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Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 6:26:39 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Hi,
I'm gonna lay it all on the table here.  I'm a 30 year old straight male virgin (yep, I'm still a virgin.  I've messed around with women, but never got "all the way.")  I really don't know much about sex outside of things I've done to myself or with 2-3 kinky female partners I've had along the way.  This is long, but if anyone can help me understand this I would really appreciate it.

I had a few friends over for drinks a couple of nights ago and had way too many (we made mixed drinks, and even though I only had two of them, each one had like 5 shots of alcohol in it so I had 10 shots total).  Then my other friend left, leaving me with a guy I've known for 4+ years.  I live in a studio apartment and I knew I was too drunk so I went over and lay down on my bed.  I puked and he helped me with the trash can and everything.

He started taking off my pants and I thought he was just trying to help me get to sleep.  Then he put his hands under my underwear and started touching me.  He asked if I liked it and I said I would if he was a girl.  But he kept on doing it and I think he put his mouth on it for a second.  I never got hard or anything (I think I was way too drunk for that even if I wasn't straight!).

The crazy thing is I knew it was wrong and I knew I didn't want it to happen.  But I still asked him to get my handcuffs and put them on me.  I don't know why I did that; I just really like to be tied up.  It was like a switch went on and I got submissve.  It's the role I know best.  He put them on me and bent me over and that's when I realized what was about to happen so I told him to stop.  He stopped and took the handcuffs off of me.

He sat down across from me and I told him that I'm straight and I just couldn't do that.  I told him that I just like to be tied up.  He said he was straight too and he apologized, and then I passed out.  I woke up a few hours later and he was gone.  I really don't think he touched me after that but I can't be sure because I was so drunk.

The next day I saw him online and he said that we were both really drunk and shouldn't drink so much again, but he never said anything about what happened.  Since then he's been sending me text messages and IMing me like everything is normal, but I've just been telling him that I'm busy with school work (I'm a grad student).  I really don't want to talk with him because it's too uncomfortable.

He shouldn't have done what he did to me, because he knows I'm straight and I thought he was too.  He has a g/f.  He knew I was really drunk too and maybe he thinks/thought I wouldn't remember it the next day.  It was wrong.  I don't know what to think though.  It's partly my fault because I encouraged him by asking to be handcuffed.  I feel really guilty about that, but it wasn't about wanting to do anything with him, it was about me just liking to be tied up.  I know I'm straight but I don't know why I didn't say no right away.  Then again the whole thing lasted probably 5 minutes total and I was so drunk I really didn't know what I was doing half the time.  To me it felt like it was just a few seconds but it had to be longer if he had time to find my handcuffs in my drawer.  Maybe I was just hoping he'd stop. 

I just know I feel really guilty for not saying no right away and for asking for the handcuffs.
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 7:00:38 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		Don't think of being straight as a yes/no thing. Think of it like mph on the car. Is 10 miles an hour driving slow? What about 30? What about 60? When does it flip from slow to fast? It doesn't, it gradually changes.

Sexually most of us are most of the way on the scale toward one end or the other. Maybe you're both 90% straight, or even 95%. But being drunk allowed both of you the chance to release the fantasies of the 5%. If you're 95% straight, then you're probably never going to try out bi-sex. Except when drunk or using other things that release normal inhibitions.

You were drunk and he was too. Whether or not he still would like to explore his bi fantasies with you is only something he knows. If he says something that makes you think he is pursuing you, then tell him thanks but no thanks. Otherwise, take this as a lesson learned. Don't drink to such a degree that you aren't in control and do dumb things.

As far as avoiding him, if you asked a woman out on a date and she told you no thanks she thought you weren't compatible, would you prefer she still be as friendly when you ran into her as before or would you feel better if she ran from the room every time she saw you?

(in reply to selfbnd411)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 7:10:00 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		stop thinking of it as right or wrong....it happened...listen your 30 years old, your body has needs....you can keep them harnessed when in full control of your faculty's but i dont think you should expect that you can control them when you are not.

one thing you have to get out of your mind, is that you were abused, he did nothing wrong and neither did you.

you could  so easily let this fester and grow into something that makes you feel worthless and victim...or you can take responsibility for the evening and every decision you made, and evaluate all the events to support the best of all possible situations. after all it did feel good, you did try something new, you did have the power to stop, you did get to feel submissive, you are now much clearer then you were before about what you sexual preference is.



< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 4/7/2007 7:15:25 PM >

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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 7:13:08 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		also try to have compassion for the other guy he is likely as confused and now maybe hurt....he is in the same boat as you, and his texes are probably more about mending fences then about getting in your pants.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 7:15:18 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		to resolve this I would first explore the reason why you feel guilt


I think it is best I leave it at this for right now... but if you care to talk this out off the boards feel free to contact me.

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MstrssPassion


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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 7:45:47 PM   
Evlgryn


Posts: 64
Joined: 9/24/2004
Status: offline 		Dude,
I'm gonna lay it all on the table here.

When you are 14 the world if full of conflicting possibilities, feints and false starts. Youthful enthusiasm can make very bad idea seem the smartest thing in the world, and a warm wind can make your dick hard.

At thirty you are what you are. Some people in almost any environment will express their sexuality with the opposite sex. Some people, even under pain of death will find their way into the arms of a person of their own sex.

Most of the world, and I suspect you...are somewhere in the middle.

There is another vector to consider...some people simply aren't as highly sexed as others, and even that isn't constant across their whole lives, but in this  I am afraid you don't find yourself in the middle deep water, the center of the bell curve.


You can only think you are a strong libidoed hetero, because you don't know what that is like.  I don't claim to be an early bloomer, but I remember being thirteen, with the perfume of the girl seated behind me in English class filling my nostrils and my head and causing my dick to strain the material of my jeans to the point of ripping. I remember loosing sight of the whole world for a moment caught in the green eyes of the girl doing the next algebra problem at the chalk  board, and the teacher sputtering and nearly having to throw water on us. I remember sweet girls and inconsiderate girls, wildly innapproprate girls and girls who had whatever it is that makes men crave them to the point of desperation.

In time I found what I thought was an appropriate and appropriately willing girl and kept her near me, put her on the back of my motorcycle and carried her with me across this country and the next. And I remember thinking how lucky I was because now I wouldn't end up in penitentiary for chasing a woman down, like a wolf runs down a deer.

Now I am older, grey streaks in my fur, and I have the luxury of choice. Age slows the reflexes and gives you the few minutes it takes to avoid the most flamboyant of stupidities and "crazy experiences".  Knowing myself I select my friends and friendly females from the kinky community, or at least kink friendly. Because I know that in a moment of passion, I am what I am. My idea of a peak pleasure experience is my teeth at the  fragrant  nape of a young womans neck, my cock nestled in her warm liquid cunny and one finger  up her tight hot ass..And the outcome will be a warm embrace, some welcome sleep and maybe some pizza. or possibly a trip to the penetentiary. The only difference  is a wise selection of partners. Whatever your thing is find someone to share it.

Contained within the preceeding paragraphs are moments of chest beating,  some insight, possibly some usable wisdom....you decide.


(in reply to MstrssPassion)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 8:07:07 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I  looked up a reference on the famous and much-respected Kinsey Report on Human Sexuality, because I was curious about what it would say. *

*Of course everyone has an opinion - But - Kinsey did an actual, long-term, ground-breaking, valid, very painstaking, study in an effort to find the truth.

**It stated that - 46% of men had "reacted" (positively) to both sexes in a sexual manner, at some point in their lives, and that 37% of all men had reported having at least one homosexual experience in their lives, at some point.

Keep in mind, that since this was published in 1948, the "taboo" heterosexual men felt about possibly feeling sexual toward another male, was so strong at that time (moreso than now, most probably) that these stats may well have under-reported that percentage (and by more than a "slim margin", too).

In any case, you are definitely not alone in your experience, nor are you "weird" for having had it.

For more of the scoop, (or at least a reasonable facsimile) check out the following site (click on "Sex Orientation" in the box labelled "Contents" on the top left side, toward the top of the page) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports

Don't worry. Everybody it seems, is on a sexuality spectrum, and it is definitely not static (no matter what people may think about that). Read the report site referenced above, and you will understand this.

**For the best explanation of homesexual-heterosexual spectrum in males acc. to Kinsey - 

1) Go to the part of that first page (it says "Kinsey Reports" at the top) an go dwon to the part labelled "See Also" (toward the bottom of the page.) Click on that.

2) Now you are of course on a new page. Travel now down toward the bottom of this page, until you reach the part labelled "Kinsey Scale"(in the middle of a lavender box) - click on that.

This is an informative page, but for clearer info on it, go to the bottom of this page, and click on the part labelled "External Links"  

3) Now you will find a clear, simple, explanantion of the part labelled: "Kinsey's Heterosexual-Homosexual Rating Scale" - Hope this is helpful to you, and others who may read this.

Anyone, IMO, who would think less of you for this experience is simply ignorant, or for whatever reason, unable to accept the study results (which have even been re-verified since originally done, as valid).
 
If you find yourself wanting to know more than is on this reference, Google Kinsey Report On Male Sexuality, (or simply, Kinsey Report on Human Sexuality) and you will find oodles of informative sites to peruse, that could make you feel more at ease with your experience.
 
 


- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 9:04:52 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Evlgryn)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:04:30 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I think you are beating yourself up over nothing. The bottom line is that touch feels good, regardless of which sex is doing it, and your body reacted to it. That's all. There is no right or wrong to any of it. What you need to do now is to figure out if you stopped it because you are "not gay", or if you stopped it because you don't want to "be gay".  In other words, was it the fear of being gay that is causing you so much worry, or was it the actual touch itself that bothers you. If you could somehow erase all the tapes that play in your head about how wrong and bad it is to be gay, was the experience itself pleasurable?

Either way I think you should let your friend off the hook. As another poster pointed out he's probably just as freaked out over the whole thing as you are. By avoiding him you are causing a rift in your friendship where there doesn't really need to be one. In the grand scheme of things a little drunken fondling is pretty harmless.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:06:21 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I concur, TNstepsout.

selfbnd411- Please don't worry. This sounds to me, like a pretty normal experience. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 9:09:01 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to TNstepsout)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:09:50 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		My gosh, according to this study, there are few who at some point don't have a feeling like this, or face a situation like this. And in this day and age, well, let's just say "times have changed" , and still are changing, for the better, as far as some people's previously held predjudices about sexuality are concerned. 

*Dr. Kinsey was such a true pioneer. There is a part of the reference I cited above, that decribes the movie that was made a few years ago on his life, that can be very inspiring to read. He was an amazing man, and a fearless researcher. IMO, we in the bdsm world probably owe him an huge debt of gratitude. 

**P.S. - I am not sure what you experienced would ever qualify as a homosexual experience, (or an S/m experience, for that matter), when one considers you were drunk, it lasted 5 minutes, you were confused, didn't want to be touched sexually, etc.

But - I included the reference on the study because - I think there is a lot of unwarranted confusion surrounding sexual orientation, and sexuality in general, that just doesn't really take the many gradations of human sexual experience (or sexual orientation) into account - at all. Hopefully, my referencing this information did not offend you. That is certainly not my intent.

There is also much information included in this cite I referenced, about human sexuality in general, as well as some information about what Kinsey found about Sado-masochism. It is all good reading, IMO, because it is simply so educational, period.

If you really want to feel courageously inspired, rent the movie, Kinsey.
It is a very well done, and fascinating film!

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 9:52:41 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:31:38 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks to all of you for your help!  It was definitely good to be able to get things off my chest and have your thoughts on it.  I feel less weird about it, and I'll probably forget about it over time.  I've been thinking about it and I think I just didn't stop it because I liked the submission.  The part that freaked me out the most was when I looked up and it was a guy's face.  It is kind of reassuring to know that even though I didn't run away screaming right away, the part I wanted was the bondage, and I've known about myself for a long time.

And Evlgryn, it was good to hear your expression of libido too.  I don't know if maybe I'll develop a strong libido when I find the right girl, but for now it doesn't bother me too much to still be a virgin.  So I guess my libido must be pretty low because I have friends who say they go nuts if they don't have sex after a few days too, and I just can't comprehend that.  I guess what I was thinking was "hey here's a chance to get tied up."  Then when I realized it was about sex, I thought "get me out of here!"

It's still gonna be weird for a while.  I'll be friendly to the guy but I really don't need any in-my-face reminders of this right now so I'll probably not see him.  And I got rid of my alcohol!

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:50:57 PM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		TN, those are some good questions you asked.  I hear what you're saying about being touched.  I know my body didn't react to being touched, but I was so drunk I think it was probably impossible for that to happen anyway.  I basically passed out as soon as he left me alone so that shows you how drunk I was.  What I thought was "here's a chance to get tied up."  It felt good to have the handcuffs on, and I guess I was so desperate to be tied up, I thought I was willing to let him do things to me.  I mean it's been 3 years since anyone touched me, let alone tied me up.  I don't know what I thought would happen.  I guess I didn't think that far ahead.  But then when he bent me over, I realized I didn't want it to happen.  That's when I stopped it.  So I stopped it because I'm not gay.

Those were really great questions.

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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:53:31 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		The post most people write:   Contiuum of desires...yadda yadda...everyone is somewhere on the scale...yadda yadda.  Sensitive.   Thoughtful.  yadda yadda.   alcohol bad idea to the point of loss of conciousness.  yadda yadda.  exploration ok.  sensitive.  thoughtful.  yadda.

The post you really want to read:  

Dude, I'm gonna lay it all out on the perfectly skirted, properly set with clean linen and glassware, cunning little centerpiece on the table table.  There is no continuum.  You are either straight, or you are flaming, out of the closet, dancing around the maypole at Elton's 60th.  Face it, dude.  One act.  One touch.  ONE THOUGHT.  and whammo, you are playing for the wrong team, light in the loafers and wearing lederhosen.  And all guys....ALL GUYS....have to deal with it.   Yes.  I said it.  ALL.   Because all men are just a little bit...oh, so tiny....just a smidgen...QUEER.   Yep.   Blame it on the booze.  Blame it on Jesus.  Blame it on Rio.  But there it is, bucko.

So its time to get out the buf puf, learn to use gel and call it "product", buy a Cher album.  We're here.  we're queer.  get over it.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to selfbnd411)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 9:58:17 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		selfbnd411: Well it's good that's resolved for you. I believe you, and I don't think anyone wouldn't. You should know, after all. You are certianly the ultimate authority on yourself, I'd think. Hey hon, people here at CM are probably gonna like you either way, IMO. That kind of Q? It just doesn't matter to most people here - I really believe that, with all my heart.


P.S. Emperor1956 is joking (very funny, haha. Maybe). I got your point, though, and maybe you were trying to be serious.

This is just a question for anyone who wants to answer  - and I am honestly not trying to be rude in asking this, I really want to know -
 
Why are women so much less hung up on the possibility of this happenng, than men are? To me, that seems to be the case, and I just don't get it. I guess if it happened to me, I would maybe be momentarily taken aback, but not stunned or worried (actually, I just don't care anymore - and I am straight). But maybe other females don't feel this way, I dunno.
 
I've been to gay bars before. Some of my friends in college were gay men. Ocassionally at those places, a female lesbian would ask me to dance. I appreciated the thought, and politely explained I wa straight, and in most cases, they didn't ask me after that.
 
It didnt upset me. Mostly, they seemed to be very nice peope - I just don't want to sleep with them. Maybe some day, just not now. I just am not concerned about the whole thing, really, though. It is not a valid reason for me to be concerned, even if I decided I wanted to do that. I just don't care anymore, what anyone thinks about my sexuality, except me. But I am 47, but - I am not sure age has much to do with me not caring.
 
Why is this a big deal to most hetero men? Do they beat eachother up or something, if one of them who thinks they were previously straight, has "gay tendencies"?
 
Most of the females I know, probably wouldn't do that to a female under the same conditions- but then again, some females can be mean, so I can't say that is 100% true. I can say I think it seems less true for them.
 
If men do beat eachother up, or treat eachother harshly (still, yawn, sigh) for this kind of thing, (merely "having suspected gay tendencies", not actually making a pass at another man, or sleeping with them) could it be because they have more testosterone and are therefore just more "aggressive"? Or are they just less tolerant of eachother, naturally "more competitive" - or what?

 It's not like most of the women I know even care, as far as being "judgmental" toward men, as far as whether they are straight or gay - they don't really seem to care at all, in fact, (unless they want to sleep with them. Then of course it matters, but that is the only reason most of the females I know even care). 
 
In my experience, females are much less hung up on whether people (men or women) are gay or lesbian, or straight, regardless of whether they themselves are straight or "queer".
 
Most men I know don't care if females are queer, they may enjoy that, IMO, but I find men have can have (not always, but more often than females) more of a strong bias against homosexuals of their own gender.
 
Whereas, I really don't think as many females do have a strong bias against homosexuals of their own gender (other females) who might be gay, or bisexual). Why is that? 

Q : Anyone know why this is?   I am not criticizing men for being "sensitive" about this topic (really I'm not) - I am simply very curious. I really, truly wanna know, if anyone has any idea, as to why this might be.
Again, I am not trying to be rude, or "overly blunt" - it is just really an honest question, and I really am wondering what the answer might be.

It's Not a question the answer to which I am attempting to turn into a "gender specific, gay-tolerance" contest, either (truly, even if it may appear so, it is not).

I am seriously wanting to contemplate, and find, some answer to this question, out of sheer curiosity. I know it's not probably a "politically correct" question, but I am dying to know the answer. I am not expecting a load of responses, though. But if anyone has an idea, please write in here, and say what you think? Man or woman. Thanks.  

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/7/2007 10:56:09 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to selfbnd411)
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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 11:00:14 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		     Here's the 411 for you, 411.  You have no idea if you are actually straight or not if you're a virgin.  It's all theoretical.

    There are two schools of thought you should be aware of here.  One says there is no such thing as gay or straight, there are just some guys who'll suck a dick and some who won't.  The other school says you're only gay if you're on the bottom.

   If the whole point of getting a woman to tie you up is so you can be 'forced' to suck a dick, why not just bypass all the heartache, text the guy back and tell him to tie you up and fuck you like he hates you.

      I dunno, maybe I'm drunk.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/7/2007 11:51:40 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		P.S. I realize in my last post, I should have said hetero men and hetero women, when referring to their attitudes toward homsexuals, of either gender. My (very stupid, admittedly) mistake. I am just a little tired, it was not intentional.   

I probably went overboard in talking about all this I suppose. I did have two male friends who died of AIDs. Maybe my perceptionsa are way off-base. I am really not sure. I am not trying to insinuate hetero men are predjudiced against gay males here at CM. In fact, most of the men at CM I know (including the ones who posted on this thread) seem to be very tolerant of homosexuals.

But I guess what I meant was, they seem to struggle more with an "I'd never ever do that" response, if they are heterosexual, when thinking about a sexual gay experience that could happent to them, then straight females do in the same circumstance.

Maybe more straight females struggle with this than I am aware of, or maybe I just have very "liberal" straight female friends, I dunno. But I know none of them seem to think that if a female lesbian approached them, and they didn't want to pursue the activity, they'd feel any aggressive need to feel like maybe they were homosexual unless they were very clear and adamant in their response, if it was "No, thanks".

I think some females are also more open to thinking about having a homosexual experience, without feeling freaked out, even if they are straight, then most of the hetero men I know are - and even if they have no particular intention of doing anything about it (having a homosexual exerience).

I know that is not what the OP did, either. It is clear he did not. I am just saying that as a general social response, I see it more in hetero men (a lot less here at CM, than at large, thankfully).

But my thoughts here, are mostly hunches, Maybe I am wrong. I don't care how anyone runs their sex life, that's not the reason I am curious about tis, or thinking these things. I am just hating to see hetero men still feeling like they have to struggle with this area,  as far as thinking it is something any would look down on them  for, possibly, or that they should feel ashamed of, when actually IMO -

If anyone regardless of gender doesn't desire a homosexual experience, all they should have to do - is say a polite "No, thanks", and that's it. There is no need for feeling shame (although I can undertand confusion, possibly).

I probably don't know what I am saying, I am just rambling. But I just...I am not sure why I feel it is so sad a hetero man would feel a need to be defensive over this whole area. I am not sure why I am even saying this, really.

I am a woman, and maybe my confusion is because I don't understand this is some less- known-to-females kind of  "way men relate to eachother" thing that I am just not privvy to? - I dunno. Hope I didn't offend anyone by what I said. 

In any case, Happy Easter, everyone. I really do hope it's a nice one for everybody.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/8/2007 12:11:21 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/8/2007 12:07:45 AM   
selfbnd411


Posts: 598
Joined: 7/23/2005
Status: offline 		Hehe!  Well I think it's a very complicated question, Susan, and anything a guy could say would be just him speaking for himself.  I think it has to do with the fact that women are "supposed" to be more sisterly and men are "supposed" to be in competition.  If a guy thinks that another guy might be interested in him, it blurs the line and we don't really know where things stand anymore.  Throw in the fact that female bodies are generally considered beautiful--they're curvy, graceful, symmetrical, soft and smooth.  Men's bodies are practical--they're angular, clunky, they have parts that stick out and are misshapen, and are hard and hairy.  One time I asked a lot of my straight female friends whether they'd rather see a naked female or a naked man.  Nearly all said that men are disgusting and they'd rather see a naked female.  So it's a lot easier for straight men to understand why other women might want each other, but unless you're wired to want guys, it's not so easy.

As for myself, I think that TheHeretic is probably right.  There's always going to be a little tiny bit of self-doubt as long as I'm a virgin, especially since I'm a 30 y/o virgin.  I just saw a statistic in the paper a few months back--apparently, 99% of Americans have had intercourse by age 30.  You have to wonder why it is that you're behind 99% of the population.

< Message edited by selfbnd411 -- 4/8/2007 12:10:00 AM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/8/2007 12:22:45 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		selfbnd411: I really appreciate your reply, and the thoughtful response. I agree, thinking about it, that it could be the whole competiton thing. Men do have the whole testosterone thing to deal with. Actually I think some men's bodies are hot (not big beer bellies, etc). I think women's bodies (some of them ) are pretty, too.

Women are more prone to cooperation, vs. competition, I've read that in some studies I've read here and there, over the years, and I tend to believe that. Maybe that goes all the way back to Cave-man-woman days, I am sure there are lots of theories about why that phenomenon exists.

I think if you feel like you're straight, then heck, you are, regardless of whether you've "tested it out" or not. I knew when I was about 8 years old, that I was straight. A lot of folks I've known have said they felt attracted to either sex, and "knew" their sexual identity (gay or straight) before they were teen-agers, and maybe even before they were 10 years old.

Ditto for some people I know having an attraction to bdsm activity (or at least fantasies in that direction).

I don't really buy the idea someone has to have sex to validate their sexual orientation. I mean, if you wanted to make absolute certain, I am pretty sure somebody could make a case for that - but - I think there is a far greater case to be made for not having to do that to have a pretty certain idea of what it is, frankly.

If you feel very attracted to females I wouldn't let this experience make you doubt yourself. But please don't let any other overly macho hetero guy make you think it "means you're gay" (or that gay people aren't acceptable, for some reason). How the hell would anyone even come close to drawing that conclusion?  Not that anyone here did that (I don't think anyone did, I don't). Just sayin'...it wouldn't be fair to you, if that happened, IMO.  

Maybe the exeption is if someone has horrific sexual abuse in their background, or something (there are undoubtedly rare exceptions to any general idea where it might not be a great indicator of sexual orientation, I am thinking. But those are exceptions, IMO. I am not up on the "latest research", but I am comfortable with what I just stated, as a general workable idea.)  

And I do wolrk with abused and neglected kids, and am a little bit familiar with why those excetptions might happen. Fortunately, they do seem to be the exception, not the rule. I say fortunate, because on top of all of the other stuff they have to contend with, they sometimes add that sexual orientation questioning to the list. It wouldn't be a difficulty, if some of the world wasn't so predjudicial. I am digressing.   

I wouldn't worry about it. Sex will happen when it is supposed to happen. I guess I can get pretty "Zen" about all of this stuff - it "Just Is the way it Is"...Thanks for listening to me ramble on and on. I hope you have a nice Easter.

I think this was a very brave, and valuable, thread you started here.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/8/2007 12:51:05 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to selfbnd411)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/8/2007 4:47:00 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		I think women are just used to being approached and turning down offers so it doesn't mean that much more if it's another woman doing the approaching or a man. But straight men don't usually get asked home five times a night so they haven't any experience in turning people down and then going back to talking with their buddies.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Trying to understand a crazy experience - 4/8/2007 6:31:52 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		After reading all fo the posts and analyzing all of the imperical data....Hmmmm....You are a homo!

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(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 20
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