“Bridging respect” (Full Version)

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FukinTroll -> “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:30:08 PM)

Tal, greetings, hello, hola and all that other good stuff.

In case you have not noticed CM has added a few features, like now scrolling Gorean posts in the recent post window. For weeks I was befuddled at this. After all non-Goreans tend to enter the Gorean boards and stir up a mess because of the stark contrast of Gorean practice just as Goreans occasionally enter the non-Gorean side and stir up the same mess.
I could not for the life of me imagine why the fine people of CM would open this invitation for such a potential hostility and then I started thinking about Master IronBear. Some of you may remember him and Neets, and remember that he was a wealth of wisdom and sage advice in all aspects of BDSM M/s D/s. Often he suppressed fires and built bridges of understanding. I started reflecting on the present Goreans, as well as Hup the Fool (our own Dear Ron) and see that there are a few that give an effort to build the same bridges. Master Thadius of the Gorean side is often tolerant and patient with non-Goreans trying to find some understanding within the Gor forum. Master Bull often comes to the non-Gorean side and has found a comfortable posting style in which many non-Goreans appreciate and find witty or informative. Hup (Ron)… well he is Ron. I also see many non-Gorean posters stepping into the Gorean boards and posting very well… puella and hisannabelle being some of the most prolific and a few D’s dive in occasionally and often give good reasonable posts. Now what I am thinking is that CM made this feature possible to expose us to one another so we can build our own bridges and find a comfort level with each that does not exclude us from very useful concepts, philosophies and practices that holds relevance to our own endeavors.

In this thread:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_914209/tm.htm
 
The Goreans looked at it curiously, some posted regardless, respectively, and others posted offended that I had the audacity to set such a boundary.

In this thread:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_914304/tm.htm

I found just about the same.

I look at the hit count and looked at how the posters followed the links, respected the boundaries, and made their curious posts as well as the contrary. For those of you posted on those threads do you feel that you respected boundaries or simply reacted?

I have no need to preach to you and wont turn this into a sermon. I would like to make a few points and invite you to reflect on those, and all of this, and start your fires, make your posts, ask your questions or anything you feel you need to do. All I am asking for is reflection and not knee jerk posting.

We are the largest community in the world. CM proudly makes the claim and I agree. They give us so much and ask for so little. We are such a huge body of kink, interest, fetish, opinion and ideas I am amazed we get along as well as we do. We do this through acceptance, and a few very, very diligent moderators. Think about moderating 500k+ people day in and day out… a thankless job, payless job, but a job well done nonetheless… and remember, I am one of the problem children and can admit it.

We find almost everything within TOS acceptable and some of us do squick on certain things. Some are stronger and avoid things that squick them and some don’t. However Gor is a part of our community and we are a part of theirs. We can thank Gor for giving us some protocol and practice which most all of us use in some capacity in our D/s M/s practice, just as Goreans can thank us for many of our practices that which they use in their M/s D/s practice.

Now ask yourself if it is so hard to bridge the gap from here to there? Is it so hard to ask for more clarification on a point we don’t understand as opposed to tearing down a post and reacting to what we believe we are hearing?

I would appreciate more Gorean input on many topics. A dedicated Gorean practitioner would look at things vastly different than myself and I would love to be exposed to a new perspective or form of thought. Just as I would like to see non-Goreans comfortably contributing thoughts and ideas to many Gorean threads to put their perspective and forms of thought into Gorean practice.


Can we open the door both ways and accept each other to each side?

Can we regard a Gorean post off the Gorean boards as another practitioner giving their 2 cents?

Being a community of broad acceptance… are we?

I am not insisting nor demanding that anyone make these concessions in any way. I would appreciate your reflection and if you, Gorean or non-Gorean feels that this is not possible please say so.

Thank you one and all for your participation in this.



Bearlee -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:38:56 PM)

 
Yep...right up there with the squick factors;  mine may be different than yours, but no better and no worse!
 
I always enjoy conversation and debate; I really can't abide name-calling or holier-than-thou behavior.
 
Good post, FT!
 
and...whatever happened to IB, anyway?



LaTigresse -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:41:34 PM)

Well mofo............connecting all those dots just about made my eyes cross!



HouseGraywolfTX -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:42:10 PM)

(anat) I believe HE left in disgust.....



hisannabelle -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:43:30 PM)

troll,

thank you for this post. :) i fondly remember master ironbear's posts (i used to read on my previous nick, fullofgrace, and i found his words to be insightful and had a huge amount of respect for him). i for one would like to see more bridges built, and less jumping to conclusions, and though i know i am often guilty of this as well, i am and will continue to do my part in attempting to refrain from these kinds of bridge-burning activities. i would like to see more goreans posting outside of the gorean forum, personally, although i can understand why many would choose not to.

i see a certain aura of superiority and denigration of the other's path in posts from both d/s & bdsm practitioners and goreans. i hope this can eventually come to a mutual understanding that everyone's needs are different, so everyone's path will be different. i for one do not consider one to be superior to the other.

thanks again for this post. i think it was definitely needed now.

respectfully,
annabelle.

p.s. i didn't post on either thread, mainly because i just wanted to see what happened...your trollish ways can often be unpredictable ;) also, i was a bit sad because i was afraid i might be away from the computer during The Resolution, but thankfully i am here!



Thadius -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:45:54 PM)

Tal and greetings all,

The RSS feed from the Gorean section had me intrigued as well, but it has also brought a few folks in, that may not have otherwise entered. Many sterotypes exist on both sides of the bridge that you refer to, they are mainly based on secondhand and thirdhand accounts, or as most stereotypes go based on ignorance.  The opening of the doors to let some light shine in, will hopefully clear up some of the misconceptions (on both sides).

I am far from being the most literate or learned man around, but I continue to grow and learn each day.  Much of what I have learned (especially about myself), has come from surprisingly people with different views than my own.  Discussing various ideas and topics, helps reflect on my own views, and even understand (not agree with) the positions of others.  I think this is where common courtesy comes in, I am no angel, extending the simplest of courtesies to somebody in a discussion or even heated debate will yield much better results in the exchange of ideas. That is why we participate here is it not?  While I rarely post in other sections, it is more of a I am not going to tell somebody how to express their kink thing.  If I feel I can add value to a thread, then I post... if not, I don't waste the bandwidth, or other people's time.

I browse and meander though the various sections of the boards, and have even wandered into the Ask a Mistress section.. go figure. This is more of an interest in knowing more about the various kinks, practices, groups, and people that I share a community with.  If I don't understand something, I ask.  It seems alot more productive than ripping apart a post based on my dislike of the topic at hand.  I would prefer to understand the othersides point of view and then weigh it against my own understanding or beliefs.  I think this community has attracted some of the most intelligent folks around, no matter where they find their niche, here.  With a little bit more honest and intellectual discourse, perhaps we as a community could dispell many of the common misconceptions and biases based on labels.

I think that about covers it for now, I look forward to reading any responses and other opinions.

I wish you all well,
Thadius

P.S. Thanks for the kind words LokiTroll Master of Mischief.  I too miss the old honery Ironbear.



pagansub77 -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 3:51:31 PM)

Greetings All,
I'm a new visitor to the Gorean boards here and I would agree it is a good thing to build bridges. I use another site extensively and a thread with a Gorean perspective was started late yesterday. It's at two pages now and not one person has replied with other than snarkiness and out and out rudeness. It is a great shame that some feel the need to belittle what they do not understand.

I am grateful for the chance to learn more here.

Respectfully,
amy

Edited to add.....I went back to the thread and found it had been locked. [&:]



Celeste43 -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:00:34 PM)

I think that mainly we have to just agree to disagree simply because the goreans have as basic tenets things that the nongor types would see as wrong for them. Speaking from a sub stance here I know the freedoms I have are things that would be looked at as aghast on a gor thread.

Unfortunately it seems that a great many of the goreans, male and female alike, have a nasty tendency to come to the nongor threads in order to preach their one true way.

Plus the third party speech grates on me to an extent that I now make it a practice to skip over any post that starts with 'this girl'. If I find it unreadable, then there is no way I am willing to wade through the style of writing in order to find the one nugget of worthwhile info. Especially because so many times there doesn't seem to be one. In any unreadable post, third party speech, text speech etc.



BRNaughtyAngel -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:05:31 PM)

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand some of the Gorean lifestyle, but then again, I don't understand some of the BDSM lifestyle either.  I may be squicked or even appalled at some of the things that people wish to do in regards to their relationships, but I realize that we all need to seek and live what works best for us.

Besides the regular forums, I read the Gorean forums because I try to understand where others are coming from and what makes their relationships work (or not).  I've had questions or comments a few times for the Goreans, but decided to keep them to myself and just keep reading because I wasn't sure of their protocols and didn't want to upset the apple cart, so to speak. 

I may not always understand them, but I respect anyone who chooses to live an honorable, fulfilling life that happens to be a little outside the box...... ummmmmmmm not to exclude that guy that wants to live in a box. [8|]  [;)]



bellanotte -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:14:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Unfortunately it seems that a great many of the goreans, male and female alike, have a nasty tendency to come to the nongor threads in order to preach their one true way.




I don't know if that's any more common than "Our" factions preaching "the one true way" at each other *winks*.... the various factions of non-Gor just don't have separate boards... (i.e., TPE, Old Guard, New Guard, Mickey Mouse, whathaveyou).....

There is a tendency on the part of  -any-one to think their way is the best way... and simply by the act of putting down the "preaching" of someone else, you are "preaching" yourself "superior" to them in a way *winks* (not saying it is intentional, but it IS a side effect if you think about it!)


p.s. FT - I thought those two threads (plus the explanation) was a stroke of brilliance *chuckles*... hopefully it will open some eyes



completenz -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:24:03 PM)

hi
great post Troll, thankyou.
i often read threads that have no revelence to us and our life together. We are mongamous yet i often follow threads in the poly section. We are not Gor and, yet again, i read threads on that list. This 'world' that we are part of is so diverse. Who are we to judge how others choose to live? Though we have decided it is not for us their points of view are just as valid as ours is. i have enjoyed learning what i have from the forums. Though sometimes i find some hard to understand, at least i am trying lol. It would be a boring old world if we were all exactly the same afterall.
hugs
c



PsyVamp -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:25:18 PM)

[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]

Very nicely done FT

Psy
[sm=evil.gif]



AquaticSub -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:28:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Can we open the door both ways and accept each other to each side?



Yes but it will take a great effort on both sides to be polite and respectful.

quote:


Can we regard a Gorean post off the Gorean boards as another practitioner giving their 2 cents?


Depends on the subject and what they are saying, just as vice versa.
quote:


Being a community of broad acceptance… are we?



I don't think we are any more accepting then any other group of people. I think part of the issue with Gor is that by it's nature it's exludes particular relationships, whereas BDSMers tend to try and include everyone. Note: Try.
quote:


I am not insisting nor demanding that anyone make these concessions in any way. I would appreciate your reflection and if you, Gorean or non-Gorean feels that this is not possible please say so.

Thank you one and all for your participation in this.



I do think it's possible. And I hope it does work.



litleone8620 -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:30:38 PM)

I'm glad the Troll posted his web of threads.

I was beginning to question myself the isolation that seemed to be happening between BDSMers and Goreans.

I don't feel as if i 'belong' in any one category, and am always moving among the various forums to learn more. I don't think a person can ever stop learning about WIITWD, and it defintely wouldn't hurt to look at the other forums, just to get a better understanding of what other people do.

Just because you're not Gorean or anything else doesn't mean you're not allowed to go into a certain forum. Admitedly, there are those who make you feel unwelcome in both the Gorean and BDSM forum.

I would love to see more diversity within the individual forums. But it might be slow to take effect.






Mercnbeth -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:31:43 PM)

quote:

 I too miss the old honery Ironbear.


IB is doing well He migrated to a different site: http://ironbear2005.proboards62.com/ 



OrionTheWolf -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:33:08 PM)

Greetings Troll,

I had a feeling that it would be something like this, but the cynic in me thought it would be very nefarious. I have posted on occasion in the non-Gor areas and have found that many reacted to me in a certain way, as soon as they read my profile. I was not about to explain to any of them that before Gor I had been involved in the BDSM scene here in Atlanta for 13 years, or what I had or had not Mastered within the BDSM realm. I admit I just got tired of expending energy try to discuss and offer an opinion when many just seemed they wished to use me as a target because I identified with the Gorean Philosophies. I tried that building a bridge many times and maybe when I feel better about building bridges I may yet try again.

Orion



Donnalee -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 4:36:24 PM)

I never even heard the term Gorean until I came to this site, and am glad it's here in the mix.  The easier it is to learn about each other, the more similarities we can find and hopefully respect of the differences.  There are lots of kinky things I'm never going to try...they just don't appeal to me, but I'd never have found the ones I find delicious if I hadn't been willing to witness other's.

I have a friend who often says, "Baskin Robbins doesn't make 31 flavors because vanilla is wrong."



dawntreader -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 6:06:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

Now ask yourself if it is so hard to bridge the gap from here to there?  No

Is it so hard to ask for more clarification on a point we don’t understand as opposed to tearing down a post and reacting to what we believe we are hearing?
No

Can we open the door both ways and accept each other to each side?
Yes
Can we regard a Gorean post off the Gorean boards as another practitioner giving their 2 cents?
Yes
Being a community of broad acceptance… are we?    i hope so...



What an amazing thread :-) and bridges can be built but not with ego...
And while i agree with and applaud the hard work and dedication of the Moderators who run CM;  it is we, the community, that have the power to make this site successful and welcoming by how we chose to express ourselves here and to each other~
 
To quote a translation from an ancient book of wisdom:




“When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you.”


[image]http://en.thinkexist.com/i/sq/as4.gif[/image] Lao Tzu



Rule -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 6:53:35 PM)

There is a time for building bridges and a time for tearing them down. Today I tore down one bridge. I think that was a good thing.
 
As for Gor: I have read all the books except the last one (too expensive for my means). These books taught me much about the nature of slaves. If anything the books have raised me as a Gorean. So as far as I am concerned the bridges are already there.



stockingluvr54 -> RE: “Bridging respect” (3/26/2007 6:56:05 PM)

What's this talk of Goreans, Romulins and Klingons,etc.....????

Warp factor 7 Mr. Zulu....I'm outta here...........



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