1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


LadyEllen -> 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 12:28:55 PM)

This was on the news earlier, that poverty rates in the world's 4th wealthiest nation are now at 1 in 5 people. Thats the UK, in case you didnt know. This is the first year since 1997 when Blair was elected, that the rate has increased.

12.1 million out of 60 million now live in absolute poverty - this isnt relative to anyone or anything, but in absolute terms. Worse still, this figure includes many who are working full time, not just those whose only income is social benefits.

Tony Blair pledged in 1997 to reverse and eliminate poverty in the UK, particularly in relation to children living in poverty. He had been doing well on this, with the number in poverty falling year after year, until now.

In the meantime, a director of Barclays Bank in London, yesterday made the record books with his £22 million pay package.

For we who are in the middle of all this, earning enough to live to a reasonable standard but by no means enough to afford a pension let alone luxuries, the burden grows inexorably; rising taxes to support those in poverty, whilst working harder to provide outrageous pay packages for those at the top.

And also in the meantime, we are spending millions every week in Iraq and are to find several billion to hold the Olympics in London in 2012. 

No point to make with this post. It just got to me.






Lashra -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 12:37:33 PM)

Its the same way here LadyEllen. The "middle class" is being bled dry to line the pockets of the rich and to support the poor. Gas prices are soaring, the housing market is crumbling, wages aren't going up, jobs are being out source, our prisons are filled to capacity, drugs and gangs are running rampant. We are involved in a war that most of us didn't even want involvement in. But there is a silver lining! Our beloved President and Company says its going to be ok and after all, he wouldn't lie to us, would he?[:@]

~Lashra




redsky -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 12:37:56 PM)

it gets to me too & i am sure we are not alone. As long as the fat cats' pockets are kept full then the rest of the UK doesnt really matter. i was throwing out an old microwave, a wooden toy box & some pretty old towels the other week & a lady who has moved not far from us with her two children from another country asked me if she could have them, they were sat outside the house, the towels on top of the wheelie bin.... i felt so embarrassed for her. How can this country have gotten so bad in such a short space of time?




Seatonstomb -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 12:39:27 PM)

Not a big surprise there with the new tories in power. UK has a 100% tax rate for the lowest paid and less than a 40% tax rate for its richest. Didn't old Gordon just scrap the introductory tax rate and replace it with a 20% basic rate.




seeksfemslave -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 2:23:03 PM)

LadyE: really, the report said children and did say relative poverty. which is not the same as absolute poverty.

I saw your post where you said you had met people from CM , I hope one of them wasn't NG and he managed to talk you round to his point of view. Just like me he is a bit of a charmer.!

Did he take you for some Fish/Chips wrapped in the Socialist Worker.




LadyEllen -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 2:41:21 PM)

Actually Seeks, they gave different figures for absolute and relative poverty for all, and for children.

No, never met NG - we see a few things in common, as I and you do, but there'd be too much aggro if he and I got together!

E

PS - wrapping chips in newspaper (if the Socialist Worker is a newspaper) was banned by those PC liberals dont you know?




b12345 -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/27/2007 10:23:13 PM)

The method for computing absolute poverty is misleading.   As a statistic it is still dependent on others incomes and therefore to some degree relitive.  As used in the study it is far different from say the either the old (income) or new (multi-demensional) world bank messures of poverty, (by most international standards I would assume the UK to have a povery rate of <2% maybe even <1%.)

For the purposes of the the annual figures I assume you are refering to: 
-Absolute poverty is defined as being a measure of whether those households on the lowest incomes—less than 60% of the median average income—are seeing their income rise in real terms.

-Relative poverty is a measure of whether those in the lowest income households are keeping pace with the growth in incomes in the economy as a whole.

By most international standards things are not nearly as bad as one would think after reading the recent news over there in the UK.  Until recently most economists and the world bank measured poverty roughly as having income of less then $1US per day.  I doubt many people in the UK certainly not 1 in 5 make less than 185 Pounds a year. 

The study realy is more about an increasing wealth gap.  People talk about the middle class struggling to make ends meet, and the rich getting richer.  IMHO the middle class in countries like the US and UK should take a step back and realize that they are very well off, relitive to the rest of the world or for that matter almost any other period in time.  Even the "poor" in countries like the US and UK have a higher standard of living in many respects than the richest royalty of just a couple centuries ago.  As far as people being over extedned, a acuantance of mine once was a very successful stock broker and made a fair amount of money, and then drank it all away and lost his job.  Then after cleaning up he didn;t make near as much money as before, and complained of being streched thin, and financially unstable, until it occured to him that he could just lower his standard of living and be just as happy.  He moved into a cheaper apartment, got a car that was functional, but no more, stopped buying expensive clothing, didn't eat out, and all of the sudden he had no more financial insecurity, and became much happier.  People in most 1st world nations are not a risk of failing to meet basic needs, unless it is do to there own foolishmess.  Most "middle class" and to a large degree even "poor people's" financial troubles are more or less a result of "trying to keep up with the joneses".   If you are concerned with poverty, most of subsaharan Africa, Parts of central and south america, and inland Asia have lots to be found.  US, UK, most of Western europe, there is increasing welth disparity, but it can hardly be considered  poverty IMHO.

B




seeksfemslave -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 12:06:33 AM)

Good post b12345 and also in the UK massive, and I mean very large, amounts of Welfare are diverted towards encouraging the economically insecure and willfully feckless to "knock out sprogs", ie breed as and when its convenient for them.

Some put this breeding down to lack of Sex Education and hence demand more government expenditure.
I think a sea change to the benefit system is required but every bleeding heart Liberal would be up in arms so I dont think that is very likely.




UtopianRanger -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 1:30:02 AM)

quote:

I saw your post where you said you had met people from CM , I hope one of them wasn't NG and he managed to talk you round to his point of view. Just like me he is a bit of a charmer.!

Did he take you for some Fish/Chips wrapped in the Socialist Worker.


This is far-n-away one of the coldest, most loathsome posts you've ever made :  You're trying to tie-together/demean / implicate the Gent's honest socialist/equality ideology with good, old-fashioned English Fish-n-chips.


What gives? [8D]





- R





Real0ne -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 1:58:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Its the same way here LadyEllen. The "middle class" is being bled dry to line the pockets of the rich and to support the poor. Gas prices are soaring, the housing market is crumbling, wages aren't going up, jobs are being out source, our prisons are filled to capacity, drugs and gangs are running rampant. We are involved in a war that most of us didn't even want involvement in. But there is a silver lining! Our beloved President and Company says its going to be ok and after all, he wouldn't lie to us, would he?[:@]

~Lashra



and that is combined with the value of the dollar declining by over 30% in the last 4 years to make matters even better :)

joke is monetary and tax reform would solve it but we the people are clueless to that.




seeksfemslave -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 2:43:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
quote:

I saw your post where you said you had met people from CM , I hope one of them wasn't NG and he managed to talk you round to his point of view. Just like me he is a bit of a charmer.!
Did he take you for some Fish/Chips wrapped in the Socialist Worker.


This is far-n-away one of the coldest, most loathsome posts you've ever made :  You're trying to tie-together/demean / implicate the Gent's honest socialist/equality ideology with good, old-fashioned English Fish-n-chips.
What gives? [8D]
- R


big lols UR
Honest NG's posts may be, in the sense that he appears to believe the mush he puts out. Sprinkled with facts I concede.
but
when he tries to draw general conclusions from his knowledge he quite frequently makes major errors and rarely rises above sentimental "do goodery" of the type
<society would be better if all would behave well.>
<Peace is preferable to WAR.>

The boy should go far. lol




DCWoody -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 9:53:49 AM)

Don't have anything to add to this, just thought it was such an accurate summary it needed saying twice......


quote:

ORIGINAL: b12345

The method for computing absolute poverty is misleading.   As a statistic it is still dependent on others incomes and therefore to some degree relitive.  As used in the study it is far different from say the either the old (income) or new (multi-demensional) world bank messures of poverty, (by most international standards I would assume the UK to have a povery rate of <2% maybe even <1%.)

For the purposes of the the annual figures I assume you are refering to: 
-Absolute poverty is defined as being a measure of whether those households on the lowest incomes—less than 60% of the median average income—are seeing their income rise in real terms.

-Relative poverty is a measure of whether those in the lowest income households are keeping pace with the growth in incomes in the economy as a whole.

By most international standards things are not nearly as bad as one would think after reading the recent news over there in the UK.  Until recently most economists and the world bank measured poverty roughly as having income of less then $1US per day.  I doubt many people in the UK certainly not 1 in 5 make less than 185 Pounds a year. 

The study realy is more about an increasing wealth gap.  People talk about the middle class struggling to make ends meet, and the rich getting richer.  IMHO the middle class in countries like the US and UK should take a step back and realize that they are very well off, relitive to the rest of the world or for that matter almost any other period in time.  Even the "poor" in countries like the US and UK have a higher standard of living in many respects than the richest royalty of just a couple centuries ago.  As far as people being over extedned, a acuantance of mine once was a very successful stock broker and made a fair amount of money, and then drank it all away and lost his job.  Then after cleaning up he didn;t make near as much money as before, and complained of being streched thin, and financially unstable, until it occured to him that he could just lower his standard of living and be just as happy.  He moved into a cheaper apartment, got a car that was functional, but no more, stopped buying expensive clothing, didn't eat out, and all of the sudden he had no more financial insecurity, and became much happier.  People in most 1st world nations are not a risk of failing to meet basic needs, unless it is do to there own foolishmess.  Most "middle class" and to a large degree even "poor people's" financial troubles are more or less a result of "trying to keep up with the joneses".   If you are concerned with poverty, most of subsaharan Africa, Parts of central and south america, and inland Asia have lots to be found.  US, UK, most of Western europe, there is increasing welth disparity, but it can hardly be considered  poverty IMHO.

B




DCWoody -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 9:58:14 AM)

If you are correct, that a significant number of people are encouraged to have children by the existence of child benefit....I would say that's a good thing under the circumstances....our population is barely growing and we have an aging population problem looming, we need all the kids and immigrants (immigrants under 30 that is) that we can get......


quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Good post b12345 and also in the UK massive, and I mean very large, amounts of Welfare are diverted towards encouraging the economically insecure and willfully feckless to "knock out sprogs", ie breed as and when its convenient for them.

Some put this breeding down to lack of Sex Education and hence demand more government expenditure.
I think a sea change to the benefit system is required but every bleeding heart Liberal would be up in arms so I dont think that is very likely.




seeksfemslave -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 3:05:16 PM)

DCwoody perleese, the male offspring of casual sexual encounters frequently, at adolescence, are the cause of mayhem and social dislocation, the female offspring just produce more sprogs to perpetuate the problem

Meanwhile immigrants , in the UK at least, top the birth rate.




popeye1250 -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 3:50:36 PM)

One in five? In poverty?
My God, haven't these people heard of Bank Robbery?
Show some initiative for Pete's sake!
What do they get, 100 Euros per week on the dole? For sitting on their arses?
You could walk into a bank and scoop up 20,000 E !
Lazy bastards!





DCWoody -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 6:26:30 PM)

"DCwoody perleese, the male offspring of casual sexual encounters frequently, at adolescence, are the cause of mayhem and social dislocation, the female offspring just produce more sprogs"

True to a small extent, but after adolesence they get jobs (seriously, check out the unemployment stats), I really disagree with you that there are very many people at all who are encouraged to have kdis by the welfare system.....my point is simply that without population growth, coming from immigration and the birth rate being highest amongst the poorest, the country will not in years to come be able to afford to support those born in the post war baby boom(s), who are getting towards retirement age and will no longer be contributing to the economy.


And there is no immigration problem in the UK btw, immigrants drive our economy; the average immigrant pays much more tax and receives much less in benefits than the average person born here. Immigration in the UK is a good thing.




popeye1250 -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 7:18:44 PM)

DCWoody, if immigration is a "good thing" then why aren't Japan, China, India and other countries engaging in it?




pahunkboy -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 7:46:45 PM)

now more the ever- so many more % wise are a paycheck or 2 away fro financial ruin. when u are down and out- no one knows you- u get kicked to the curb.

im surprised that 20% in UK.

right off the bat- ild say anyone reading this message is better off then 4 billion ppl on the planet.

even still- last month someone set 2 homelss ppl that were asleep on fire- [that is sickening to me]

ild say 8 out of 10 ppl i know have taken a job cut or paycut.

IMO we are the last generation to live well.  

thats becos- resources are limited and population is at full capacity.  oil is of value- but expect drinking water to become sought after in coming years......




Missterri26L -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 7:48:06 PM)

immigration is a good thing for the UK......japan india and china already have massive working populations. besides....how would China 'engage' in it? that's a ridiculous suggestion to imply that a country can choose to have lots of immigrants........you can try to keep people out, or in, but you can't force people to come......




pahunkboy -> RE: 1 in 5 in absolute poverty in the UK (3/28/2007 7:50:34 PM)

to the poster whom said banning incadescent lightbulbs is fascism- i disagree.  EU is phazing them out sooner the california.
it will save ALOT of energy useage.

ild be more "mad" over the coming obsolence of todays TV sets.

LED lighting is even more futuristic- basically you can build your own video wall right NOW- with LEDs and teh cost of lighting it is nominal. i wish i had that skill....




Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.1103516