the product wouldn't exist. If there is a demand, there WILL be a supply (ask your local cocaine addict) I know that saying people can get greedy, and let emotion overrule their judgement is an understatement, but it's what seems to be happening. Yes, lenders are something like casinos now: if you wish to take a gamble, in this case by stretching yourself thin, someone will make it possible. One can get into the ethics of lenders, saying they should be more open about total costs and what the loan can turn into, but still the borrower has to do some work on his own to figure what it will cost before signing. For instance I know what I can "qualify" for in a mortgage, and it's a helluva lot more than I'd ever buy because looking at the numbers I can see that the payback is far too high.


Eric




sub4hire -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 8:21:57 AM)

I was under the impression it was caused by the creative financing of 5 years ago.  The interest only loans that now a real loan payment is due on.

I know we just diverted a crisis with the guy buying our house they just upped the limit to 700 and he only had 673 on his credit score.  Luckily he got his loan approved 2 days before the deadline.




KatyLied -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 8:30:02 AM)

quote:

nowhere have I heard yet a story mentioning that the people who are taking out loans beyond their ability have a share in the responsibility.


They definitely bear the responsibility.  In many cases, the fixed mortgage rates made it possible for people to be in homes that otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford.  And now suddenly they can't afford them.  Did they fail to ask the right questions?  Did they fail to compare various mortgage options?  These people assume they are building equity only to find out that in reality they have nothing and have to refi or sell quickly.




LadyEllen -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 9:09:50 AM)

Of course the people taking out crazy mortgage borrowing are responsible - and also liable. But is there not also an onus on the banks etc to lend responsibly?

Not sure about the causes of the US situation, but we have the same situation in the UK where its causes stretch back to Mrs Thatcher, who sold off much of the social housing stock in the early 1980s, making the availability of affordable homes for the poorest much less than the demand. House prices soared, until one day a run on the pound in the international markets near bankrupted the exchequer and interest rates went through the roof. Cue thousands of repossessions, massive fall in prices (50%) and a fresh round of new buyers. That was in the days of responsible lending and the defaults were the result of governmental mismanagement.

But we moved then into the 90s with house prices rising more steadily. Demand was growing and still is, but there are very few new houses being built compared to the demand, which is accelerating the rises in prices. The lenders moved in this latest period into lending that can hardly be judged prudent - instead of 3x salary, one can now get mortgages for 6x salary, simply because without this added lending, no one could afford a house, and of course everyone needs somewhere to live, and with little social housing and a rental market that is overly proscriptive as to tenants and landlords who act in a less than honourable fashion, buying is the only real option. One could easily argue, that the way the lenders have acted has contributed in no small part, to the rise of house prices generally - sellers being aware that borrowers may borrow more, and valuations being put up to accomodate this added borrowing capacity.

We are told that the economy is buoyant in the UK. But, how much of this buoyancy is the result of credit lending one wonders? Almost all of it, is the answer; whether its mortgages, loans or credit cards, the economy is now reliant on lending and the meeting of payments by borrowers. Given this, the level of borrowing is now causing the Bank of England to raise interest rates, which had during the happy times of a few years back, dropped to a record low. As the rates rise, more and more people will find they are unable to meet their payments, their homes will be repossessed and house prices will fall through the floor - leaving ongoing mortgagees not only in negative equity with regard to their home but also more interestingly, with not enough assets to cover their other borrowing either.

And then we will have a situation too, where thousands are expelled from their homes and made homeless in a country where homelessness is already a major problem. There are certainly not enough houses or apartments, or even bed and breakfast accomodations for all the existing homeless, let alone the thousands of fresh homeless we will have, who having been blacklisted for credit will not be able to rent privately either.

In my view therefore, the forthcoming bursting of the bubble over here is down to irresponsible lenders and the actions and inactions of the governments over the last twenty five odd years in selling off affordable social housing and failing to build properly for the future. Those caught in the trap must bear some responsibility of course, but what else are they to do than to play the game according to the rules set at the time by government and the banks? Do we expect them to live on the streets until the market changes, or take a perhaps foolish mortgage in hindsight, to have somewhere to live?





popeye1250 -> RE: "Mortgage crisis overwhelming credit counselors" (3/23/2007 9:13:40 AM)

Well, I'm glad I'm not a Firefighter.
In the late 1980's early 1990's in New England the same thing happened and for about 2 or 3 years vacant houses were going up in flames at night.
The Fire Cheif of the resort town that I lived in said in the local newspaper; "I think we have a serial arsonist!"
LOLOL, no, we had a *bunch* of arsonists!
Simple, people couldn't sell them so they burned them and collected the insurance.
Some weeks there'd be three or four houses burned to the ground.
We called them "Yuppy Palaces." Overpriced houses and condos that they couldn't sell.
I think we can expect that to start happening again anytime now.




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