How much time do you need? (Full Version)

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Manawyddan -> How much time do you need? (4/16/2005 7:23:13 AM)

I'm not expecting a real solution here, just whining. Maybe something productive will come of it, and if not, at least I'll have blown off steam.

I am currently engaged to a woman with whom I have an, at this point, fairly nonsexual relationship. We have done bdsm in the past and enjoyed it, although our needs in that area are generally incompatible and we have ceased being really sexual for other, unrelated reasons. This relationship is difficult, but we love each other and are new parents to an infant whom we are completely devoted to.

We are poly. I maintain a girlfriend who, unfortunately, lives some distance away. because of that (and because of RL interference), we see each other maybe every one to two months. She and I do a lot of painplay and bdsm-related sex. She has a Master who lives in another state, whom she actually gets to see more than she does me, so we are really each other's secondary relationship.

I realise right here, I am a lot luckier than many folks in the scene. However ...

... after years of identifying as a top, I have become interested in being a dom. This puts me in a quandry.

My fiancee absolutely is not interested in subbing in the fashion that I'm interested in. It's come up in conversation and is simply not an option.

My girlfriend has some interest, but minimal. I could probably prompt her to more, but I have no feeling of 'authority' over her as she has a primary alliegance to this other fellow.

So ...

... do I find a third partner? My fiancee would have no problems with my doing so. But how often would I get the chance to see her? Three times a year? Would I even be able to maintain a feeling a dominance and submission with that sort of gap? I suspect at this point that if I did separate from my fiancee (almost unimaginable now), I probably would look for a Master/slave dynamic.

Maybe I should just stick to cybersex for this sort of thing ....



SecretDomme -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/16/2005 8:09:12 AM)

First of all, I would like to say that I am not poly, so I am not aware of all of the dynamics that go into forming and maintaining a relationship of that nature. Your situation sounds very complicated to me, and I really can't get past the fact that you stated that you have a new baby with your fiancee. I would say that you need to dedicate your time to raising your baby, and not worry so much about finding a new partner, at this time.

However, if you decide to seek someone new, is there no opportunity to find someone local to you? Why would you only be able to see that person a few times a year?

Be well,
Julie



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/16/2005 9:05:16 AM)

How often you get to see her depends on how often you want to and how close you are. If she's in the same town you can see her every week.

I'd say get everyone together and talk about how you are feeling, what it means, what you want to try. They need to know where you're going because they are an integral part of your lives as you are to theirs.

I'm curious why you stay with the fiance? Is it so you always have that home base to go to or is it because you really do love and want her forever, you just aren't compatible ds wise?



lil1v -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/16/2005 11:05:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manawyddan

... do I find a third partner? My fiancee would have no problems with my doing so. But how often would I get the chance to see her? Three times a year? Would I even be able to maintain a feeling a dominance and submission with that sort of gap? I suspect at this point that if I did separate from my fiancee (almost unimaginable now), I probably would look for a Master/slave dynamic.

Maybe I should just stick to cybersex for this sort of thing ....


Why keep the second? And add on a third?

Why are you getting married anyway?

And you're probably right about the "how often would I get to see her" .. unless you're fiance allowed her to live with you. Which might be an option?

If this is really a need for you.. cybersex is never going to satisfy it. You're always going to crave more and more, evenutally you'll end up resenting your wife for limiting you or denying you the relationship you so much desire.

Just things to think about..



slavedesires -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/16/2005 1:28:44 PM)

oh my.....

i thought decsions on what came first...the dishes or cleaning the tub was difficult..... LOL



sfogarty -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/17/2005 3:14:36 AM)

I would look for someone local. Time will be a severe constraint, but you do not need to be someone's dom 24/7 for it to be real. Dominance, IME, can be very real, very strong, and still ephemeral. You may not get everything you want, but you might get enough to satisfy your needs.



Manawyddan -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/19/2005 6:11:59 AM)

SecretDomme: I have been having these thoughts for several months, it's just that now I got around to posting it. You are absolutely right that right now my main priority is in taking care of the baby! Every other endeavor falls by the wayside at this life-stage (which is another reason I have not seen the girlfriend lately). However it's certainly clear to me that any third partner would have to be local. Two years ago I lived about a mile from my girlfriend ... at the time, her kids lived with her, so we almost never got to play (we actually play more often now), but ... I would trade the quantity of play in an instant for being able to see her as often as I used to.

EmeraldSlave: even aside from having a shared child, there are spiritual and emotional things I get from my relationship with the fiancee that go beyond whatever sexual disfunctions we may have. We are each other's partners for life 'til death to us part.

lil1v: I've been seeing the girlfriend for five years now. I'm not going to dump her. She is an ocean of emotional solace for me at times I need it.

My fiancee and I have five cats (counting the ones who come in every night ... there are more we call 'ours' but there are a few lost or gone feral). We go through an immense amount of trouble to ensure that none of them get too jealous of each other or the baby, and that all of them feel loved. It is completely foreign to me, to neglect my current relationships for someone new.

I suppose a large part of my original question I was unclear about. If you were seeing someone in my position ... how much time would you need from me? I can't imagine having a real Dom/sub relationship with a tertiary person given the time constraints I am under (well, right now the time constraints are 100% because the child is a newborn, but they won't always be so). Yet it's something I've been craving.



resademilo -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/19/2005 12:20:23 PM)

To answer the title question "how much time do you need" i am not answer for me but for the case of any NEW relationship. From what you are saying you care about the emotional connections of those in your life. I doubt this would be different for a third person. Right now with a newborn and several critical years of infancy and childhood (the years that lay the ground work for who a person is later on in life) I can honestly say, more time is needed in a New relationship then you currently have.

Why all relationships need time unless a person's idea of time is going down a checklist and if it all matches then it's officially a relationship. Otherwise people have to get to know each other not just those kinks and have to mesh on more levels then sex. There are plenty people who are very caring and understanding of emotions and very few of them can do sex without the emotional linkage. Emotions and trust take a lot of time and that in itself is the premise of why i say more then you have.

It's not meant as a shot at you and it's mean in all helpful honestly. The future probably will allow for that time but that's the future.



gretchen -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/19/2005 10:29:00 PM)

All about "poly" sounds pretty confusing to me, specially when words like "distance" and "cybersex" are involved...It's hard for me to believe that you can give the same amount of time, caring and energy to two (and maybe three?) girls at the same time, in diferent interaction platforms.

But I was just wondering here...Wouldn't you feel luckier if you had one submissive/slave who shares your same kinks, same interests, same mind and lives right on the corner of your street?. Maybe you should focus in one first.



Manawyddan -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/28/2005 10:05:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gretchen

All about "poly" sounds pretty confusing to me, specially when words like "distance" and "cybersex" are involved...It's hard for me to believe that you can give the same amount of time, caring and energy to two (and maybe three?) girls at the same time, in diferent interaction platforms.


I don't. One is my fiancee and the mother of my child. The other is my girlfriend. The latter knows the former has primacy. For her part, my girlfriend also has a Master and I understand that there are times when I am free to spend a weekend with her, but he has first dibs. It's disappointing to me but not something to get upset about (though I was upset that she took a trip with him during Passover and didn't attend my fiancee's and my seder).

quote:

But I was just wondering here...Wouldn't you feel luckier if you had one submissive/slave who shares your same kinks, same interests, same mind and lives right on the corner of your street?. Maybe you should focus in one first.


I think what I should focus on first is being a good father to my baby daughter. Secondary, on being a good husband. Tertiary, on being a good boyfriend.



stormsfate -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/29/2005 11:17:06 AM)

The time needed will depend on the person. If you find someone who *has* a primary relationship already, or who has other pursuits that take up a great deal of time, you will probably be happier than if you met someone who wanted to build their life around you.


best regards,
fate




TiffanySD -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/29/2005 11:58:10 AM)

As an outside observer it seems to me that your asking the wrong question. surely you realize that "Mother of your child" is a physical thing and requires not a single drop of commitment, emotional contentment or other of the thousand things a satisfying relationship is about. You don't consider yourself to be the Dom in your current situation, do you? I would also suggest the assumption that what you need in your life is yet another unfulfilling realationship is sophmoric at best. Numerous relationships that do no fulfill even the basic needs every person has do not add up to ONE complete relationship. That may work when your talking about math IE: sum- total of all parts, but that does not work with our personal relationships, as you have found out. Why not look for ONE good fulfilling relationship where you can be the person you profess a desire to be. You may find out you no longer need such a complicated matrix of relationships in your life. As to the fact that this has been a long term situation and so it will always be. There is nothing better then making a change later then never doing it. Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of your life. Rethink your situation and do a bit of honest review of what you have.



chainedgirl -> RE: How much time do you need? (4/29/2005 3:07:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manawyddan

I think what I should focus on first is being a good father to my baby daughter. Secondary, on being a good husband. Tertiary, on being a good boyfriend.



Wrong order. The first focus should be on being a good husband. Because if you and your partner are happy together and each in yourselves, then children are happy. They feel they are in a safe environment. The children should always come second to the parental relationship.

It sounds very much to me like you love your fiancee but are not _inlove_ with her and are only going through with the marriage for the baby. Such reasons are always a cop out. Everyone has basic needs that have to be met in a relationship whether mono or poly, or it just doesn't work. You have needs for sex and Domination. Yet these are not being met in your primary relationship and only just in your secondary. And you want to stay in this situation and add a third to the mix. Sorry if this is harsh, but it sounds like you don't have control over your own life, that you aren't able to make the hard decisions (cats going feral is due to neglect. allowing them to is lack of control) and making hard decisions is important for a Dom/me to be able to do. What if your sub challenged you? Would you be able to punish them? Would you be able to pull them into line? i have challenged Master on many occasions but its because i need to know He is in control that He won't take that from me, then i feel secure. Sorry, but i think this could be an issue for you.

Before taking on anyone else - be they person or cat - i suggest you take a long, hard look at yourself, your life and your motives. It sounds a lot like house cleaning is required. And never, never use a child to stay in an unhappy relationship.



Manawyddan -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/4/2005 6:51:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainedgirl
Wrong order. The first focus should be on being a good husband. Because if you and your partner are happy together and each in yourselves, then children are happy. They feel they are in a safe environment. The children should always come second to the parental relationship.


I actually consider being a good husband part and parcel of being a good father, for the reasons you state. My fiancee and I have been together for eight years prior to the birth of the child. We do have a tumultuous relationship but there's enormous love there, too. And one of our priorities as a couple is to make the relationship less tumultuous both for our own sanity and for the sake of modelling for our child.

quote:

You have needs for sex and Domination. Yet these are not being met in your primary relationship and only just in your secondary. And you want to stay in this situation and add a third to the mix.


If the need for Domination were a longstanding issue, I'd never have gotten involved in this relationship in the first place (and probably would have structured my relationship with my girlfriend differently; I knew her before her Master and while I didn't introduce them I was the cause of their meeting). It's actually a very current interest which I'm not trying to fit into an existing lifestyle with two women I love ... but I acknowledge in the first post that it may not be possible.

quote:

cats going feral is due to neglect. allowing them to is lack of control


Of our eight cats, one is a domestic cat and from a shelter, and another is a domestic stray. All the others are feral captures. Of those, two of them socialised very well, and three of them not so well. There's a limit to how much wildness you can take out of wild animals.

quote:

What if your sub challenged you? Would you be able to punish them? Would you be able to pull them into line? i have challenged Master on many occasions but its because i need to know He is in control that He won't take that from me, then i feel secure. Sorry, but i think this could be an issue for you.


It might, it might not. The issue doesn't exist with my current relationships, because they haven't ceded that sort of authority to me in the first place.

quote:

And never, never use a child to stay in an unhappy relationship.


The relationship isn't unhappy; it's not 100% perfect, but nothing in life is.



rickskajira -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/4/2005 12:56:23 PM)

I must admit that I am not poly, but what strikes me as odd in this is that you are going to marry the woman that you are not to sexually involved in. If you are poly, then why marry her? Are you wanted to start a family? I think that's the biggest problem altogether. Why are you with the girl you want to marry? I am probably not much help but perhaps gives you something to think about.



darkinshadows -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/4/2005 2:59:44 PM)

quote:

Wrong order. The first focus should be on being a good husband. Because if you and your partner are happy together and each in yourselves, then children are happy. They feel they are in a safe environment. The children should always come second to the parental relationship.


Children come first. Period.

If you are in a relationship then the children being happy is paramount. They didn't ask to be brought into a relationship. What Demon and I have is consensual, and what we do effects their lives.

We have two children and I know without doubt that before me, children come first. If it means that the relationship disolves and I lost my husband because that was best for the children(for example, we argued, disagreed all the time etc) then it would be time to let go so that the children didn't suffer the consequence of our arguments.

Peace and Love




Manawyddan -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/7/2005 6:16:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rickskajira
I must admit that I am not poly, but what strikes me as odd in this is that you are going to marry the woman that you are not to sexually involved in. If you are poly, then why marry her? Are you wanted to start a family? I think that's the biggest problem altogether. Why are you with the girl you want to marry? I am probably not much help but perhaps gives you something to think about.


We have many connections at many levels, intellectual and spiritual. I also love her more than I've ever loved anyone else in my life, well aside from my daughter. We do still make love occasionally, just not as often as we'd like ... and right now, things are on hiatus anyway because we're co-sleeping with the infant. We were going to arrange for a friend who was staying with us for a while to take her for some nice long walks so the fiancee and I could reconnect, but the timing never worked out unfortunately.

What's amusing to me about this basic problem is that I've spent the last 10 years telling people, "I'm not a dom, I'm a top, please stop calling me sir." Oh well, people change (although at this point I'd call mysefl more a dom-wannabe than a real dom).



subrob1967 -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/17/2005 6:11:24 AM)

I am in a poly relationship, and what you're describing isn't a poly relationship, it's more of an open marriage, or a swingers lifestyle, with BDSM thrown in.

Having said that, why not find a submissive who can live in and help you with the child? You stated your fiancee doesn't mind you seeking to fufill your dominant needs, why not take it a step further and get a live in submissive?

This takes care of the lack of time issue.



diaperedbaby -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/17/2005 8:29:41 AM)

Sounds like way too much drama.
Your obligation should be to your wife and child.
May be hard, but it is the wrong time to be selfish



Manawyddan -> RE: How much time do you need? (5/17/2005 9:18:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Having said that, why not find a submissive who can live in and help you with the child? You stated your fiancee doesn't mind you seeking to fufill your dominant needs, why not take it a step further and get a live in submissive?


That's been discussed. The issue is finding someone whom both of us can actually stand to live with (and vice versa), and we're a fairly eccentric pair with anger issues and chemical sensitivities ...



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