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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 3:32:14 AM   
SusanofO


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Well I can agree with  much of what you say.  I think things like willingness to take a risk are somewhat the result of one's upbringing, which plays out as self-confidence, and also I think some people simply do have more luck (all talk about "making one's own luck" aside), I think my own life would be much harder, and I'd be willing to risk less, if I had a large family to support, and no free time whatsoever, for example. I think some people probably perceive participation in bdsm as a huge personal risk, for very valid reasons to themselves. I also think it's extremely likely some people simply haven't had much (or any) exposure to its existence as an option . Some probably would never be interested in it, regardless (and some would, perhaps), if they knew it existed as an option.

I also see open-mindedness as a product of the way in which someone was raised. If someone is rasied by closed-minded parents, who place a very high premium on social comformity, I see a child in such circumstances many times either veering far in the opposite direction (maybe forever) or else adhering closely to that and never questioning it for fear of reprisal of some kind (real or imagined). What actually tilts someone in one direction, as opposed to another is anyone's guess, individual and probably multi-facted, (although there must be studies on it, somewhere, I imagine). 

I also see a possibility some of it might even be innate. I mean, babies all have their own, individual personalities from the start, as well.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/26/2007 4:06:42 AM >


_____________________________

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And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:15:35 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I also see open-mindedness as a product of the way in which someone was raised. If someone is rasied by closed-minded parents, who place a very high premium on social comformity, I see a child in such circumstances many times either veering far in the opposite direction (maybe forever) or else adhering closely to that and never questioning it for fear of reprisal of some kind (real or imagined). What actually tilts someone in one direction, as opposed to another is anyone's guess, individual and probably multi-facted, (although there must be studies on it, somewhere, I imagine). 



This goes back to the age-old debate of nature vs nurture.  While many may agree that by nurturing a child a certain way will mold them into who they become, I tend to disagree (not entirely, but mostly).  I do believe that environmental aspects do affect how a child will behave in their adulthood, but I only believe it will impact them on a mild level.  Who they are will ultimately come into play.  For instance, there are many sociopaths who grew up in loving homes but they still behaved in a manner that was, well, sociopathic.  While other children grew up in homes of neglect and abuse only to become very strong-willed, successful individuals.  I'll go even further.  I had a child at a very young age, I allowed my aunt to adopt her so that she would have a stable environment to mature in.  I am not religious, my aunt, is very religious.  I like to think I am somewhat open-minded, my aunt, she is fairly set in her ways and isn't usually open to negotiations.  I am fairly technically competant, my aunt, sees no use in 'new gadgets'.  I am artistic (not very good mind you), my aunt, isn't.  I was concerned when allowing my aunt to raise my daughter because I thought my daughter might miss out on some of the things that I would be able to share with her, but I also realized I was too young to raise a child properly.  Now, here is where I base my opinions on nature being more impactful than nurture.  My daughter, is very technologically saavy, even moreso than I.  She is artistic, she believes in a god but isn't religious, she is very open-minded and willing to see others views and possibly change her own if she sees merit in another viewpoint.  She is capable of standing her ground if she feels it necessary, but she is flexible enough to realize that her way of doing things isn't necessarily the only "right" way of doing them.  This proves to me that she inherited many of my traits, but also allowed herself to be influenced somewhat by her surroundings.  So, I do not believe that the way a child is raised necessarily predetermines a specific path for them.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that children raised by open-minded parents will sometimes try to rebel and choose a narrow-minded style of thinking?

edited because my fingers are dyslexic.

< Message edited by Domin8tingUrDrmz -- 3/26/2007 4:24:17 AM >

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:22:54 AM   
SusanofO


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I do a lot of volunteer work with abused children. As a group, they probably aren't representative of peope involved in bdsm across the board, so basing my opinion of working wit them wouldn't be a valid comparison. My other experience is juist based on interacting with neighborhood kids and my nieces and nephews (not that enyonje ever bothers to qualify theri opnions around here, but snce I think it does impact the validity of making broad generalizations, I am qualifying mine). Having said all that, yes, I do think they can choose that. Although some don't.

I think a lot of things come into paly; some kids may be raised by 'strict" parents, but have what they consider more menaingful intereaction w/their friends, or teavhers, or even a neighbor, for example. And I also think some parts of kids' personalities may just be innate. I mean, your daughter may in fact be  alot like you, even if she wasn't raised by you, because she is genetically more like you than her aunt would be. I am not sure, but I do think it can be interesting to speculate.  

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:24:21 AM   
SusanofO


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Sorry about the typos. My PC isn't letting me edit, for some reason.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:28:10 AM   
SusanofO


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Dammit I wish I could edit my responses. I do think what you said is right on target. i am basing it on my own limited experience, but it makes innate sense to me on a gut level, too.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:29:12 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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I don't think any of us can be sure about such broad topics - since there isn't enough evidence to prove one theory over another.  I do appreciate your views, and while we may not entirely agree, I do agree it is indeed interesting to speculate.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:31:22 AM   
SusanofO


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Well I agree, I think it is. I enjoy discussions like this. I always keep in the back of my head all I have is my own life experiences, and whatever reading material I've run across to base my opinions on, bt that is what everyone else has, too. It is an interesting topic.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:36:14 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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Sorry to hijack the thread but...this post takes away that damn vanilla cone!  YAY!  Again, my apologies.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:36:20 AM   
LotusSong


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Dear Smiley,
 
I've pondered this myself in the past.  My observations are that the lifestyle seems  range from drawing those walking wounded who want definition in their relationships to those who confuse it with swinging.   Don't try to make sense of of it all.  "Sense" is not popular in the lifestyle. To question anything is usually seen as a "judgment". 
 
For myself, I just enjoy watching train wrecks. 
 
(No, really, it's the passion I enjoy :)

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:37:40 AM   
curiouslyseeking


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For such a complicated topic, considering we are all complex individuals......here is an answer I find very simple;
 
To, me it's all about "FEEL", mentally, emotionally and physically.
 
We are drawn to what is most pleasing and for me, it provides euphoria in all of these areas..
 
Living and learning,
curious

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:42:57 AM   
Dnomyar


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Hime did you say you like that the people in here are non judgemental. What rock are you hideing under. You need to start reading some of these post. This lifestyle is like a forbidden fruit. People want to taste it to see what it is like. The IQ theory has me wondering. Do people with the low IQ's lean towards submissiveness and the High IQ's toward dominance. I doubt that. I was in this long before my IQ had devloped. Do people precieve this as a livable fantasy life.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:47:21 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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I do not think low IQ's tend to lean toward submission and high IQs toward Dominance by any means.  Perhaps it does, for some, but I didn't view it that way at all.  My opinion is that those who have high IQ's tend to discover this lifestyle suits them better than those with lower IQs.  I've seen many people who appear very intelligent choose to be submissive.  I've also seen many people who appear to lack any sense at all claim to be Dominant.  I just think that those who have higher IQs are more driven within themselves to find whatever it takes to make them happy.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:51:50 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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It is an interesting thread, but as most threads go, the opinion seems to change as it moves along. The last posters represent taking a critical look at it all and I tend to agree with them. A deceiving point is that the IQ of posters is higher than the average population, but there are many Doms and subs who are in no way above average. You will just have to trust my personal observations on that one.

I’ll be blunt here and try to lay all the flowery D/s ideas, emotional make-up and IQ theories aside. I can give most any woman that I am having a relationship with an appreciation of BDSM, D/s, by starting with spanking, bondage and flogging. Once she starts to enjoy the sensation play and maybe spaces once or twice, she is going to want more. It is addicting.
Why do I like doing this? It is powerfully erotic to have control of her and being able to spank, whip and use her in any way I want. Simple.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 4:54:18 AM   
StellaByStarlite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiouslyseeking

For such a complicated topic, considering we are all complex individuals......here is an answer I find very simple;
 
To, me it's all about "FEEL", mentally, emotionally and physically.
 
We are drawn to what is most pleasing and for me, it provides euphoria in all of these areas..
 
Living and learning,
curious



Exactly.. you put it better then I could. At some point, for whatever reason, people are drawn towards bdsm because it gives us pleasure. Of course, there are some that seek it out for unhealthy reasons too, but they're not limited to bdsm... happens all the time in the vanilla world, as well

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 5:18:59 AM   
StellaByStarlite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

Susan,

I believe that open-mindedness is very strongly correlated to intelligence.  Those who are capable of seeing many different views on any subject are able to process all of the information and form their own decisions.  People who cannot see but one, or maybe two, sides of a subject do not have enough information to come to a decision on their own accord, instead, they follow the majorities decisions or the decisions of those closest to them.  I often see friends of mine who make their decisions on political topics based on the local news coverage - how sad is that?  I see people who make financial decisions based on what their parents did - even if their parents are struggling to make ends meet.   These people are often content with vanilla (not that there is anything wrong with vanilla -vanilla ice cream with blackberries is delicious ) and do not seek anything else.  They often settle for convenience, for a mediocre home, have a mediocre job, and wonder why they cannot achieve happiness.  Those with open minds often strive for greater things - not necessarily material things - but for deeper love, greater happiness, and rarely settle for anything less than they feel they can accomplish.



Hello =)

I'll have to respectfully disagree with you there. We'd have to fine-tune the concept of intelligence and what it is before we link it to openmindedness, imo. One can be exceedingly bright and still be unable, or unwilling, to process information enough to make informed decisions. The hallmark of open-mindedness is being flexible to change, to me. One can be intelligent and still be stubborn. ;)

I'd even go far as to say that there are bright people who are so damn good at finding reasons not to change that they remain stuck. =)

There's also a matter of different priorities. An intelligent couple might "settle" for a mediocre lifestyle for plain practical purposes. Maybe it would be too rough on the Ums to move. Or maybe they exchange better job opportunities in another area for being close to family.

There are people that are downright brilliant in one area but completely idiotic in another. ( I'll include myself here, lol)
Some of the most open-minded people I know are those who come across as mediocre in their ways.


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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 5:24:31 AM   
tempest1961


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What draws ME?


If my packmate, is bound to my bed,
she CANNOT leave,
If I get inside her head,
she CANNOT leave,
If she follows places, that she may dread,
she CANNOT leave.

And I, I will have said,
I CANNOT leave.

The pack aspect of it. I HATE being alone, fear it, dread it, abhor it. She does not want to be alone, nor do I. So it's a mutual thing, Packmates bound to each other, until death do us part.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 5:25:08 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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You certainly bring up valid points.  However, I have yet to see a dim person who was open-minded.  Only because they were not capable of knowing how to be so. ;-)

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 5:28:35 AM   
StellaByStarlite


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz



Just out of curiosity, do you think that children raised by open-minded parents will sometimes try to rebel and choose a narrow-minded style of thinking?

edited because my fingers are dyslexic.



I'd almost expect it.. since teens are just up to rebel against *anything* their parents do, at least for a while. Now, whether they actually stick their ideals as an adult is anybody's guess.

And "open-mindedness" is sticky, too. Do you mean tolerance and acceptance for other people's views, or the willingness to change your own?

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 5:34:36 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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I meant both tolerance and willingness to change one's mind.  As you said, open-mindedness is based on flexibility.  But, it is difficult to be flexible if you do not keep your muscles toned - the brain is just but another muscle.

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RE: What draws us? - 3/26/2007 5:41:41 AM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

You certainly bring up valid points.  However, I have yet to see a dim person who was open-minded.  Only because they were not capable of knowing how to be so. ;-)


Never confuse an open mind with a vacant one.

_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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