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feminization of society - 4/7/2007 5:25:37 AM   
steviemichael


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline 		Is it at all possible that the feminization of society over the past 20 to 30 years is changing males, body and mind?
and if this is true which i do beieve it is  maybe one day there will be very few Male /Doms .

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 5:30:45 AM   
StellaByStarlite


Posts: 790
Joined: 2/10/2007
Status: offline 		Hello =)

Ok, you'll have to clarify "feminization of society", first... what do you mean by that?

And it doesn't seem likely that any amount of cultural change will result in the male sex organs disappearing, if that's what you mean by "bodies"


Stella

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 5:41:16 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		I'd say there have always been few male dominants... or more precisely few dominants of any gender.... but a great many pretenders.

The changes in the US over the last 50 years have had effects, probably far more than has yet been realized, and most likely a great many that were not intended.  Personally, I don't see it resulting in fewer dominant men.  If anything I think its been partly the cause of a greater interest in the lifestyle among both men and women, and as both dominants and submissives.  People are looking for direction.  With so much change to traditional values, gender roles, etc. people are seeking new values to replace them.  For some men that means a greater interest in dominant roles, while others take a submissive path, and I see the same happening with women.  Not everyone wants to be out there asserting themselves, and the great majority have always been more comfortable following as part of the pack, rather than leading.

Social changes come and go, and few of them last.  Mainly because in the end human nature always re-asserts itself.  Those inclined to lead will always lead.  Those inclined to follow will still end up following.  The same is true of dominants and submissives... they'll seek to express their own nature regardless of whatever "social engineering" is currently in vogue. 

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 5:47:21 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Some believe that we (humans)began as androgynist beings and that we are evolving back towards that. Look at how the male and females forms have changed over time.

I read a study in some scientific publication that proved that womens bodies are changing quite drastically. We used to be alot more hourglass shaped. Now the measurement differences between bust/waist/hips is becoming less and less. Our shoulders are becoming broader, our waists less small and our hips less curving.

Men are also changing in their own ways.

Those are just the obvious physical changes that were studied and written about. One has to wonder about the less obvious physiological changes that are and will continue to affect all of us.

One can question wether it is due to evolution or to the changes in our environment such as hormone laden meats and dairy products. I think it is probably a combination of both myself.


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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 5:54:30 AM   
steviemichael


Posts: 177
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Status: offline 		actually a new study has found a ‘substantial’ drop in U.S. men’s testosterone levels since the 1980s.’ The average levels of the male hormone have been dropping by an astounding 1 percent a year.

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 6:10:38 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		The feminization of U.S. society is a social myth. It's survival is dependent on laying a guilt trip on men and women to fall into line. Most like to be accepted and most attempt to conform. But it's all really silly. For some 3 million years men have been men, women have been women. Do you really think a few decades of social engineering can seriously put a dent in that truth?

I believe it is why so many people today are so conflicted. Society tells them to act one way, their natural biological nature is telling them to act in a completely different way. The two cannot exist compatibally in one person. Thus the general confusion most people have on where they belong, how they should act.

I'm not making a value judgement on whether men or women are better, just that they are different, and have been for a very long time.

LaTigresse "I read a study in some scientific publication that proved that womens bodies are changing quite drastically. We used to be alot more hourglass shaped. Now the measurement differences between bust/waist/hips is becoming less and less. Our shoulders are becoming broader, our waists less small and our hips less curving."

There is one other possibility you didn't mention. Besides evolution and hormonal changes, there is also the changing view of what makes a man/woman attractive. People try to live up to the current trend. As you say, a few decades ago, the hourglass shape was all in vogue. In the Middle Ages, a woman with very large hips was desired, as she could more easily survive giving birth. Looking back at the Stone Age figurines, what we would consider grossly overweight seemed to be desired. That last is just a surmise on my part, of course, yet all the figurines of women were the same.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 6:20:58 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		All I can say is..thank gawd I'm already born...I wouldn't want to be born much later..everybody & everything's turning feminine EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK
I also think that the feminization may have something to do with ways of living. If you look at pictures from old days everybody were somehow much more masculine, at least pretty many were..also the females. That was when you didn't have the technique that makes life easier for you, you had to work your ass off outside you didn't have machines. I'm not saying it's easier to live today but it's differently difficult, in the early days it was more physical work the illnesses were more physical. Today it's the mental part that gives in before the physical part.
Everybody's competing to be beautiful and the ideal smooth skin white teeth yaddayaddayadda is the ideal standard, and it is towards the feminine (kind of unfortunately since I prefer the masucline in men...).

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 6:24:05 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

actually a new study has found a ‘substantial’ drop in U.S. men’s testosterone levels since the 1980s.’ The average levels of the male hormone have been dropping by an astounding 1 percent a year.


Has the study offered any idea as to why this happens?

I'd guess pollution and stress myself, not any so called "feminization".

Why are we assuming that lower testosterone = bad? Maybe it just equals different.

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 6:25:32 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		The drop in testosterone could be attributed to nothing more than increasingly sedentary lifestyles.  Keep in mind that an increasingly large number of people in the US get less and less excercise, have physically less demanding lifestyles, are gaining weight, etc.  It would be illuminating to see just what cross section that study was based on, and do a comparative between men who do physically demanding labor for a living vs those who have office jobs.

In short, I'd say concerns about that should be addressed to lifestyle rather than sociology.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 6:42:11 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: steviemichael

actually a new study has found a ‘substantial’ drop in U.S. men’s testosterone levels since the 1980s.’ The average levels of the male hormone have been dropping by an astounding 1 percent a year.


If this is true it would probably be accounted for by the hormones in meat and dairy, the amounts of toxins bombarding our bodies... women have a lot of hormonal difficulties also.

I doubt highly it has anything to do with feminism... did you know there have been other cultures in our past that were based even more so on the feminine?

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 6:44:34 AM   
nighthawk3569


Posts: 283
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

The feminization of U.S. society is a social myth. It's survival is dependent on laying a guilt trip on men and women to fall into line. Most like to be accepted and most attempt to conform. But it's all really silly. For some 3 million years men have been men, women have been women. Do you really think a few decades of social engineering can seriously put a dent in that truth?

I believe it is why so many people today are so conflicted. Society tells them to act one way, their natural biological nature is telling them to act in a completely different way. The two cannot exist compatibally in one person. Thus the general confusion most people have on where they belong, how they should act.

I'm not making a value judgement on whether men or women are better, just that they are different, and have been for a very long time.      

Namaste, Sir Dominic


     Here!  Hear!  Well said, Sir Dominic! Neither men nor women are 'better', per se...just better at different things.
     My slave, for instance, performs superbly at some things that I'm not good at...so she's tasked with these things...while I do the things where I preform at my best.
 
                                                                                    'hawk

< Message edited by nighthawk3569 -- 4/7/2007 6:47:17 AM >

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 7:21:45 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		There are some recent studies that link the drop in testosterone to some common chemicals although I can't remember what they were.

Men are not becoming "feminized"...that is right wing handwringing at its worst.

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 7:21:48 AM   
steviemichael


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The feminization of U.S. society is a social myth. It's survival is dependent on laying a guilt trip on men and women to fall into line. Most like to be accepted and most attempt to conform. But it's all really silly. For some 3 million years men have been men, women have been women. Do you really think a few decades of social engineering can seriously put a dent in that truth?


i think  you would have a point  if it was proved that the 3 million years or when the hunman race started .
however  my post was not  to cause guilt  but rather read and learn other views on the subject.


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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 7:38:17 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Men are not becoming "feminized"...that is right wing handwringing at its worst.

Or left wing feminist wishful thinking

I find it all amusing.  "I am who I am... as if any of you could change that, what comedy!"  Do we not all secretly think this way.

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Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 7:43:18 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		the original premise that you derived your post from was most likely guilt ridden propaganda

Always consider the source before adhering to a theory

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 9:47:51 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		This in true in general.  There are far more sheep than herders.  Most people are happy to be sheep.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

I'd say there have always been few male dominants... or more precisely few dominants of any gender.... but a great many pretenders.



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pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 9:50:37 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I read something like that last year.  I wish I could remember where.  Soft water maybe?
If you can find that reference can you post it sometime?
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

There are some recent studies that link the drop in testosterone to some common chemicals although I can't remember what they were.



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 10:03:37 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

i think you would have a point if it was proved that the 3 million years or when the hunman race started . however my post was not to cause guilt but rather read and learn other views on the subject.


Huh???? My post was not to cause guilt either. My view on the subject is that you cannot change millions of years of biological evolution with a couple decades of social engineering. Why is that not a valid viewpoint.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 10:29:03 AM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		Could we maybe start this whole thread over again? I think it would be helpful, OP, if you want to have a good discussion on the topic of this research you mention, that perhaps you could get more specific and actually quote the research, quote the source, maybe a link to an article or the research itself so that others can get a gist of what you're really talking about, review the information for themselves and form an opinion accordingly. It feels like people are answering in a vacuum. But, just a thought.

MNN

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RE: feminization of society - 4/7/2007 10:36:29 AM   
TantricOne


Posts: 28
Joined: 6/20/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, women have become more masculine and less feminine, thanks to ERA and women's suffrage, the traditional family is also a thing of the past. Aren't too many men wearing dresses, a lot of women wearing the pants lol

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