RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (Full Version)

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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:05:20 PM)

What about the whole part where he gets to ask questions and get clarification on expectations?



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:05:33 PM)

you are very welcome. and boy was about to commit to me just now [24 hours early] but i made it clear before he did that i think less of him b/c of natural order, and he is ok with this [;)]

edit to add, i can see how you easily went there with the info i decided to omit



MasterFireMaam -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:06:05 PM)

There is power in an agreed upon exchange, be that physical, mental or financial. It doesn't make you any less a slave or him inferior to you (in my opinion), but the role play of such can be hot. Taking from someone what they want to give, but pretend to give unwillingly, is hot, too. Just enjoy it. I'll be interested in knowing if he actually follows through.

Master Fire



MsKatHouston -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:11:16 PM)

If this situation works for all parties involved, great for you and have fun.

My only question to you is, does your motivations for doing this to him and/or his own motivations for allowing it matter to you? 

When I look at this scenario with the colored view of disagreeing with your philosophy and having experience with male subs, I think there is some potential for a train wreck.  It may also work out swimmingly. 

But, if you feel a need to justify what you are doing (not saying you are, just asking IF you are) by entering into your natural order philosophy, will that detract from your enjoyment of that if he does not also buy into that?  What if he is just looking for a way to get his kink off with you (maybe he's a fin slave, maybe he's a fem supremecist)?  Will that detract from your enjoyment of this scenario?

So, if you both, or all three, have motivations for entering into this that are at philosophical odds but it results in everyone getting what they want out of the situation, will you all be ok with that?  If so, great.  If not, there may be a problem.  Good luck with this. :)



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:14:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Hiya mixie,
The question is similar to how would you feel as a crack dealer? Are you prepared to learn about the things he may need to do, the lengths he may need to go, to appease you? If this isn't strictly a financially motivated transaction, why require tribute? And can you trust this man to be capable of keeping the boundaries clear between acceptable and unacceptable behavior?


well, the tribute factor comes into play upon his own suggestion. it began with him wanting to buy me dresses[the original proposition]. he was willing to just shop [online - via D's request] for me, but asked if after he proved his worthiness, time after time, could we move it to real time pampering and spoiling, which is where the 2 month thing came into play. [as i ask him via IM if he has child support, or bills he will be ignoring, lol he replies, "no, just a night at the bar it will cost me"]

and if he starts showing unacceptable behavior, well one warning ... then i will dismiss him if repeat offender.



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:19:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston



But, if you feel a need to justify what you are doing (not saying you are, just asking IF you are) by entering into your natural order philosophy, will that detract from your enjoyment of that if he does not also buy into that? What if he is just looking for a way to get his kink off with you (maybe he's a fin slave, maybe he's a fem supremecist)? Will that detract from your enjoyment of this scenario?


i know that he does not believe in natural order like i do. he also knows i believe him to be less than me because he is shedding his natural right as a dominant male.




mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:21:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

What about the whole part where he gets to ask questions and get clarification on expectations?

yes this def took place for most of the day yesterday, lol



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:25:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

There is power in an agreed upon exchange, be that physical, mental or financial. It doesn't make you any less a slave or him inferior to you (in my opinion), but the role play of such can be hot. Taking from someone what they want to give, but pretend to give unwillingly, is hot, too. Just enjoy it. I'll be interested in knowing if he actually follows through.

Master Fire


me too and i will be sure to keep you posted, MFM



MsKatHouston -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:26:22 PM)

Then it seems to me like everyone has comunicated and everyone has agreed to the situation.  Have a wonderful time with it.

But another question occurred to me...if this is the first time you are doing this do you think it is possible that you will enjoy it a little too much?  Perhaps though you have no intention of going all domly on his ass, maybe you'll get caught up? lol...If so, will that affect your core relationship? 

Just some things to think about but if this is a short time period trial sort of thing, even if it doesn't work out it may be a great experience for you and you may learn a lot.  Again, enjoy :)



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 12:49:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsKatHouston

Then it seems to me like everyone has comunicated and everyone has agreed to the situation. Have a wonderful time with it.

But another question occurred to me...if this is the first time you are doing this do you think it is possible that you will enjoy it a little too much? Perhaps though you have no intention of going all domly on his ass, maybe you'll get caught up? lol...If so, will that affect your core relationship?

Just some things to think about but if this is a short time period trial sort of thing, even if it doesn't work out it may be a great experience for you and you may learn a lot. Again, enjoy :)

WELL i would like to hope this would NOT happen, but if it were too, obviously then it is in there and should come out, dont you think? in the long run if i DID have Domme tendencies which were never identified, wouldnt this make my relationship worse also?

i can see what you mean [yea pony i see now that she had the same point, LOL didnt see this post before] BUT if it is within me i dont see the harm of recognizing it. it would not change the fact that i desire ONLY to submit to D and ONLY D as His slave. you should see the way i squirm when He asks me to grab His neck tightly.

but i do not plan on going down a road that would expose Domme tendencies, although an alpha slave can easily parallel this as i can see.... my place is at D's feet and forever will be.. How i entertain myself from now until forever .... well i dont see the harm in having some fun!



Lashra -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 1:31:45 PM)

I am a Domme and I know you said you didnt want our opinions but this is an open board forum so here goes. I do not believe in the natural order and have proven it false many times over. But I do respect people who do as long as they respect my belief and no this isnt a flame this is my opinion on the situation. Anyone who flames me will be ignored as usual. Now with that out of the way let me continue onward.

The first red flag is you call this man "pathetic" is he truly pathetic, or only so because he is submissive? If that is so do you consider ALL submissives/slaves to be pathetic or just the male ones? Do you respect him as a human being or just see him as a walking ATM? If he is going to be a "fellow slave" and your his superior that gives you control over him, does that make you still a slave?
You use the word "exploit" are you now a Prosubmissive like so many Pro Dom/mes who accept tribute?

I personally find the situation distasteful but everyone has their own thing. If you wish to use this man and degrade him as a human being then so be it. Just remember what goes around, comes around. You yourself maybe taken for such a ride one day.

Good Luck,
~Lashra



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 1:38:47 PM)

I think there's still a little too much shiny brightness and things going too far too fast, mixed with more than a touch of rationalization.

But as long as everyone is informed and happy, go for it.



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 1:41:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I am a Domme and I know you said you didnt want our opinions but this is an open board forum so here goes.

"and for the sake of mindset in regards to opinion, i ask that people who believe in Natural Order [dominant man submissive woman] to please reply. not that Domme women cant reply, but it will change the context."

quote:


The first red flag is you call this man "pathetic" is he truly pathetic, or only so because he is submissive? If that is so do you consider ALL submissives/slaves to be pathetic or just the male ones?

i will not deny the fact that i do look down on male submission, as is my right to. i do not look down on him as a person and when i use the word pathetic is in regards to his status. it is my right to believe women belong at the feet of men and the men who dismiss this privelage are in fact pathetic even if their personality is 100% awesome. it is just my belief system.

quote:


Do you respect him as a human being or just see him as a walking ATM?

no of course not, these are HIS ideas which were ammended to fit MY needs. the spending is only required for a short amount of time and is not expected long term

quote:

If he is going to be a "fellow slave" and your his superior that gives you control over him, does that make you still a slave?


you obviously have not had an encounter within a household where there are multiple slaves and there is an obvious seasoned alpha slave. think the girls next door and Holly, the favored playmate.

quote:

You use the word "exploit" are you now a Prosubmissive like so many Pro Dom/mes who accept tribute?

you must have missed the part where we move beyond tribute. am i supposed to take him on his word? i dont think so.

quote:


I personally find the situation distasteful but everyone has their own thing. If you wish to use this man and degrade him as a human being then so be it. Just remember what goes around, comes around. You yourself maybe taken for such a ride one day.



what if its his turn for the ride?



mixielicous -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 1:47:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think there's still a little too much shiny brightness and things going too far too fast, mixed with more than a touch of rationalization.

But as long as everyone is informed and happy, go for it.

i move quickly, what can i say?

i was collared after just under two months of "exploring"

some people have the ability to move more quickly. i will admit i was confused in the beginning but i have had a strong realization about my place, his place, and my place in permanent relation to my Master.



FukinTroll -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 3:05:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous

ok this may be hard to explain

and for the sake of mindset in regards to opinion, i ask that people who believe in Natural Order [dominant man submissive woman] to please reply. not that Domme women cant reply, but it will change the context.



Once again I find it interesting that the universe made two separate species that have the freakish ability to breed.
 
I do not buy in to "the natural order" concept. When we remove physical prowess from the equation what is left?
 
There is no equality in the sexes; we look at, approach, blah blah blah, everything backwards from each other. I see rock'n body you see rock'n mind, to avoid the list of a zillion examples I will just resign myself to the thought you get it all ready.
 
Now as much as the word pisses people off in this forum and a big chunk of the world it is about "superiority" and deferment. I will happily concede to one who has superior knowledge, talent or ability to my own. Rather than squirm through 30 PC words I happily say superior. We recently had a thread about "wood" and I shot SimplyMichael a C-mail because his knowledge is superior to mine and I defer to him because of that. The OP deserved an inform opinion and SimplyMichael was the light bulb that went off over my head. We had a thread about Gas Masks and ~stef was my nightclub. As for digging up fact base data for real life information about events, toys, etc... I will always use ~stef as my light bulb because the girl knows her stuff! At any point that any member shows me that they have superior skill, knowledge, talent, or ability they go into my light bulb box. The sex of the person doesn't mean diddly, it is who they are and what they know.
 
Now in a relationship I am dominant and will always hold the dominance in the relationship. That does not mean I subscribe to the Natural Order concept, I just identify with my self for what it is. Whatever skill, talent, or ability that my /s has that is superior to mine earns her the mantel of that task.



DominaSmartass -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/2/2007 7:59:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kindandcruel

What I see in your writing is not the question of owning or justification of having a male sub/slve it is the psychological delimma of your basic belief system of the natural order of things... which I agree with totally. I have proven that even the most aggressive and self proclaimed women have a underlying requirement in their makeup to be submissive to a man...

The question needs to be asked: Why is the Natural way of things such that men on the most part are the Dominant of the species rather than the women or even a cross-section of both. In my 30 years of research into psychology... combining with many advanced papers in brain research, theology, alternative science... yadda yadda.... There is a very distinct difference in both how the brain operates as well as the basic genetic make up between men and women.


I'm really academically minded and would love to read this research. Is it published somewhere?

quote:


My advice is to spend a lot of time talking to your Master and don't follow the advice on these boards... The advice on these boards are from people that usually live on these boards throwing out their opinion (which is fine) but there is little to nothing to back it up other than their own ego....\


Hmm...wouldn't this be you just telling her to ignore your advice?



starshineowned -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/3/2007 8:09:08 AM)

Greetings..~smiles~

Took awhile just to get past the "uhm" stage.

While I believe in the natural order of M/w..I will reinterate again that I also believe this is not the only natural order, and that all have to find their place. Natural does not mean to me nor has it ever meant there has to be just One for all.

In a personal sense..a person does not deserve to be unfairly taken advantage of. This doesn't seem to be the issue here as you have wrote it, and as long as all involved understand and the rules are clear..no harm no foul.

On this issue as a slave who believes in the natural order of M/w..I could not ever see myself being able to internally process being lofted to such a position as "superior slave" were it over or in context to a male or female. It would eat at my core, and is a direct contradiction of the very essence of me.

This situation does not resemble to me in any fashion the type of setup that is commonly understood (by me) as a alpha, beta, etc. slave system.

No flames here..just wondering down the road as this continues..where it will leave you within yourself.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



LotusSong -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/3/2007 8:28:50 AM)

mixie:
 
I'm going t offer you a few things to think about: 
 
Just re-read your OP here.  Put yourself in the submissive's place.  How would you feel?
 
On the other hand.. do you really want to play into the game of a guy trying to un-sub one from another?  He has invited himself into your relationship with your master.  I'm sure you master will be encouraging for you to humiliate and use this man.
 
Or.. do you secretly hold disdain for any male that  wishes to be submissive?
 
What is your motive?



ownedgirlie -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/3/2007 8:36:45 AM)

I am in a somewhat similar but different situation, mixie.  My Master and I have met a male submissive cuckold who would very much like to serve us both.  After some initial intense conversations, Master decided we could proceed on a trial basis, which the "boy" happily agreed to.  Our ranking is Master, me, the boy, in that order.  I am never to forget my place at my Master's feet, and the boy knows Master is the ultimate authority in this dynamic.

The boy gets off on doing things for me.  He comes and cleans my home and rubs my feet and is thrilled to know my desire is for the one above him - my Master.  However, this is a lesson for me in providing direction to another, and aside from providing me some well needed help, Master's goal here is to teach me to direct another and to accept what another desires to give me.  It is part of his bigger plan of preparing me for a later time in my life.

I am not feeling this power you spoke of at all, in fact it is a bit awkward for me to develop this new skill.  I will never be a Domme but I do direct the boy under my Master's tutelage. 

What I wanted to share though, as you speak of enjoying this power and exploiting the boy, is for me, this is a gift from my Master.  I am not to get too full of myself here.  The gift can go away at any time.  As I request things of the boy, my gratitude is to my Master for providing me this.  I would suggest you not forget where your good fortune comes from, and remain humble in your Master's eyes.  It is one thing to enjoy the services of another, but I must admit I see a bit of ego in your posts that could come back and bite you later if you are not careful.  I suggest you pay careful attention to this, mixie, as it can be detrimental in the long run.

Feel free to email me on the other side if you wish to talk further.



masterdstar -> RE: natural order and male slaves pampering owned females (4/3/2007 8:46:02 PM)

Well I’m sorry but it seems to Me that in more than one way you are actively going against what you claim to believe in; The Natural Order of Things.
IMO if you were “helping” this sad male thing be of use to/for your Owner then I could understand.
That in fact would be serving your Owner which is all and everything that underlies TNO
Now of course your Owner can direct you to any service He choose however seems to Me this is for your pleasure basically?
I feel there are issues at play here you are not being fully (for want of a better word “honest”.) with your self, but of course that is for your Owner to decide.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day



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