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Question for British Members - 4/5/2007 8:19:18 PM   
caitlyn


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Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm curious how Brits feel about the conduct of the Royal Navy and especially Royal Marines, that were just released by the Iranians.
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RE: Question for British Members - 4/5/2007 9:00:08 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		Interesting question. The topic was discussed, a tad brusqely, in a New York Post column called "Where's Winston?"

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 4/5/2007 9:01:36 PM >

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/5/2007 9:16:32 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Interesting question. The topic was discussed, a tad brusqely, in a New York Post column called "Where's Winston?"



     "Brusque" is a very polite choice of word, DC.  I have no idea what the British rules of engagement were, much less the Code of Conduct for POW's.  I'm giving these people full benefit of the doubt.

     And when it comes to torture, anyone can be broken and forced to 'confess.'  John McCain did, and he might wind up President yet.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/5/2007 9:20:56 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

"Brusque" is a very polite choice of word, DC.


I'm a polite guy. Plus ironic understatement seemed fitting for a British-themed thread.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/5/2007 9:22:25 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I'm giving these people full benefit of the doubt.


I am too. I just thought the column was, well, interesting.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 2:06:58 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I'm curious how Brits feel about the conduct of the Royal Navy and especially Royal Marines, that were just released by the Iranians.


You're captive so say everything your enemy wants you to say, why make life difficult for yourself and pretend to be a hero? It is not like they were protecting secrets or giving information that would endanger their comrades lives. Everyone knew what they were doing and no one really thought they meant what they said.

As for their capture. I think that their commanders have fucked up, sending out such lightly armed inflatables so close to Iranian waters. As it has been pointed out, if they fought, there would be fifteen British dead, they were so out gunned. There will be plenty of other days to be heroes. It is pointless being macho when there is no cost to your enemy and every cost to yourself.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/6/2007 2:10:57 AM >

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 3:02:49 AM   
m0rgan


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Status: offline 		when one is playing taunting and inflammatory games, trying to threaten or scare, you can't bitch if the other side takes an action you didn't calculate for. they done wrong, they got arrested, they got released. many people barely peripherally involved in this dance with destruction have been kidnapped by the self termed "good guys" from all over the world and held for years in chains, they have not been released!!

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 4:19:38 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m0rgan

when one is playing taunting and inflammatory games, trying to threaten or scare, you can't bitch if the other side takes an action you didn't calculate for. they done wrong, they got arrested, they got released. many people barely peripherally involved in this dance with destruction have been kidnapped by the self termed "good guys" from all over the world and held for years in chains, they have not been released!!


I'm not sure what you are talking about. The British were on a routine patrol against smugglers, the Iranians wanted a bit of propaganda. While it was all a petty drama that could have got out of hand, it was no big deal as long as no one over reacted. This will be forgotten in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately the soldiers that died in Basra yesterday will also be forgotten.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 4:26:41 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Reply to the member who posted the OP: what conduct are you talking about?

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not really! the brits were taking part in exercises - 4/6/2007 4:49:22 AM   
m0rgan


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Status: offline 		in disputed territory, and trying to intimidate iran, as part of the skirmishing going on that is trying to provoke any action that the american/israeli forces can use as another excuse to bomb the shit out of another country. we have no authority there, we are invaders and occupiers, and still itching for trouble and doing our best to provoke it. it ain't our land, it ain't our sea, it ain't our jurisdiction, serves us right and we have egg on our faces again. it is, however, our fault for thrusting our faces in the omelette!!

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RE: not really! the brits were taking part in exercises - 4/6/2007 6:11:22 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Those captured did a very good job whilst in custody.

Those who sent them out into such an area of sea so vulnerable to capture or attack without sufficient back up to protect them, are the ones about whom questions should be asked. Though I expect them all to be Admirals by the end of the week.

E

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 6:45:39 AM   
caitlyn


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Status: offline 		I saw an interview with a highly decorated Royal Marine, that said there is a good reason for name, rank and serial number, and wondered what these young people were being taught in the Royal Marines. He thought the laughing and joking with the Iranians by some of them, was a courts martial offense.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 6:51:18 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		We are not at war with Iran - not this week anyway, so they are not POWs, so those standards do not apply. We had a TV interview with some ranking officer over here too, who said the name rank and serial number routine is not adhered to nowadays anyway.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 7:07:11 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		Macho men are always macho until they're on the rack. Why shouldn't the captives laugh and joke with the Iranians, we aren't at war with them....yet... and hopefully we won't be. It was always obvious the Iranians were in the wrong and it would be the Iranians who would have to find the solution. Even if the Brits had strayed into Iranian waters, the most the Iranians should have done is warn them and escort them back to Iraqi waters. The real problem is that the Iranians have a multi-headed leadership and someone was obviously being over zealous. That being said, if we were in conflict with Iran it would have been another story because a lightly armed patrol wouldn't have been in that area without back up. Er...hopefully not.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 9:32:52 AM   
Dtesmoac


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I saw an interview with a highly decorated Royal Marine, that said there is a good reason for name, rank and serial number, and wondered what these young people were being taught in the Royal Marines. He thought the laughing and joking with the Iranians by some of them, was a courts martial offense.



Seemed to be natural Brit response to adverse conditions, make a joke of it and pretend it's not that serious. Only thing missing was the pot of tea. The attached article from BBC may be of interest. There is also a comments section which gives wide spectrum of view on the incident.
Britain is not in a shooting war with the Iranians. UK forces have experience of peace keeping rather than war making in many parts of the world and is used to being out gunned in many instances with a shoot as last repsort or only when fired upon mandate.
If you look at the British response in some other incdients then there is a theme of very low key non macho confrontation, for example a few years ago British Troops were captured in Sierra Leone by locals and there was a lot of negotiation and accusations of negligence etc, in that instance when the negotiaions came to nothing and there was concern that the captives were in danger the special forces that had been moved to the area enacted an assault on the camp and recovered the personnel. An assault on Iran is another matter but UK forces generally are not encouraged to go in for gung ho Holywood  macho posturing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6532361.stm

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 9:44:12 AM   
juliaoceania


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Status: offline 		The answers to this thread from our Brit friends really illustrate to me how our leadership has a "shoot first and let god sort them out" mentality.

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 9:52:15 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Tho' most of the answers presuppose that the Brits. activity really was innocent. Was it ? I dunno,  do you ?

I think the Iranians behaved like Gents. lol gave the chaps a new suit too, made in China !

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 9:54:58 AM   
Dtesmoac


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Status: offline 		Julia

I think there is a significant general difference in thinking and experience that many Americans are unaware of or ignore.

For example the way Americans talk about France...cowards...can't fight.......etc In the USA Today a few weeks ago there was an article about WWI. There was a little asside in the article with a fact that I was not aware of 1 in 3 French males between the ages of 13 and 30 dies during WWI (Great War)........... one in three.
My Father was a child in a Port on the South Coast of England during WWII - his school friends regularly disapeared due to bombing. .... And Britain had comparatively low casualties from WWII when you look at other nations involved.

The USA has no comprehension of what real war is and what real consequences of fighting one involves. It may not feel like that in the US, and it does not change the pain loss and suffering experienced during the Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts..............but it is true.

The US expects to cause death without sustaining it and without feeling any economic effects. I hope the US never ever really experiences the cost of war for survival but others have and they learnt from the experience.  

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 10:00:19 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I absolutely agree with your assessment. For example 9/11 is used as the justification to invade innocent people, kill them, occupy them. There is one region of this country that suffered greatly because of war, and that was the South, which was occupied and defeated by the North... most Americans are not related to that time period, but their families came here later or they are from another region of the country.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Question for British Members - 4/6/2007 10:02:33 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		It took a long long while to learn that lesson in Europe.
Witness the 19th/20th century conflicts  and those which go way back to into the mists of time.
Vicious bastard ruling classes.

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