RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (Full Version)

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PonyGroom -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/2/2007 2:05:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Mind if I share your perch?  I agree.


Always room on the perch.

I am a dominant man in service to a dominant woman. She has a chronic disability that has worsened over the five years I have been in service.

I can tell from reading your profile that we have a lot in common. I wonder if our age and similar life experience has lead us to similar points of view?





PonyGroom -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/2/2007 2:09:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I have heard the arguments about "it's not a lifestyle" before, but my answer to that is that it is MY lifestyle, because it is how I have chosen to live my life, day in and day out, hopefully for the rest of my life.  Other people have made the same decision - so, to some extent or another, it must be a lifestyle.

As for when it starts - Holly and I started switching long before we knew what switching was, or anything else about BDSM or D/s ... I'd say that our lifestyle began back when we started switching.


The difficulty I have with this is that you haven't defined what "it" is. What is your lifestyle? How do you define it?

I think if you and a number of others agree on what "the bdsm lifestyle" is, we are moving toward a commonly accepted understanding of the term.





MastaMale -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/3/2007 11:27:45 PM)

Ok now I m just confused.

The apparent majority believe that this isnt a lifestyle. But then a lifestyle is defined as a style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group. And by that definition we are a lifestyle since we have attitudes and values of a group for instance SSC and RACK are common values.

but forget about that. My question still has barely been answered unless the answer is conscious intent but then those who did not have conscious intent and partcipated in BDSM activities are not part of BDSM.

hmm just a quick though would BDSM be considered a subculture? but then that would make BDSM a lifestyle.






darkinshadows -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/4/2007 2:28:28 AM)

Argh.... not SSC and RACK again...lol.
I am just going to recommend you look here -
 
 
and here -
 
 
SSC and RACK are not even uniformly accepted or agreed upon within the BDSM community - so it would be misleading to suggest they are common values.
BDSM is nothing more than an acronym.  The 'lifestyle' as you put it is soooooo diverse it would ill advised really to try and pin it down as anything other than a collection of words that people may or may not partake in on a regular basis.  Yes it is a sub culture - but a sub culture doesn't make a lifestyle it makes a culture.  There is no defineable single definition that everyone follows - as every single person tailors their desires to their particular relationship.  Your relationship with your partner will never ever be the same as mine is with my partner.  There is no specific doctrine or behaviour.  There is no laws written on stone tablets.  There is no agenda.
 
People only want a lifestyle when they feel a need and desire to belong.  In that case - make it your lifestyle.  But you cannot force it on everyone because then you are talking about non consent.
 
The one quality that most BDSMers agree on is consent.  However, consent exists within numerous 'lifestyles' or groups, so you cannot even make a claim that consent is what makes BDSM - BDSM.
 
Peace and Rapture




MastaMale -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/4/2007 3:21:38 AM)

Damn this is turning into an arguement about BDSM is a lifestyle and isnt but anyways. more info about the use of lifestyle.

The term "lifestyle" first appeared in 1939. Alvin Toffler predicted an explosion of lifestyles ("subcults") as diversity increases in post-industrial societies. Pre-modern societies did not require a term approaching sub-culture or "lifestyle", as different ways of living were expressed as entirely different cultures, religions, ethnicities or by an oppressed minority racial group. As such the minority culture was always seen as alien or other. "Lifestyles", by comparison, are accepted or partially accepted differences within the majority culture or group. This tolerance of differentiation within a majority culture seems to be associated with modernity and capitalism.

Some examples hippie lifestyle, millionair lifestyle, middle class lifestyle, playboy lifestyle, rural lifestyle, nomadic lifestyle, traditional lifestyle, and etc. The later lifestyle are just a generalized. A rural lifestyle doesnt have to be farmers. A nomadic lifestyle can be used to describe gypsies, early native americans, homeless, and etc. It can be just as diverse.


*************
back to the topic, the start of BDSM is consicous intent but then how about those who just like to use handcuffs in the bedroom every once in a while. Do they classify as BDSM?




darkinshadows -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/4/2007 3:38:29 AM)

quote:

back to the topic, the start of BDSM is consicous intent but then how about those who just like to use handcuffs in the bedroom every once in a while. Do they classify as BDSM?

Isn't that up to them?  Does it concern you if they do classify themselves as such - if you think they are not?
Becoming involved in BDSM is when you know what you are doing is part of what BDSM stands for - like you say - conscious intent - if a person choses that for themselves. So if they use handcuffs and feel that makes them BDSMers - more power to them.  If a couple never use restraints ever, yet have a power exchange where the man goes to work and the woman stays at home and thats all they do in their power exchange and they feel to them, that is Ds - then more power to them.
 
Are you trying to define when it starts for everyone?  In which case that is impossible because its all down to individuals concerned within their relationship.  It is like trying to define when life begins.  Some say it is at conception.  Some believe it is when you are 4 months in the womb.  Others - when one is born.  And some even think its 40...[;)]
 
Peace and Rapture





PonyGroom -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/4/2007 5:33:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastaMale

Damn this is turning into an arguement about BDSM is a lifestyle and isnt but anyways. more info about the use of lifestyle.

The term "lifestyle" first appeared in 1939. Alvin Toffler predicted an explosion of lifestyles ("subcults") as diversity increases in post-industrial societies. Pre-modern societies did not require a term approaching sub-culture or "lifestyle", as different ways of living were expressed as entirely different cultures, religions, ethnicities or by an oppressed minority racial group. As such the minority culture was always seen as alien or other. "Lifestyles", by comparison, are accepted or partially accepted differences within the majority culture or group. This tolerance of differentiation within a majority culture seems to be associated with modernity and capitalism.

Some examples hippie lifestyle, millionair lifestyle, middle class lifestyle, playboy lifestyle, rural lifestyle, nomadic lifestyle, traditional lifestyle, and etc. The later lifestyle are just a generalized. A rural lifestyle doesnt have to be farmers. A nomadic lifestyle can be used to describe gypsies, early native americans, homeless, and etc. It can be just as diverse.



Oh excellent! You want answers in Toffler's frame of reference. 

It is straight on point to say that there is no such thing as "the bdsm lifestyle" if we use the term as he defined it.

There are thousands of people who have more than one friendship based around a common understanding of one or more non-mainstream sexual practices.  Perhaps it would be fair to generalize and say that they have a style of life in common. But it would not be fair to say they have in common a set of values, ethic, political orientation... and this observation about the huge diversity out there has been covered in forms like this ad nauseum.

I was a hippie. I lived in a commune for a while. I was part of a tribe. We were focused on sex and music, but not drugs. Normally when you think "hippie", you think "sex, drugs and rock and roll". So we had our own version, our own subset, of what it generally meant to be a hippie. Our tribe numbered about 125. We shared some values, some time together, some wine, some naked dancing, and a lot of anti-establishment fervor. We lived a lifestyle, even though it might be fair to say there were as many differences as there were similarities among us.

In the same sense, today, there are dozens of lifestyles that might use the term bdsm to describe themselves in whole or in part. Many of these are incompatible with each other. For example, the men who participate in Ladies Tea Society type meetings are not usually going to be found on the handle side of a flogger, but even that has it's exceptions. If you got your question out there to a wide enough audience, you would find a huge number who are focused on spanking, but not so much any other form of pain play, and if you asked them if they practice "the bdsm lifestyle", they wouldn't know what you are talking about. They spank. If you asked them if they practice "the spanking lifestyle", they would try to define a subset of behaviors perhaps, and then you might be able to communicate with them.

Did Toffler try to predict this kind of subsetting and fragmentation?  I can't remember, it has been too long since I read his work.

Instead of using Toffler's lense, try Ted Nelson: "everything is deeply intertwingled". The "intertwingled" concept is very helpful in understanding what is really going on sociologically.






MastaMale -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/5/2007 12:10:49 AM)

Why did I ask this question? The reason was because I was wondering how did people determine how many years of experience they have and how long they have been doing it.  In order to time something there must be a start. Apparently people determine there start of BDSM differently, on here people believe its consious intent, on others it was being aroused, part taking a household, doing the BDSM activities, and etc. So I was looking for opinions here.


Now as for the lifestyle debate, I m getting tired of it. It seems like one of those arguements where it will never be resolved but nonetheless gotta still try.

By your definition of Lifestyle any small varitation doesnt classify as a lifestyle. Apparently by your arguement there is no such thing as a lifestyle at all. Even though groups of people have similarities just because they have one difference doesnt not qualify them for a lifestyle then. But then why have the classification BDSM then or to the further extreme, generalizing groups then?








PonyGroom -> RE: When is the Start of the BDSM lifestyle? (4/5/2007 5:34:54 AM)

Now that you have said why you asked the original question it is easier to address. Many people experience a progression of epiphanies, often beginning in their teenage years. However, it is common practice to report only what happened after 18, because of legal concerns and misunderstandings about consent. Also, many date things from the point of concious awareness rather than actual practice. I think you have your answer to the intent of your original question, yes?

The classification term "BDSM" is something I think is inappropriate, unfortunate, and confusing. It hinders communication instead of helping. You could research how the term came about, I don't think you want me to put all that into a reply here.

Just one example of a common lifestyle: the "Munch and Party" folks. They go to a dinner meeting at a restaurant and then afterwards, by invitation only, to someone's home for a party. At the party, they usually do some SM: waxing, flogging, cupping, paddles, etc. A lot of these people say they "do BDSM" or "are in the lifestyle".

A number of people have asked me about "the pony lifestyle". I tell them there is no such thing. Over the last ten years I have communicated with at least 200 ponies, trainers, owners, photographers, and handlers, one on one. There is no single lifestyle among us. Some of us meet to play on a somewhat regular basis, but we are small in number compared to the number who practice some aspect of the fetish. 

It is easier to understand what is going on in the kink world by looking at it through a "fetish lense" similar to that documented in Different Loving. That transforms your question into "when did you first know you had your primary fetish?" or something similar.




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