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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 3:25:00 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


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From: Upstate, NY
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quote:

I am curious to hear other people’s opinions on how they feel valuable.  Where does your value of self and your value in your relationships come from?



  Interesting discussion.


  I've been fortunate in that my value in my eyes is independent to my relationship status, or other's perception of me.


  I've always had a strong sense of worth and value because I have always believed the characteristics and attributes that make a person valuable and good are ones that I possess.


  I guess I am pretty simple in that is how associate value to someone. There isn't much more I am interested in when it comes to people than what is in their core. It doesn't matter what's on the outside, whether they are rich or poor or whatever. Whatever is what is a person's heart and core is what defines them to me.  

I have no problem being single, at least when it comes to my worth as an individual, because I know that the characteristics that I have to offer someone are desirable and will make someone ecstatically happy one day. It's is simple as that.


  I'm lucky in that I have wonderful friends and family that have helped build me and mold me into what I am. Knowing what they believe in and how they've affected me throughout my life has allowed me to see what a good person embodies and why I am who I am.

(in reply to SleeplessGypsy)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 4:24:04 PM   
darkinshadows


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I had to look back at my life to answer this beautiful question and yet it reminded me yet again that I bloody learning every second and its scarey and vital and wonderful.
 
I had always been aware of my value since the birth of my children.  I realised, when my son was born (14 years ago) that I was capable of much more than I realised and I suddenly became aware of my own 'self'.
 
I wasn't just a person.  I was a mother.  Even if I have no children, or when they grow up and leave - I am still a mother.  Not having them there makes me no less of one.  The feelings are there, the experiences remain.  The memory and the love remains.
 
My submission is like that.  I am everything and all even when I have no one to submit to.  If I lost that ability, I am still myself.  And spending time without a partner assisted in that realisation.
 
However, with recent events, sometimes it takes another to help you see what you really knew all along.
I remember sitting in a busy bar, being told that through me and knowing me, he felt able.
 
And the one thing I have been craving to do is to release the self.  Because sometimes, even if your aware of it, you don't 'do' anything with it.
 
I am not sure if this is making much sense.
 
And now I am sitting typing this, crying like a girl, because I read what he wrote this morning, written in his journal in ink, by his hand whilst we were sitting in covent garden watching someone perform circus tricks and drinking latte.  And as I read his words this morning on what he sees, I look at this post and think - wow - that is with me always.  Even if something happened tomorrow and I couldn't serve him, it's already there.  What I am exists and remains - even if I cannot be - the self - my self - remains.
 
Peace and Rapture
 




_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 4:27:05 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I had to learn to try to do this in my early twenties, and it was a long road. I was dealing with severe depression at the time, and had several episodes of it. There were many things I could do that I previously valued myself for (and that other people valued me for), that I could no longer do, or at least not do without much struggle. Things like: Get good grades, be out-going with strangers (or even friends and family), tell jokes well, and sometimes make even small decisions about things. For awhile, it played hell with my self-esteem. But my father, plus a doctor I saw at the time, taught me that my purpose in life really is just being here, and it was not necessarily my destiny, or my job, to live my life seeking others' approval.

I didn't really buy that idea until my late twenties, and spent a few years making sure everyone I knew I had graduated in the top of my class, and had a great job, and I accumulated a lot of credit cards, and bought a fabulous wardrobe, etc. I had worked so very hard to prove I was "really okay", that  it only seemed fair to me, to try to let the entire world know I was (or at least try to do that). 

Then it gradually sunk into my psyche, that I was doing these things because I felt so badly about myself, for having ever become depressed to begin with, and having to deal with it for so long (years). I stopped valuing myself for the jobs I could get, or the things I could own, and stopped trying to "prove myself" to certain people at every little turn. It helped tremendously that I had a (mostly) supportive family. It is a lesson I would not trade for anything.   

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/1/2007 4:56:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 5:24:29 PM   
azzmaster


Posts: 864
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Status: offline 		this seems more like a question female subs would ask themselves... women generally are taught to be useful. as males we are not taught so much to be useful as to compete.. i am talking about childhood programming... implicit however withing the urging of males to compete is the idea that is we try hard enuff we will triumph... as far as i am concerned i put out some good energy to society in what i do and i am loyal to friends and loved ones...so i consider myself morally sound...  if i become disabled and say can't fix my moms roof or shovel snow off her driveway it wouldn't affect my self esteem...i would be the same person

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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 5:34:14 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
I personally see very little value in property that falls into the category of companion...if it isn't generating income I don't see how it is an asset...I'm going to learn but right now I'm just trying to adjust to it. I'm told I have value just by being *me*...but I find that hard to grasp..I can't put a $$$ figure on that.



Chewsie, I saw this and wanted to comment.

Something my Master has said helped me through this one.  He has made it clear I am many things to him, not just one thing.  I am his slave, I am his whore, I am his masseuse, I am his furniture, I am his researcher, I am his companion, confidant and friend, I am his toilet, I am his sex toy, I am his play thing, I am whatever he wants me to be at any given time. I fulfill many "roles" for him at any given time ("roles" is put in quotes because these are not parts I am playing; rather different entities).  He is clear that the whole is greater than its parts.  Therefore if a part goes away, another part is introduced or enhanced.  Yet I am still the same person, the same servant, the same slave. 

As for what LA said, I can relate.  But I am learning he is in me always, by way of spirit, energy, his teachings and our connection.  He has set certain exercises up for me so that I will feel him.  But when he ceases to be, I won't have any less value.  Of the things I will struggle with, my value will not be one of them.

I never knew I had value until he taught me to look inward and see it for myself.  My value is not based on tasks, but on who and what I am, and by my will.  From his teachings, I came to know myself, love myself and value myself.  As a result I no longer let people treat me poorly or disrespect me, and I am able to go after things I previously did not think I deserved. 

I have him to thank for this. 

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 6:29:18 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

Yet when we value self in a singular sense we hear so often we are selfish, or worse yet assume it's selfish to put one's self first.  Somewhat of a loosing battle at times.   


This was something that I worked through years ago.  I learned to start saying no to people and start putting my well-being ahead of making other's happy.  I felt awful and selfish in doing that for awhile but then I noticed that in taking care of me, I had more to give to others.  Even now, as his slave my first priority is to take care of my well-being.  Nothing is more important to him than that; staying balanced and doing the things that feed me means that I have more to give to those I love.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 6:39:53 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

this seems more like a question female subs would ask themselves... women generally are taught to be useful. as males we are not taught so much to be useful as to compete..


It may be something that women ask themselves but I do know that men struggle with it as well.  A few years ago my father became disabled.  He has not been able to work and support my mom in several years.  His value in his eyes fell because he could not be the provider.  This is something that he still struggles with; he does not feel useful so does not see himself as valuable.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 6:44:44 PM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I had to learn to try to do this in my early twenties, and it was a long road. I was dealing with severe depression at the time, and had several episodes of it. There were many things I could do that I previously valued myself for (and that other people valued me for), that I could no longer do, or at least not do without much struggle. Things like: Get good grades, be out-going with strangers (or even friends and family), tell jokes well, and sometimes make even small decisions about things. For awhile, it played hell with my self-esteem. But my father, plus a doctor I saw at the time, taught me that my purpose in life really is just being here, and it was not necessarily my destiny, or my job, to live my life seeking others' approval.


Susan, I can really relate to this paragraph.  When I struggled with severe depression there were days when getting out of bed to go to the bathroom was all I could manage.  This was a time in my life where I first started learning that my value does not come from outside of me.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 7:00:39 PM   
kyraofMists


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Status: offline 		dark,

Thank you for sharing.  As I was reading your post the thought went through my mind that in order to value self you have to know self.  Throughout our lives we meet people and have experiences and they can illuminate a little bit more of that self. 

When I first met my Lord he used an anology of a store...  some people only come by and window shop, they only look at the exterior of who I am and others come inside and take time to explore a little bit more of who I am.  With him, he walked right in and went to the heart of me and shined a bright light on the parts that I protected most fiercely.  He treasured that part of me and now it can be seen in all that I do.

I have really enjoyed reading the responses; thank you to everyone who took time to post and share.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 10:07:56 PM   
alandraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I am curious to hear other people’s opinions on how they feel valuable.  Where does your value of self and your value in your relationships come from?  If you equate your value with what you do, do you lose value when you are no longer able to do those things?

Knight’s kyra


The value of self I find to be the easier of the two values being asked about here. Who I am as a person, my intelligence, humour, view on life, and life experiences are some of the things that shape how I view the value I have for myself. *ss* that is not to say that the value I see in myself is constant, there are days when I have self doubt and need to look deep within to find that value once more.  

Now the value in my relationships was harder to handle and figure out, I do not work outside of my Lord's home. I have not now for 14 years, before that I had been working for 7 years bringing in money to pay for what I wanted and needed.

The change to not earning a pay check was an easy one to make, the harder change was figuring out that it was alright to ask for money for my own wants even though I was not bring in money to the house. 

To understand that my value in His house while i was not working was not less than when I was working and bringing money into the house, it is just different. It is like the old saying, don't compare apples to oranges... there is no comparison.

I took me a while to really understand and accept that my value in the relationship was more then what I could bring in money wise or do physically. That it was by being true to my core beliefs and values as a person that I brought value to my relationships.  

Knight's alandra

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 10:09:53 PM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: azzmaster

this seems more like a question female subs would ask themselves... women generally are taught to be useful. as males we are not taught so much to be useful as to compete..


It may be something that women ask themselves but I do know that men struggle with it as well.  A few years ago my father became disabled.  He has not been able to work and support my mom in several years.  His value in his eyes fell because he could not be the provider.  This is something that he still struggles with; he does not feel useful so does not see himself as valuable.

Knight's kyra


I had a three year relationship that failed partially because of his back injury that led him to be disabled. I can tell you it majorly impacted his self esteem in many ways

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Value of Self - 4/1/2007 10:11:15 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
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Status: offline 		Dark, Please let me second the thanks. You said what I feel even.

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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 2:21:29 AM   
patina


Posts: 493
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

I'm really proud of my intelligence...and my dyslexia bothers me because I think it makes me seem less intelligent. But, I am not my intelligence. I like to think that I'd still be me even if I all of a sudden lost it. Might be a fantasy in my head, though.


I separated this out by intelligent is part of who I am and demonstrating intelligence is what I do.  In certain stressful situations, I cannot recall the words I need to express myself.  However, that does not take away from the fact that I am intelligent. 

Whether I would still be me if I lost my intelligence... that is interesting to consider.  I think I would be a different me.  My value would not change but I would just be different.

Knight's kyra


I am not sure if you will consider me of suffecient or adequate standing.  But i will give my version anyway.  As i have mentioned before i have problems with expressing myself at times.  This is due to a blood clot i had in my brain.  It caused me to have a major stroke.  I had always considered myself pretty intelligent.

Since my stroke my brain no longer works the way it should. I have problems finding the right word sometimes such as in the opening sentence.  I will say things one way when i mean to say them another way.  I feel i come across as stupid, dumb, or as a moron anymore.  I could just sit back and not interact but i refuse to do that.  I know i am still smart, I know i still have important things to say, i know that i do help others at times, so i just ignore those who say hurtful things to me as I know they do not understand,  for those i know who mean well i take their teachings to heart. 

So yes my intelligence or loss of it has changed me in some ways but I am still me I know who and what I used to be before i injured my brain.
Taking certain bi polar medications also hinders the cognitive processing of independet thinking.  I am also Dyslexia ADHD--and OCD-- add it all together i'm never boring to be around.

patina

_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 2:48:35 AM   
swtnsparkling


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quote:

What a great question!  And something I struggle with daily.  I've always taken great pride in the things I can accomplish, yet often feel drained and unfed.  To be perfectly frank lonely is a word that comes to mind.  So often life reins us into a spot where it's only action that gets rewards, the trap of that is the mind set it creates. Finding inner peace with one's self can be a process when all we know is performance gets recognition. 
God I know that must sound like I have no self esteem when actually I do.  I have many good qualities yet they seem a waste when singular.  Not that being in a relationship cures all, I'm sure it doesnt.  That peace is found within.  Yet when we value self in a singular sense we hear so often we are selfish, or worse yet assume it's selfish to put one's self first.  Somewhat of a loosing battle at times.  Geez, this is only sounding worse and worse!  I guess the bottom line of what I'm trying to say is a value of self is paramount, yet as humans we are herd animals.  With out the herd we have no point to judge the balance from. 


Wow Quivver- Loved this
I feel like it was written about me

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 12:26:32 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
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Status: offline 		Many people wrestle with this dilema, Kyra, not just submissives.  Its often a large part of post-partem depression in mothers once the children "have left the nest."  Having formed much of their identity and self value around being an active mother, when that ceases to be necessary, they have trouble letting go and finding value in themselves.  Same thing sometimes happens with career soldiers who are suddenly disabled, or professional atheletes, or a wide variety of other individuals.  We all tend to derive our self worth from what we do, from our accomplishments, and that is not an unhealthy thing.  Its a very tangible and grounded source for our self worth.  However, where people often go wrong occurs in two ways. 

First in viewing past achievements as being temporal and thus no longer valuable.  That is, the mother might focus on the fact that her children are grown and that she is no longer actively needed as she once was.  The soldier might focus on being disabled and no longer being able to actively serve as a soldier.  What is important to remind such individuals is that their past achievements are still valid.  A mother or father who raises children to adulthood has accomplished something, and that is not dimnissed by time.  A soldier who served honorably will always have that distinction.  A slave who has lost their master, or conversely a master suddenly without a slave, needs to remember their past accomplishments and that those are still valid even if circumstances have changed.

The second way in which people facing such changes in circumstance often go wrong in regards to self worth is that they find nothing new to do with themselves.  I've visited far too many "retirement" homes full of elderly individuals who sit listlessly day after day.  Some of them do nothing, not because they are unable, but because they have given up the will to seek new challenges or new accomplishments.  With no new goals to work towards, nothing to strive for, nothing to keep our minds occupied, nothing to challenge us... we all begin to decay.  It is that very striving that not only builds our self worth, but makes us feel alive.  Living is an activity... it requires us to be active.  When we cease to be active, we have begun a long and slow death, because we are no longer "living."

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 1:55:45 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent question Kyra and also many excellent responses. With the recent moves of both of my adult children (25 and 24) to locations where i can't see them as much or be with them, i struggled with the loss of that part of my life and i came to the conclusion, although i can't fill the "roles" of the mom or the grandmom like i once did, what is important is who i am as a person. i have seen, as i'm sure others of you have as well, many who so lose themselves as mothers or grandmothers or employees, etc. that they lose sight of the fact that those roles don't define who someone is as a person. Are we kind, do we show compassion, are we loyal and faithful to our words, to me those are the qualities that make up who we are and should be the basis of how we view and value ourselves and our worth.

heartfelt

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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 6:13:04 PM   
calicowgirl


Posts: 98
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline 		For so long I was "only" a wife, mother, firefighter etc that I completely lost sight of the fact that I am me even without the roles or what I can do or the skills I possess. For the most part, I  forgot I am a person with wants, needs, desires & dreams... those things have all been pretty much nonexistant for the last several years, there was just no time for them.

It comes second nature for me to care for others before myself., that has always been the way of things until these last few months and now I am dealing with the "I'm being selfish" issues someone else spoke of.  Sometimes I wonder if I will ever find out who I really am and be ok with all I find... what I have managed of the journey so far has been eye opening and I look forward to each new day.

cali

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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 6:40:01 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
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Status: offline 		Good luck on your journey cali, from your postings and your profile notes, i think you will find a wonderful person at the end of it.

heartfelt

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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 7:14:22 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

I'm really proud of my intelligence...and my dyslexia bothers me because I think it makes me seem less intelligent. But, I am not my intelligence. I like to think that I'd still be me even if I all of a sudden lost it. Might be a fantasy in my head, though.


I separated this out by intelligent is part of who I am and demonstrating intelligence is what I do.  In certain stressful situations, I cannot recall the words I need to express myself.  However, that does not take away from the fact that I am intelligent. 

Whether I would still be me if I lost my intelligence... that is interesting to consider.  I think I would be a different me.  My value would not change but I would just be different.

Knight's kyra


I am not sure if you will consider me of suffecient or adequate standing.  But i will give my version anyway.  As i have mentioned before i have problems with expressing myself at times.  This is due to a blood clot i had in my brain.  It caused me to have a major stroke.  I had always considered myself pretty intelligent.

Since my stroke my brain no longer works the way it should. I have problems finding the right word sometimes such as in the opening sentence.  I will say things one way when i mean to say them another way.  I feel i come across as stupid, dumb, or as a moron anymore.  I could just sit back and not interact but i refuse to do that.  I know i am still smart, I know i still have important things to say, i know that i do help others at times, so i just ignore those who say hurtful things to me as I know they do not understand,  for those i know who mean well i take their teachings to heart. 

So yes my intelligence or loss of it has changed me in some ways but I am still me I know who and what I used to be before i injured my brain.
Taking certain bi polar medications also hinders the cognitive processing of independet thinking.  I am also Dyslexia ADHD--and OCD-- add it all together i'm never boring to be around.

patina


Hello patina,

The curious thing about brain injuries is that people tend to use the idea that a person who has one has suffered a loss of intelligence.  I would argue that this is not the case at all.  You are still the person you were before. 

There are certain parts of the brain that do certain things.  An example I read about in an article on a severely disabled Iraq vet involved damage to a portion of the brain, and his struggles to recover.  The part of the brain he had an injury with dealt greatly with processing of language.  It was limited, but his major complaint was an inability to understand words spoken to him, inability to comprehend grammar, and inability to form sentences or express complex thoughts verbally.  It had nothing to do with intelligence.  His bicycle had a flat tire, in a sense.  This was proven during his recovery by a few of the aides responsible for helping him.  With incredible patience on their part, they were able to help him communicate to his family, and he was the same person he was before the injury.

Another problem with his recovery is that a part that is frequently temporarily messed up from brain injuries is responsible for what is known as executive function.  Executive function is the portion of the brain responsible for monitoring how much mental energy to devote to a specific task, and how many things it was trying to keep track of to put, for lack of a better word, on the back burner.  A person with damaged executive function tends to be angry, aggravated, bitter, annoyed, and easily exhausted by trivial tasks.

So this person has an insult to their brain, they wake up or whatever, and discover their brain does not work the way it did before.  They may have an obvious insult like a lack of feeling in their legs.  They may be unable to perform simple math functions or tie their shoes.  As they try to relearn it, relying on the brains "plasticity" and ability to learn, executive function loss makes it a taxing proposition.

Lets say a person has lost their ability to perform sequencing.  They have to relearn that you put the rice in the pot on the stove before turning on the heat, as opposed to turning on the heat, pouring the rice on the fire, and putting a pot on it.  Seems like a simple task, but the part of the brain which takes care of organizing things was burned out.  Referring to it as intelligence is simply ignorant and uneducated about brain function.

A common complaint from people recovering from a brain insult is the lack of support they get from people.  It is like that cheesy line from that movie where the kid gives a hot rock to a blind girl to teach her what the color red is.  Unless it happened to them, odds are fairly good they wont have the ability to understand what you are going through.

Keep your chin up.  You will get through this.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to patina)
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RE: Value of Self - 4/2/2007 7:26:03 PM   
behindmirrors


Posts: 340
Joined: 8/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I am curious to hear other people’s opinions on how they feel valuable.  Where does your value of self and your value in your relationships come from?  If you equate your value with what you do, do you lose value when you are no longer able to do those things?



Kyra, this is an excellent topic, and I've really enjoyed reading the responses. I thank you for that.

Personally, my value of self was once attached to my capabilities- until I came to the realization that what I did was an extension of who I am- and thus, if my actions and the products of those actions had worth, then it was because of my own value of self behind them.

As for value in relationships, it is my opinion that the highest relationship that can exist is between people who value themselves highly, in fact, above all others, as individuals. It is an understanding of a similar moral code. I don't think any person can convince someone who does not believe it that they have value- I think they can show them the evidence, and the person has a choice to accept it as truth or not. The person who accepts their value is the person who has declared their right to live, and to live with joy- and the person who refuses to see their value ascribes to the moral equivalent of death. Without value, what would be the point of existence? Value of self is intrinsically linked to the ability in which a person is capable of staying alive.

I think a lot of times, when people struggle with their actions and capabilities/achievements defining how they feel about themselves- and the reactions of others to those things- they are seeking validation externally that they are terrified to provide for themselves.

When they face a challenge, often one that threatens their very perceptions of self or life, they begin to look inside instead of outside for understanding and acceptance. Things may not be the same, and the achievements may be different- but they begin to reaize that they are still capable, and that worth of self is not defined externally, but internally. For perhaps the first time in their lives, they see who they are, and are no longer afraid.

Being selfish, and finding value in your self are, in my opinion, two of the most important virtues of existence as a human being. Without the self, there is no life- and in being selfish, one is able to proclaim their right to existence. Thus, the value of your self is the value you hold for life- and personally, I love to live.

behindmirrors.


(in reply to kyraofMists)
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