rskenderian
Posts: 48
Joined: 3/6/2007
From: Coventry, CT, USA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa
Subs or slaves are people with a submissive nature and find great pleasure in serving others. Often times they "bottom" and thus people confuse the terms. Subs/slaves tend to avoid conflict and just want everyone to play nice. They thrive on their service to their owner. Many find the outside world and it's lack of rules confusing and thus they look for a dominant to establish limits to their world. The sub or slave needs to know there are limits to their world.
ahhhhh
Thank-You, Mistress Melissa.
That's an excellent point/definition, and helped me out tremendously. The validity of that - for me - is very important. i tend to use 'higher-maintenance' or some other description; but what You said here is a quotable quote for me.
... and You beat me to the point that i don't really it think it matters, as long as it works for two people. From what i've seen and experienced, relationships - like LTR marriage kind - end up evolving and being pretty dynamic with all sorts of surprises, and no two are the same, and i've learned not to take anything for granted.
For me, it starts out with tendencies, so, given most sites and people, i have to label myself something; usually "slave", "sub", or "switch". But in a relationship, i like things to become more dynamic, as more and more is explored and accepted into the relationship. My ex-Domme used to love topping from the bottom with sex. Makes perfect sense to me - and was always completely enjoyable :) and had zero conflict with anything else. Just more goodies for Everyone.
But if someone were to walk in and see what was going on, they'd think i was a sadistic Dom playing out a violent rape(ier?) scene-thing-kink-passion, without question, stuffing Her head into the pillow so She had to fight while She's cumming off the bed, out the door, down the stairs and sometimes out onto the lawn, stopping at the neighbors for some water and so forth. i really think She liked it alot.
That's what it's really all about, as far as i can see; whatever 'does' You. There's no such thing as "You're not supposed to do that," with People in Their Relationship, and i think it would be a nice relief if Everyone might consider that labels are just for starting out, and that they are not comprehensive at all about an individual, or - especially - what a potential real relationship will end up being like. Some People might be a 'classic category' type, where they are so much of one thing they can't conceive of anthing else, and that's why there's BDSM.
But People are dynamic in some way or another, and nobody is the same, so, in such way, any definition is really not a definition, but a "tendency".
Perhaps, instead of having 'conflicts' of "Who Am I, Really?" - why not accept everything; because THAT's who You Are ... probably.
i made a post awhile bak, saying that BDSM exists for more extreme individuals with strong proclivities as One Thing Only, which i posted in the "Switch" forum. i can't see anyone flaming on somebody else who is very Dominant or very submissive - BDSM is for Those People; if you don't like it, form you're own sub-culture where singularity is unacceptable.
Really, it is gracious that severely D/s or S/M folk are respectful and generously accepting of others who are NOT 'severe', and take the time to assist them. But 'trying' to be Dominant or submissive i don't understand. Why "try" to be something you really aren't (otherwise you would be), and instead accept yourself as you are and go with that.
Being honest with yourself is highly important in this arena, because you're here to get your wants/desires/needs fulfilled. The key word in that last sentence being "YOUR".
"Real sub"?
Am i a "real sub"?. It's like everything else; if you have to ask, the answer is "No." It means that you're more dynamic than being heavily that one thing, which is ok in itself, obviously, when you just simpy look at it. It's only in the BDSM sub-culture where that question has relevence, because BDSM exists for People Who Are Heavily One Thing, and to be 'accepted' means you are supposed to be Heavily One Thing.
But there's a great deal of acceptance by those who naturally embody what BDSM is towards those who might not be 'the real thing'. Additionally, there's the 'purists' who want to keep BDSM pure. There's nothing that can realistically be done about either; and sub-culture has to deal with these things.
But, as far as i can see, Acceptance is very key.
If Purists allow non-purists to accept themselves as they really are - because Purists will let them, then it will be ok for someone who is, say, 'not the real thing' to be 'not the real thing', but to openly be who they really are instead.
This clears the problem and everyone is happy. Everybody gets to be completely comfortable being Who They Actually Are, and everyone can get their wants, cravings, desires, and needs met - AND! - there won't be the confusion there is now, and the problem of people 'trying' to be Heavily One Thing - when they really aren't - will be greatly relieved.
Now, Purists can be happier, since people have less a need to be like Purists, and Purists can now be known as Purists and there's no confusion about it. Purists can receive the respect and acknowledgement and place they really deserve in their own sub-culture.
With the tolerant BDSM sub-culture, others are allowed to freely be themselves and explore these 'things and feelings' which lead them to BDSM. They are not EXPECTED or DEMANDED to be Heavily One Thing - because they aren't, and don't need to be, and they are free from that pressure which causes all this confusion. Now there is no need for them to "try" and be something they're not, and can actually enjoy their exploration, without this pressure of acceptance and the hurt of being unaccepted.
Belonging is very important to Human Beings. When i moved into an artists' community whne i was about 30yo, i discovered just how important community is, and what i had been missing all my life. i was simply never so happy.
Personally, i don't like it when people are trying to be something they aren't - whether it's an artist or someone BDSM. But, by me smacking them in the community for not being a 'real artist' (yes, it's exactly the same and completely interchangeable), i'm taking away something they are really needing, and they only end up trying harder to be a 'real artist' and profess all the more that they are a 'real artist' as much as i am - and (the ever-famous line i receive) "Who am i to Judge?"
Well, i'm a real artist; and i resent you even thinking you're like me, never-mind saying you're like me. i belong here - you don't.
That kind of thing.
But, honestly, that's completely evident; that, yes, i am, in fact, a real artist. And so is who is really BDSM (although i think it's a bit more difficult to tell with BDSM, but maybe that's me, because i'm Really Heavily an Artist than Heavily BDSM). And it's probably evident to those who are 'really BDSM' who's 'really BDSM'.
Oddly, no-one knows what "art" is, nor what an "artist" is ... and, just as much, no-one knows what "BDSM" really is, nor what a "D/s" is.
But, those Who feel it and are it - whatever the "it" really is, do know in their feelings and experience. Art is unquestionably a catharsis. So is BDSM. But they're more than that, too. Both are too complex, using every apsect of a Human Being to be so easily defined. That, in itself, is complex enough. But when you add a community of expectation on top of it, things can get very confusing.
Honestly, i have no problem at all with people doing artistic things; i think it's good for them to do that, and i actually do support them fully in their reaching what they're somehow are there to achieve, and i'll always be there to offer that support. But i cannot stand people saying they are like me when they are not at all.
But judging and criticism doesn't seem to work well - whether it's in an artists' community or a BDSM community.
Giving people the freedom to be who they really are, and - for me that's always more than acceptable; it's perfect - let's them really pursue what they really need to; and i always want that for others, for everyone. Putting pressure on them to be something they aren't means i'm not letting them be themselves and not letting them get what they really need for themselves. And when people who are 'trying' to be an artist find out just what an artist really is ... well ... they tend to make a very fast and very easy decision that they just *might not* really want to be that.
So, you want to be a 'real artist' and wake up and blow off work completely and without hesitation because you HAVE to keep working on the poem you're writing? And You can't stop writing the entire day, and night, and into the next day until you pass out and the pen slides down the peice of paper as you pass out into sleep because you cannot possibly keep your eyes open any longer? And you forgot to eat? Etc..
That's what you want to be?
HARRRRR!!!
So, you want to be a 'real sub' and give everything you have always, and .....?
So, you want to be a real Dominant, and be responsible for this other person, and ...?
When people know, in a kind and matt-of-fact way, what it's really like, it makes their decision much, much easier, and they can feel very, very comfortable with it, indeed.
NOBODY in their right mind wants to be a 'real artist'!
It's horrible.
So, you want to live like me? This is the life you want for yourself? You just Have to HAVE it, and nothing else can possibly satisfy your hungers and passions? Are you mental?
So, anyway; "real or not real"....
With acceptance and kindess and a real education, person-to-person, about what it's really like, people can make their decisions much better. And the "real artists" and the "real D/s's" can continue to be who they are, and have their belonging and community and respect, and not many people are going to "try" to be that. They will be very, vey happy being what and who they really are, instead.
Given the freedom and encouragement to be who they really are, they will tend to always choose who they really are.
That's what i think!
- richard "puppy
<edited for much, much more inclusion - richard>
< Message edited by rskenderian -- 3/31/2007 1:28:11 AM >
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Free: exc. puppy to good home, caring Owner. Intelligent, trainable, affectionate, loyal. Loves: to please, love, toys/playtime, visitors, B/D, kittens, D/s etc. Wolfish; needs collar. Has tantrums, needs spankings. Tends to come from a place of passion.
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RE: Real sub or not? - 
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