KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (3/30/2007 12:44:18 PM)

The suit also said that the charge of murder leveled against McVeigh is not a charge the federal government can legally bring against a suspect alleged to have committed a crime in a state.

"The language in the indictment alleging 'murder' is not 'admissible evidence of law' for any matter arising from the collapse of the Murrah Federal Building," the suit said. "Therefore, that pleading does not activate Article III subject matter jurisdiction, and those charges in the indictment are void on their face. Thus, the United States District Court had no authority to try the 'murder' charges, and the adjudication of guilt and the order issuing the death penalty are void and unenforceable."

Article III, Section 2 of the Constitution says: "The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed. …"

{ambiguous aint it?}

"Further," the suit alleges, "no criminal matter – not even treason – can be tried by a court, whether a State or a United States trial court, outside the state in which those acts occurred. Yet the cases against McVeigh were transferred across the Oklahoma state line, namely to Denver, Colorado. …"

"The 'murder' charges in the indictment were based on language that is not the law of the United States," Taylor said. "If such language is law, it can only be law in the District of Columbia" – the only place where Congress and the federal judiciary have full control, since it is not a state.

"The court has already overruled our request for a temporary restraining order,
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23003


McVeigh could probably have been charged and convicted in Oklahoma of mass murder and could have received the death penalty. However, the Clinton-Gore-Reno Justice Department wanted to convict McVeigh of a federal crime for which the penalty was death. So, presto-chango, they somehow got a federal judge to accept their claim that Congress intended a truckload of fertilizer soaked in fuel oil to be considered a ‘weapon of mass destruction’.

For Clinton, a word or phrase -- for example, ‘weapons of mass destruction’ -- means whatever he wants it to mean, whether in obtaining a federal death penalty for McVeigh or in bombing aspirin factories in the Sudan. Now, you may think -- as Bill Clinton certainly does -- that any means employed to get the desired outcome is justified by that outcome. Clinton has even been quoted by staff as saying -- "Sometimes you have to do a little bad in order to do a lot of good."

Well, Clinton and Tony Blair -- who are reputedly bright enough to know the difference between a nuke and a truckload of fertilizer -- have convinced you and the funny old Brits that WMD always means ‘nukes’ and that if they don’t bomb Iraq every two or three days, the Iraqis will rise up and nuke you in your jammies. How did they convince you of that?

snip

But if all we want to do is 'remove' Saddam, then we ought to get on with it. Maybe, like in the film The Dirty Dozen, we could get condemned WMD murderer McVeigh to finish out his Gulf War tour of duty -- and perhaps partially redeem himself -- by a one-way delivery of "a weapon of mass destruction, namely an explosive bomb placed in a truck" to Saddam’s palace in Baghdad.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21843

The Mcveigh Trial Was Unconstitutional and Immoral
by David Smith
6/11/2001

Please don’t expect me to say a word in Timothy McVeigh’s defense. I’ll leave that to the Hollywood types who, once Wesley Cook (excuse me, Mumia Abu-Jamal) is justly executed, may have too much time on their hands once again.

Mr. McVeigh’s admitted actions are criminal and deserving of capital punishment by any standard of measurement (except possibly the French). This is true whether he acted alone or in concert with others (as I am sure he did, his testimony to the contrary notwithstanding).

I will deal with my former assertion first, namely that McVeigh’s trial was unconstitutional.

Let me begin by saying that as a Catholic I firmly believe in Christ’s saying that "by the fruit the tree is known." (St. Matthew 12:33) I therefore reject the U.S. Constitution, since it has given rise to the criminal and imperialistic "federal" government. Scholars can debate the finer points of its

http://anti-state.com/article.php?article_id=36



we didnt care then, do we really care now?  We certainly wont care in the future.  Another bipartisan effort. 



Termyn8or -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/2/2007 7:31:30 PM)

McVeigh fucked up. Why they purposely fucked up his trial is no mystery. They want people to get used to the fact that no rule of law, no tenet of the Constitution nor anything else changes the fact that what they say goes.

If Mc Veigh had a brain he would've done things a bit different. It takes a fucking idiot to bomb the place during the day. Anyone with half a brain would know that the stigma the public would attach to what happened to children there is not worth any gain no matter how great. And what was that gain ?

First of all you are going to have a hard time scaring somebody as stupid as the government.Now by that I do not mean that they are all morons, what I mean that they are stupid to think that their plans are going to work as expected. Having been insulated from consequences most of their lives, they are pretty much unfit to own a dog, let alone run the world.

They're all fucking stupid. Here's what a Mc Veigh with a whole fucking functional brain would've done :

This is not a high budget operation brainiac Go find some other MENSA candidates and blow up say 30 buildings. All gov buildings, AT MIDNIGHT, when there are no fucking kids there, when you don't incur that wrath. Yes, about 30 federal buildings at midnight, but actually no time zones. I mean the ones on the west coast go off at 10 or 11 PM, midwest 12, and so forth, that is that they go off simultaneously.

Now what is the gain ? Martial law of course, but we got that anyway. If the shock and awe was there more people might wake up, and more people would be thinking about electing competent, or more aptly put, TRUSTABLE leaders to office.

It would indeed be a mess no matter what, but we got the mess anyway. It just didn't do any good. The sheeple are still blaming "those fucking towelheads" and not even seeking the truth. Mc Veigh did nothing for his supposed cause, if his cause was to wake people up and stir the commoners to action. His trick was so counterproductive to those who believe in truth and justice, those who want to throw the assholes out or their ear, that I think there is a possibility that the gov itself helped him out. John Doe number two, three, who knows ?

That action certainly furthered the interests of a totalitarian regime. As did 9/11. As did the WTC bombing in 1993. The US gov's dirty laundry about that is so well known I won't even bother with a link. Just Google for 1993 WTC bombing complicity. But before you do maybe we need a pool on how many hits it gets. I think it'll get about 300,000 or so.

So I shed no tear for Mc Veigh, even if somehow he got twisted enough to think he was doing right, he brought the emnity of the common person down on militia type groups, 2nd amendment supporters, anyone who values freedom, and frankly, alot of us have had enough of this shit. We have exactly the same shit here as the horror stories our great Grandparents told us about "in the old country". And we have a little bit more of it thanks to Mc Veigh. I am glad they whacked him. He was never an asset to the patriot, nor any other positive movement in this country, as evidenced by his action.

Even Mc Veigh's motives are in question. Note the date. There is some connection between this and what happened at the Weaver place on Ruby Ridge. Incorrect thinking.

Overall those the gov classifies as terrorists are not so smart. Their actions produce no positive effects. Speaking of actions, what of 9/11 ? If they were Arab and were sick of the US's bombs, why didn't they fly all of the planes into the pentagon ? Noone in the WTC ordered military action. It had glorified bean counters there.

So anyway, if Mc Veigh had a brain, there could have been a statement made, a positive influence, but instead we got dead kids.

I don't care if Bealsibub (sp) himself was in the Murrah building. It wasn't worth it.

No wonder aliens don't come here, it is too fucking hard to find any intelligent life.

T 



ferryman777 -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/4/2007 8:34:54 AM)

With all that you say, do you actually think he acted alone? Look what it accomplished. Everything the gov. wanted, needed, to heap additional policing agendas, and curtailing freedoms. Just coincidental ?????

Read the Patriot Act.



Termyn8or -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/4/2007 10:35:09 PM)

Even if totally outside people are involved, those they can only influence by their actions, this is still all part of the plan. We are merely seeing another stage being orchestrated.

Ferry, I dont really need to read the Patriot Act, we all know what it says. Less for the People and more for the government. How could you expect anything else ?

Incidentally, Ron Paul, Tome Tancredo and two other congressmen are doing their job. The discovered a covert plan by the Bush administration to yield sovereignty of the US over to a new North American Alliance. The dollar would be replaced by the 'Amero' and our Constitution and laws would become subject to rulers who are not elected at all, much like the Brits in jail for crimes that were not a crime until the EU.

Four congressmen have introduced a bill against this action. Now with the republican administration likely to veto, there is one hope, that enough reps from the western states stand against the lobbyists and vote not to join, nor even form this union.

What sticks in my mind is that the congressmen got the information via the FOIA. The Bush administration hoped to get this halfway done before leaving office, absent the checks and balances of congress and senate.

For any of you who knows anything about history or anything, I am sure you know that these actions by a US President absolutely and unequivocably constitute High Treason.

Any US Citizen who does not see that was not educated properly. And that is that.

T



rskenderian -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/5/2007 1:31:38 AM)

See thread "Global warming.... " because you can't ascertain what's going on in the smaller picture without understanding it within the larger context.

Constitutional Rights are gone. So is democracy. These things are a memory only at this time. That the government, or, more appropriately, Those-in-Power, are willing to pull the strings to their agenda, regardless of what those strings are, is plainly evident.

That there is more than just the USA government taking motions is also evident. Could Those-in-Power have orchestrated things like:

- the most embarrassing 3rd party ever, the Ross Perot campaign, and what there-in was completely unbelievable and in no way possible in reality, the Ross Perot vice-presidential debate, aired globally?
An 80-year old senile Admiral who confesses in public, on stage, in a Vice-Presidential debate, aired around the planet, that he doesn't even understand the questions put forth?
That's who's chosen as the Vice-President.?Anyone watch that Vice-Presidential debate?
That can we scare the public enough about  the 'incompetence' of 3rd parties???
Was there a 3rd party campaign created to utterly destroy the legitimacy of any further 3rd party campaigns, called the Ross Perot campaign?
Look at a viable 3rd-party, headed by Ralph Nader.
I don't think you want to put a Bush and a Clinton up on stage with that guy ... i really don't.
So they didn't.
Ross Perot gets in, and a retired, senile Admiral who's answer to several Vice-Presidential debate questions is; "I don't have a clue what's going on."
But Ralph Nader leading a legitimate 3rd party is blackballed?

So 9/11 (911 = the number you dial for police, for emergencies ... strange it became known as that, yes, no, coincidence?) might have been a string pulled to give the USA military every right to invade and take over the entire Middle East?

"liaise faire is everywhere"
- Klondike Kat (or the little mouse, whatever his name was)
(sp?)

If the Powers-That-Be are orchestrating this much on a global level, doesn't that signify their complete success and absolute victory?

If this is the case, then is there any point is discussing it? If not a purpose for discussion, is there a purpose to any action?

That's what i'm interested in. i don't see a purpose in too much more than an acknowledgment of the fact. i don't see what can be done. Because, unless you are personally ready to get out all your firearms and use them, it's all over. Your rights to firearms will slowly disintegrate, as they already cleverly are being disintegrated.

i hate to think such, but it is obvious that things have to change, and that there is no longer any room left for unbridled rights or individualism. Those rights have been abused fully, and now they will be taken away. Destiny. Survival. Evolution.

richard "wolf-puppy"



Real0ne -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/5/2007 9:38:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rskenderian
That's what i'm interested in. i don't see a purpose in too much more than an acknowledgment of the fact. i don't see what can be done. Because, unless you are personally ready to get out all your firearms and use them, it's all over. Your rights to firearms will slowly disintegrate, as they already cleverly are being disintegrated.

i hate to think such, but it is obvious that things have to change, and that there is no longer any room left for unbridled rights or individualism. Those rights have been abused fully, and now they will be taken away. Destiny. Survival. Evolution.


that is what happens when things get shoved under the carpet long enough.  It will eventually come down to do or die or simply become slaves to the master.

It seems to me that if it comes down to it and we have to die, it may as well be with honor fighting those who would oppress us.

The problem of course is that we are dealing with an oppressor with superior intelligence to the general public.  That and there are many associated problems, like ego, misplaced trust, cowardice, and a host of other issues that get in the way of ever combatting such oppressors.

People today and i mean truly educated people sinmply cannot comprehend life any other way.  That is working out or finding a solution to these issues as a whole.  They look at our failed country and are always able to find loop holes and there always will be , and of course the only way to combat this is  with effective power given to the people and people who "know the difference".

People cry to the governemnt to resolve their hang nail problem rather than accept responsibility, hive concept, socialism.   They lack understanding that life can be much better and have much greater benefits and real wealth if done as sovereigns rather than slaves. 



ferryman777 -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/5/2007 9:59:36 AM)

General response;
Termyn8or; rskenderian, realone; I see we are all in total agreement; I didn't mean it nastylike to have plugged in; 'read the patriot act'; from the understanding, it is an updated article of Hitler's 'Enabling Act'. Senators who voted for it, admitted they never read it.

The Amero.....now that's indeed shocking. This is how the consitution will be null and void. And do we hear about it on the radio, TV, no, not at all. Now, this is just like the Gat, Nafta acts; they were hand carried by Bush sr. up untill the final days, hours of the transition to Clinton; all signed and delivered to Clinton remaining only a presidential signature. Clinton gets the credit for it's passge into law. The same will happen with this Amero thing.

I wish I could articulate all this as well as you guys. BRAVO guys.

Well, I've said what you've said here, for the most part, for years, and have been insluted, chidded for not being informed, a ratical non-patriot; whatever else. Maybe it's my delivery. Ya Think?




Termyn8or -> RE: KaSloosh - Flushing More of The Constitution Down da Tubes (4/9/2007 2:00:50 PM)

I just got off the phone with my sister, to whom I sometimes refer to as my sinister. Only two letters difference see.

We were talking about how different we are than most people, and we are.

Many things were discussed, including the fact that I think those who use the words 'collateral damage' should BECOME collateral damage. All that about McVeigh too, how he was a total asshole. I told her what I would've done, but with one little detail.

Unless there was  real effort, something really going on, I would not do it until both our Parents are dead. I believe at birth we are charged with the duty of 1, growing and becoming better than our Parents, 2, spreading knowledge we have acquired and 3, outliving our Parents.

Thus my, what I am surprised it has not been called controversial  post about what McVeigh should've done.

Ideally it would've been in every state, and simultaneous. I know this would invoke martial law, but to make an omelet...........

But see it would show the suits that we can indeed organize and fight them, contrary to their belief that they have a lid on it because of their strict control of the media. They would see that they might just be wrong, that maybe it would be a good idea to back off a bit in their quest for absolute authority and wealth.

But instead we got the whole country casting a jaundiced eye on anyone who even mentions the Constitution.

I hope McVeigh gets really crisp in hell. I will bring the hot sauce, but I don't want any. I can get plenty of stupidity anywhere, remember I am in the US.

T



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