RE: feminization of society

RE: feminization of society (Full Version)

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Hotch -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 12:48:50 PM)
Some really good points here. I especially like Padriag thinking. Enviornment could be playing a key role in this. The body adapts, and right now it's adapting to a LazyBoy, pizza and T.V. remote. The shift in the way society raises children (through the educational system), makes male traits undesirable. I'd love to see the ratio of boys prescribed Ritalin compaired to girls. But I'm confident our President is doing everything in his power to get guys off their asses and back into the action! Oh Snap! I just turned this into a political post! And for you non-American types, no offense intended by the "our President" comment. I mean, I know you're jealous and want to BE Americans, but damn it, we can't accommodate everyone! We're buildin' them fences as fast as we can (with illegal immigrant labor)!

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 1:58:50 PM)
Sounds like bad hormone injection woes to me.

sluggy67 -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 2:45:46 PM)
I believe that the media is also influencing a culture of feminization. I watch TV with the unmentionables, and I see a trend developing. The girls in the shows are always the intelligent, mature ones. The boys are portrayed as dumb, impulsive and violent. (Examples that pop to mind, Hannah Montana, That's so Raven, Scooby Doo - Fred is now an idiot, Shark Boy and Lava Girl, Spy Kids, Series of Unfortunate Events) I'm not denying that these portrayals are not impossible. I am saying that there seems to be a purposeful attempt to portray a feminine superiority, and to indoctrinate our unmentionables in this theory. In the adult media (not porn), men are always the problem. Women are the sane, rational ones. Men's natural tendencies of confrontation and competition are always deemed to be bad. A man's desire for sex is also portrayed as a negative and base desire. "Proper" resolution comes when the man realizes that he will never succeed or get better unless he talks it out, emotes, empathizes, and renounces any form of violence or competition. I've worked with the social service system, and with juvenile offenders. The goal there is always to change boys' behaviors so that they act more the way girls are supposed to act. Boys and men are supposed to feel guilty for acting like males. And we are supposed to atone for it everyday. Maybe that's why there are so many male subs. Hmm.... Instiutionalized guilt for being men?

MstrssPassion -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 2:52:00 PM)
those are all shows aimed toward children most male children aren't dealing with testosterone running through their systems at that point so why would the creators of these shows flood their characters with it? As for the adult themed entertainment... consider the gender of those who view these programs... women. Men tend to not watch many of these shows & when they do they are most likely men who are secure with their masculinity even if others view them as less than mean for watching the shows. That is what this all boils down to... a perspective that is askew to what the other person's view may be. Men are no more feminine than they have ever been & if there is a dip in testosterone, who was it that they sampled? Were these individuals a small select few? Were they persons who have taken or are taking medications? I know for a fact that many medications affect hormone levels. Was the test even taken in the context as to determine that the world's male population was losing their testosterone count? Studies can point out many things they may not have originally been testing for & you can run the same test over & over using different test individuals & get different results.

Padriag -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 6:10:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion As for the adult themed entertainment... consider the gender of those who view these programs... women. Men tend to not watch many of these shows & when they do they are most likely men who are secure with their masculinity even if others view them as less than mean for watching the shows. That's an interesting point. See I think about Scrubs and all the guys on there are basically... well.... whipped (occasionally literally) which I don't relate to so much... but on the other hand between Dr Cox's pithy lil speaches and Elliot running around in her bra (or that hot nurse out fit... oh man...) kind makes up for it. On the other hand I just don't see anyone feminizing R Lee Ernie... or Mike Rowe... or pretty much any of the guys from Deadliest Catch... or the vets on Dogfight or Shootout... or... yeah, okay, I'm such a guy. [;)]

puella -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 6:16:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TantricOne Actually, women have become more masculine and less feminine, thanks to ERA and women's suffrage, the traditional family is also a thing of the past. Aren't too many men wearing dresses, a lot of women wearing the pants lol I really do not think wearing pants or wanting to vote makes a woman less feminine. If thats all it takes to rock you out of your femininity, or your perception of femininity, it is not at all well founded, in my opinion.

Sinergy -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 6:28:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael There are some recent studies that link the drop in testosterone to some common chemicals although I can't remember what they were. Men are not becoming "feminized"...that is right wing handwringing at its worst. While I agree with the first statement, I am not sure I agree wholeheartedly with the second statement. There was an interesting article in Esquire a few months ago titled "Im worried about the boy." For millenia, there was a distinct gender differentiation built into society. Along comes suffragism, along comes World War 2 and Rosie the Riveter not wanting to go back home when the war ended. Along comes second wave feminism and the study and blurring of sexual roles among people. Women start to get role models. Women start to question, to rebel against, and to change the paradigm the exist in. In many of these situations, rightly so, the system of male/female relationships took on the appearance of an adversarial relationship. While I do not agree with it being that simplistic, many women started to inject into culture that much of the problems with their gender, the world, relationships, etc., are caused by men. So there is a backlash against being male. The father leaves the home. The male children have no male role model. The woman, in a lot of cases, trashes men and maleness. Along comes an 8 year old boy, and society begins to try to impart the guilt of millenia of sexism squarely onto the shoulders of an immature male trying to find his way to becoming a man. He was born a man. He was born with testosterone. He was born into a society that suddenly reviles testosterone. Does he learn to hate what he is? What was interesting about this article is that the author was unwilling to specifically blame any of the participants. He simply described an issue, and pointed out that a young man does not have a path to discover his masculinity. Not really sure I have a specific point in this discussion. I think the problem is vastly complex and does not really have one specific solution. Sinergy

Halley -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 6:32:38 PM)
I think that we have more freedom in today's society to have a larger variety of sexuality. It is no longer mandated that all women be feminine or all males be masculine. We live in a much more open world now. It's okay if you're a man and watch the cooking chanel. I frankly am a very feminine woman, but I doubt I would have been considered so 50 years ago. Thank goodness for more libereal times.

MstrssPassion -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 7:03:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag That's an interesting point. See I think about Scrubs and all the guys on there are basically... well.... whipped (occasionally literally) which I don't relate to so much... but on the other hand between Dr Cox's pithy lil speaches and Elliot running around in her bra (or that hot nurse out fit... oh man...) kind makes up for it. On the other hand I just don't see anyone feminizing R Lee Ernie... or Mike Rowe... or pretty much any of the guys from Deadliest Catch... or the vets on Dogfight or Shootout... or... yeah, okay, I'm such a guy. [;)] Well John McGinley (Scrubs) exudes enough testosterone & "manlyness" to make up for the wussier personas. ( I also like the bra shots of Elliot ) I also know who these other guys are you mention... does that make me such a guy too? Oops... that could put a real twist to yet another theory. (giggles in closing about the show of Mike squeezing poop from baby chickens)

thetammyjo -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 7:18:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TantricOne Actually, women have become more masculine and less feminine, thanks to ERA and women's suffrage, the traditional family is also a thing of the past. Aren't too many men wearing dresses, a lot of women wearing the pants lol There was a report on the CBS news a week or so ago I believe on the rather dramatic rise in violence in teenage girls and increases in their gang affliation not as the "bitches" but as gang bangers who do the violence as well as the boys. If one looks at certain "evidence" one could just as easily argue that it isn't that the world is becoming more feminine but that it is become more masculine. Of course all of this buys into the stereotypes of gender and allows very little room for individuality. I think that is one of the saddest things that we can do to each other and to our descendants.

TNstepsout -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 9:13:31 PM)
I do not believe that we are becoming a feminized society, I believe we are becoming a more balanced society. Across the globe (with a few exceptions) we have lived in a male dominated world for mellinium. We are at a stage where we are just beginning to grow toward a better balance between the male and female perspective. Any major change of this kind will have fits and starts and sometimes go off in odd directions as we find our way. I do believe in the long run, that balance will be better for all involved.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 9:50:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steviemichael actually a new study has found a ‘substantial’ drop in U.S. men’s testosterone levels since the 1980s.’ The average levels of the male hormone have been dropping by an astounding 1 percent a year. Yeah Yeah yeah! My gut reaction to this when I first read it, was this is BS... however... Dude went and did a google search.. Interesting link on WebMD.. http://www.webmd.com/news/20061026/study-mens-testosterone-levels-down Looks like the reason are not clear. However my Best Educated Guess and gut is telling me.. It's all the Hormones and crap in the meat we are eating now days. I have heard people talking about the early development of breasts in many Girls now days.. and speculation about it being because of meat. So I guess it would be safe to explore this as to the Drop in men's testosterone levels. Hell if I really know myself. I'm just making a Educated Guess on this one... However! This article clearly states that Other Studies needed to double check the results. These Results May Be totally BOGUS! They may not! So this Study alone is not Proof that this is really happening... I would personally not bank on this Study yet!...

WhiplashSmile -> RE: feminization of society (4/7/2007 9:54:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: steviemichael Is it at all possible that the feminization of society over the past 20 to 30 years is changing males, body and mind? and if this is true which i do beieve it is maybe one day there will be very few Male /Doms . Faulty logic in this one! Because there are Dommes who are clearly females, and they are dom. Let's say every man on the face of the earth was instantly feminization overnight. There would still be Male/Doms just as much as there are Female Dommes. LOL... This is just a little Java to help wake up your thinking some.

MstrssPassion -> RE: feminization of society (4/8/2007 7:25:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile quote: ORIGINAL: steviemichael Is it at all possible that the feminization of society over the past 20 to 30 years is changing males, body and mind? and if this is true which i do beieve it is maybe one day there will be very few Male /Doms . Faulty logic in this one! Because there are Dommes who are clearly females, and they are dom. Let's say every man on the face of the earth was instantly feminization overnight. There would still be Male/Doms just as much as there are Female Dommes. LOL... This is just a little Java to help wake up your thinking some. Thanks for the laugh.... I didn't catch this earlier & this line of reasoning is truly humorous Guess he thinks one has to be male in order to be dominant. Another flaw in this flawed theory. Not to take this off track or off topic but how many times has it been discussed that female domiants are often perceived to be more cruel & demanding than the male doms? Many people have made this statement... I'm not saying this is accurate but I have to admit I have had this very thing said personally to me... that I was much more severe than the males that they had interacted with.

Aswad -> RE: feminization of society (4/8/2007 12:11:53 PM)
First adressing the testosterone bits here... Yes, there has been a drop. No, that is not directly related to equality (my preference) or feminism. Period. However, it may very well be an indirect consequence. Women adapt their testosterone levels from generation to generation, amounting to a non-genetic inheritance (PM me rather than criticizing this point; this is already slightly off topic) based on their status in society, and as they are the only ones able to give birth, this provides a hardwired and gradual "flipswitch" between patriarchy and matriarchy. Basically, the same things that would cause a female baby to be born with raised testosterone levels would cause a male baby to be born with lowered testosterone levels, although they'll most likely catch up come puberty. However, I find it a lot more likely that there are environmental factors dominating this equation. Consider the increasing use of medications that lower dopamine levels and thus testosterone, increasing prevalence of sleep disorders, increasingly poor dietary habits, a sedentiary lifestyle, etc... Then on to the relevance to "domliness" ... *Being biologically wired for dominance is related to the development of your 5HT neurons, not testosterone. Yes, more testosterone will generally increase aggressive behaviour. It will also raise your libido. And it will help you gain and sustain muscle mass. These things are not relevant to biological dominance, although they bolster confidence in those who lack confidence in other aspects of themselves. I'm not going to turn this into a 101 on neurobiology and psychiatry, so if you need the details, PM me with a "level of detail" preference. Instead, I'll ask you to take this at face value, coming from a Dominant that has experienced an iatrogenic drop in testosterone by a full order of magnitude for two years. That is, due do doctor error, my levels dropped from above average relative to my young age, down to something that would be an abnormal finding in a 70 year old, and vaguely appropriate for feminine women. Consequence? Loss of mass, feminization of fat distribution, loss of libido with ED, and a loss of agression. Dominance traits were unaffected by this. Executive summary for men: testosterone is no more the source of your dominant nature than your penis is.*

thornhappy -> RE: feminization of society (4/8/2007 3:10:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael There are some recent studies that link the drop in testosterone to some common chemicals although I can't remember what they were. Men are not becoming "feminized"...that is right wing handwringing at its worst. Phthalates have been mentioned as a possible cause. They're used in a lot of plastics.

WhiplashSmile -> RE: feminization of society (4/8/2007 3:44:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael There are some recent studies that link the drop in testosterone to some common chemicals although I can't remember what they were. Men are not becoming "feminized"...that is right wing handwringing at its worst. Phthalates have been mentioned as a possible cause. They're used in a lot of plastics. I wonder if we can get "Myth Busters" on TV to test this one out?

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: feminization of society (4/8/2007 3:49:42 PM)
I believe males are living at home longer today then when I was a boy,this tends to lead to more mothering and smothering in some cases..WE are a product of our environment..bounty

CuriousLord -> RE: feminization of society (4/8/2007 6:10:02 PM)
Nothing you've yet said holds any water from the scientific point of view. I'm inclined to agree with the 'urban myth' take on this "feminization of society".

justinedoll -> RE: feminization of society (4/9/2007 6:03:51 AM)
Working some years as a journalist i found the media love sensations and love to accent them. Look for shocking things, and unusual. Feminization is hot topic,and feminists organizations try to be very loudly. All time there were a stron women and week men. We didnt found anything new, But maby now, we dont force to be like we except them to be. People are more free. Can express themselves. Important was the fact, the women who like be independ and powerful can be now. But it dont mean we are changing as a humans. In ancient crete Women were queens, In ancient Athens women were slaves, without will without rights, under control of father, husband or brother. In ancient Sparta, women were almost equal with men. Allowed to play in olimpic games, allowed to speak, allowed to decide who will take as a husband. And in each of those cultures people was the same. We are very fliexible.

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