RE: BDSM as a Craft

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bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 11:36:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onestandingstill I see BDSM qualities as just plain old human qualities. There are as many vanilla people that have hig or low standards as there are kinky people. I think many a person we label or that label themselves vanilla practice more kinky things than they'd like to admit. I think in all relationships D/s or vanilla there's a certain way the energy in the relationship flows. I don't think people into BDSM have any more specific ways to live than the rest of the world does. suzanne Understood One but in any style of life i'm sure there must be reasons or qualities which lead them to exist in the manner of that structure? Does BDSM allow a person to live by the code of the D/s? i.e asking permission from ones Master/Mistress? where that person cannot do this in a vanilla society?

agirl -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 11:48:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn quote: I do always seek advice from M as he's been the best source for years, not because he's my Master; just because he's him. That was the case before he was my master and still is the case. My sister is a sub but we hardly ever discuss our respective D/s relationships or bdsm at all. It entirely depends on what kind of advice I was in need of, but in general, I wouldn't consider someone into bdsm, before other sources, no. agirl But first and foremost you seek his advice in the realms of BDSM as your Master? Could or would you seek advice from a person outside of the scope of BDSM? No, I would seek his advice in general, and about anything bdsm related. I don't seek his advice BECAUSE he's my master but because he's best placed to give it, tailor-made, for me. I would happily seek advice from anyone that I thought would GIVE me the best advice, whether they were into bdsm or not. agirl

darkinshadows -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 11:51:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross IMO bdsm is a definable sub-culture. However, many people in the scene would say there is no sub-culture at all. BDSM is definable as a subculture, but does that mean for individuals that it makes a difference in their everday life? I am sure there are people who stick within their 'structure' for advice - but for most individuals you go where you know you can get the best advice, not just a biased opinion?

mixielicous -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:09:08 PM)
i find it hard for me to connect with people in the bdsm arena: other than the fact that when we go out to fetish night we all wear the same color. try living as a double outsider, not feeling like you fit into either. generally my "problems" are dynamic related, so i am not going to ask advice from someone who cannot even fathom the concept. sure, there are aspects of my life that have changed [more spiritual, aware, conscience], so i could say its practices of respect and self awareness have rubbed off on me. but culturally, so far i have found nothing impacting me on a personal level.

bearincuffs -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn hey Bear, so for you 'Mentoring' is a definable quality for YOU? Yes it is just one of the defining qualities for me. Though the mentoring quality is found in aspects of everyday life, it is also found in the BDSM life also. Since I'm soon to be taking wiitwd into r/t, it seems natural and logical to incorperating "Mentoring" into the dynamics of this journey I'm on.

onestandingstill -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:16:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn quote: ORIGINAL: onestandingstill I see BDSM qualities as just plain old human qualities. There are as many vanilla people that have high or low standards as there are kinky people. I think many a person we label or that label themselves vanilla practice more kinky things than they'd like to admit. I think in all relationships D/s or vanilla there's a certain way the energy in the relationship flows. I don't think people into BDSM have any more specific ways to live than the rest of the world does. suzanne Understood One but in any style of life i'm sure there must be reasons or qualities which lead them to exist in the manner of that structure? Does BDSM allow a person to live by the code of the D/s? i.e asking permission from ones Master/Mistress? where that person cannot do this in a vanilla society? I agree for many they need to hide behind someon elses permission to be free enough to do the things they long to do, but in the end it's their choice to decide it's ok to do X if so & so thinks so. In the end they still choose to act. Someone else psycologically enabeling you to do things you desire is indeed common in BDSM, but again I think vanilla people use other people, liquor, and other circumstance as a cataylist lol or someting to blame for them acting out their dreams too. I just think anything that happens in BDSM dynamics as far as one controlling or enabeling another is also happening in the vanilla world suzanne

bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:34:57 PM)
You see i find that 'Permission' a defining quality next to Mentoring mentioned by bear, we know power has an element to play, we know that to some or most that Mentoring is a strong quality and to certain personalities they need their Master/Mistress to give them the 'go ahead' to do something they have doubt about. BDSM i feel differs from Vanilla lifestyle not because they have different dynamics as you say but because they live by a few definite codes only as opposed to anything goes.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:45:54 PM)
Blue which again isn't true at all, thinking that "anything goes" is part of bdsm- I can list off for you the taboos and rules we have. Swingers dislike bdsm a lot of the time because they find us too stifling and constrictive with all out rules! Yes, indeed many people in the scene need to be forced/allowed/controlled, but what does that mean? Are they really embracing "anything goes," or just creating a new system to work with that limitation? When you see a new person asking "Tell me what to do, tell me what the rules are" that's someone who WANTs more rules and structure. "We" WANT to have clear definitions, boundaries. Switches are told they are confused, scared, faking, pretending, or lazy. They don't like the direct "lack of clarity" such a dynamic brings. As well, plenty of vanillas enjoy anything goes- what about extreme sports? Regular sports? Sky diving? Deep sea diving? How many things do most humans do which kinky people would say "No way would I ever do THAT!" So look a little deeper.

bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:53:15 PM)
erm where did i say 'anything goes'? If i did i know i didnt intend it in the context you saw, i do look very deep as a matter of fact, i am trying to determine the defining qualities regarding BDSM, there simply must be and so far we have clarified several factors in the appeal of the subject. I know that 'anything goes' has no part least of all with BDSM, as a poster mentioned before, consent to them is a defining quality of which i would obviousely agree. We have Power, Consent, Mentoring and yes i will say these may not apply to all who participate but they are certainly quantative within the sub-culture. Personally i find all three qualities are relevant to me and i know many others so far that regard those as the cornerstones for their involvement within BDSM.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:55:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn erm where did i say 'anything goes'? If i did i know i didnt intend it in the context you saw, i do look very deep as a matter of fact, i am trying to determine the defining qualities regarding BDSM, there simply must be and so far we have clarified several factors in the appeal of the subject. Post #27 "BDSM i feel differs from Vanilla lifestyle not because they have different dynamics as you say but because they live by a few definite codes only as opposed to anything goes." Perhaps I am confusing your "they" pronoun? Are you instead suggesting that vanillas lead lives where "anything goes"? Because that's really just as false.

darkinshadows -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 12:58:21 PM)
quote: We have Power, Consent, Mentoring and yes i will say these may not apply to all who participate but they are certainly quantative within the sub-culture. But these aren't just BDSM related - they exist in many subcultures. The only definable qualities that are BDSM - at that is what you seem to be doing - wanting to define what BDSM is and how it effects 'life' is what itstands for. Its an acronym after all.

bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 1:01:03 PM)
Sorry that sounded abit wrong, what i meant was that i feel Vanilla society adheres to whatever suits them at the time i.e. 'anything goes' dynamics whereas like anyone who follows a path or lifetsyle they tend to live by a specific groups of dynamics, which is what i am trying to distinguish, sorry for the stupid confusion LA x [:)]

bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 1:22:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: We have Power, Consent, Mentoring and yes i will say these may not apply to all who participate but they are certainly quantative within the sub-culture. But these aren't just BDSM related - they exist in many subcultures. The only definable qualities that are BDSM - at that is what you seem to be doing - wanting to define what BDSM is and how it effects 'life' is what itstands for. Its an acronym after all. Your opinion ofcourse, if these arent BDSM related qualities then what are Darkin?

darkinshadows -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 1:31:49 PM)
Ask what defines Gay* - you get that its someone attracted to the same sex. That is the definable quantities.* BDSM is only an acronym for what is Bondage/Discipline/Sadism/Masc (Thrust Ds in there too if you wish). Thats the definable quantities there. Ask what defines Christian* - a follower of christ. That is the definition.* Other than that - it can be then discussed that the three subjects you mentioned - Power, Consent and Mentoring are all parts of Gay, BDSM and Christian 'Lifestyles' depending on the individuals within the subculture.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 1:45:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn Sorry that sounded abit wrong, what i meant was that i feel Vanilla society adheres to whatever suits them at the time i.e. 'anything goes' dynamics whereas like anyone who follows a path or lifetsyle they tend to live by a specific groups of dynamics, which is what i am trying to distinguish, sorry for the stupid confusion LA x [:)] I have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest that bdsmers do NOT do whatever suits them at the time to any lesser or greater degree that non-bdsmers do.

bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 2:08:23 PM)
I would say to you that personally i feel there are distinct qualities which attract people in the BDSM lifestyle, whether its the ethics, the limits or the power aspect, i have seen this to be the case in many people. I just wanted to know the broad view of people who are drawn to it and what qualities they are and whether there is a common element.

Padriag -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 2:27:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross As a CULTURE, in general forms, yes. Try and break it down to any particular individual and no. quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn So LA you are saying that BDSM as a way of life has no definable qualities? The first thought that came to my mind on seeing the above exchange is simply this. That while BDSM can be defined in general terms as a subculture... when you reduce it to the level of individuals few of those generalities remain universally true. We are a subculture of individualists who frequently choose our own paths... often divergent. And perhaps ironically, that same willful individuality leads some of us to eschew the "community" for those very same reasons, we find too little in common with it, or at least with its membership. To be perfectly honest, I can't think of anything at the moment which I would say was solely unique to the "BDSM sub-culture". We have mentoring (some of us anyway, others eschew that too), but you find this in business quite often (I've had several mentors in business for example). We have power exchange dynamics, but so do many "traditional" relationships. Some of us live by codes of ethics, though frequently individuals differ what those are or should be, and some seem not to give them any thought at all. But codes of ethics aren't unique to us either, I just finished reading The Code Of The Warrior by Shannon French, which discusses warrior codes that have been used by various militiaries in history. Interestingly enough, I've seen some in the lifestyle base their personal codes of ethics on some of those same warrior codes (Bushido and Chivalry being two popular choices). At best we might say that the way these things are combined in the BDSM sub-culture is a bit unique... I could perhaps go along with that, but not much farther. But to my mind what makes us most unique is our individuality... that we are very much a community of individuals, much more so than most others I can think of at the moment.

blmtrsne -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/23/2007 3:03:11 PM)
My slave/husband trusts my judgement completally. He also gave me all the rights, money, permissions he had/could. I'm the one who decides what we buy, where we go, that we move, get a pet,... It's just nattural.

Smileyking1 -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/26/2007 1:03:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: bludemonn I would just like to ask the entire forums view and OPINION on whether BDSM, its practices, its lifestyles, peer groups have an impact directly related to the running of their eveyday lives. For example do you seek out advice from your Mistress/Master or even Slaves in preference to life outside of the lifeystle? This may seem obvious but i would like to know if there are any properties that BDSM hold that are turned to in place of the properties that Society in general use. There can be specific issues when it comes to legalities, when it comes to custody issues, when it comes to sharing property/investments with a partner who is not legally married, but these issues are shared by homosexuals and non-married adults in relationships as well. We have a greater legal issue when it comes to exposure and freedom of our acts, but really those are the only things I can see as "unique bdsm related to everyday issues of life" and even then, swingers, polyamorists, and other "alt cultures" also deal with them. quote: Does BDSM have qualities unique to itself. Well in terms of its perspectives towards authority transfer dynamics in personal relationships, generally yes. Otherwise no. It actually seems to surprise people when I say I really don't have much in common with most kinky people- just being into a subculture doesn't mean you're going to ahve anything else in common with them. And for me, being a friend means sharing my life and doing a variety of things together, not one group of things. AHA you have saved me much time...instead of writing what you wrote in my own words I shall only have to write 'agree'...

bludemonn -> RE: BDSM as a Craft (3/28/2007 8:53:50 AM)
Whether anyone here feels they are unique they all share one thing in common most definately that is their interest in BDSM, i know BDSM encompasses a hell of a lot of interests but what the point of the question was, was does BDSM have definable qualities i.e. powerplay, consent, pleasure/pain and if so do these characteristics help people in the way they live their eveyday lives, can it be classed as a way of life in the respect of education and futherment. I have noticed the level of Psychology that goes into BDSM related relationships whether from Pro Domme to paying sub or D/s couples, perhaps life-coaching is an aspect of BDSM that draws us in.

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