RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here?

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NeedToUseYou -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 5:39:39 PM)
I don't see anything wrong with what you did. The girl is an adult, she has a condition that causes her appearance to be outside normal parameters. Case Closed. I think some people confuse the desire to fit within normal parameters with being obsessed with beauty. Thus feel you must be promoting that behaviour. It would be one thing to get surgery to correct a condition that isn't immediately noticeable , for the sake of perfection. I think it is quite another to fix a condition, that detracts those around you, and puts up a obstacle to normal social interaction. If these things aren't important then why do 99.9% of women go about picking the right stylish shoes, or putting on makeup, or buying a nice flattering outfit, etc.... because it does matter in reality to some degree, but in theory land it sounds good to say it doesn't at all. IT DOES MATTER to every woman I've ever encountered whether they admit it or not, and it's not ego-mania to want to be within normal parameters of societal beauty. I mean if it didn't matter and all the ladies in the world were so uncaring about these things I'd be getting as much putang as Brad Pitt. I haven't seen my name on those most attractive lists, and the little, who actor/actress would you fuck list I've seen on these forums, are noticeably lacking individuals that are all personality but is chalk full of dunder heads like tom cruise, brad pitt, angelia jolie, etc.... I have no idea how those two views can exist simultaneously, at least MercNBeth(guess that is right from memory) is consistant. Let me see beauty is not important, one sec gotta to go put my make-up on for this profile pic, and damn these heels make my ass look nice. Oh, and while I'm at it I think I'll take a pic of my tits for the profile to show off my personality.(conglomeration, of 99% of female profiles, contain one or all of these, but it's not important to women, and shouldn't be, OK, ME THINKS PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BELITTLE OTHERS FOR BEAUTY PURSUIT WHEN THEY DO IT THEMSELVES). Now, obviously not all women, just the overwhelming vast majority. If it makes your niece for better about herself, and she's not a gucci chasing, beauty queen wannabe, then their is no harm as far as I can see.

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 5:46:36 PM)
NeedToUseYou: I agree. Thanks so much for listening, and for the comments. - Susan

ownedgirlie -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 5:57:45 PM)
Susan, First, I see nothing wrong with offering a grown adult a possible solution to her skin issues. However, going by your words about her: "...who has cried her eyeballs out many an evening over this condition." and "Jenny is in a lot of emotional pain over this." I still contend she might consider a therapist. I might recommend that to just about anyone who spends many nights crying their eyes out while in a lot of emotional pain. While I see nothing wrong with your offer, there seems to be a lot of emotions over this, and I think the bigger issue is everyone's ability (or inability) to deal with stress and conflict. Stress is not an excuse to fly off the handle to each other. Conflict does not need to include some of the things you are bringing up here. I think you all need to step back from your emotions and chill, to be honest. Wait six months....or a year...or more. Wait until the dust settles and everyone is in a position to have a rational conversation.

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 6:04:35 PM)
ownedgirlie: I think a therapist might help her feel she is not just the sum of her looks. But she really does basically already know that - but is starting to maybe doubt that is true. Unfortunately, IMO, this is mostly due to other people's reactions to her skin, it has nothing to do, with her being a good (or not good) person. Again, I should have maybe gone into more and better detail about all of this when I first posted, but I was ver upset when I first posted this thread I spent all day yesteday w/my ssister teating me as if I'd offered to sell my niece into non-consensual slavery, or something. Sorry for the lack of origianl information re: All that. But your suggestion might indeed help Jennifer, and I do appreciate it. Thanks for your comments. - Susan

shysubbie -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 6:08:47 PM)
You're stuck in the middle of a problem that may have no happy ending for everyone concerned. While I agree that external appearance isn't the be-all and end-all of happiness, it can make a huge difference in the quality of life. Your generosity shouldn't be mistaken for anything other than an offer to help your neice overcome some blemishes - something that every young woman would probably appreciate. After all, if a person has a zit or something, don't they apply something to it? Why is this any different? I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the others that your niece would outgrow her skin condition, or learn to accept it, or even that society should change to accept whatever we are. Society won't change, it's just the way things are - people will always have a problem with other people for small and large reasons. Eventually, we'd like to believe that society's prejudices will fade away, or be outgrown, but each one that changes will be replaced with a new (and possibly worse) one. Take care of what YOU can - you have no control over what others think, say, or do. unless they are personally committed to you as your sub/slave/bottom/etc. You've mentioned your sister's reaction as being possibly because of her husband's illness. While this can be a factor, it may also be a control issue. A lot of parents feel their children grow up too fast, and it's tough to let go. While this can be a factor in her reaction, it may be a minor one. A factor that may be even larger is your sister's age and hormonal stability - by that I mean that if she has a 20-year-old daughter, there's a very good chance that she is between the ages of 35 and 50. Women of that age, as you may know, begin to experience the symptoms of peri-menopause (or pre-menopause), or even full-blown menopause. The demands of having illness in the family, college-age children, among other stresses, can make these conditions larger than life, for a lot of us. In addition, it's the practice of many doctors to strongly suggest surgical options for women of nearly middle age, or when women are done with the childbirth cycle. Surgical menopause can be a violent, extremely confusing time, and any change, even so small a one as possible assistance in helping her daughter, can be overwhelming. If your sister is having any of this happen to her, in addition to what's already going on, her reaction might be a little out of proportion. And, no, I'm not saying menopause or any of the symptoms of it are an excuse for certain types of behavior, I'm just saying that it can have a profound effect on how the person experiencing it sees the world. I know I would have been thrilled to have a family member, any family member, help during the time when I needed a doctor's care but wasn't able to afford it. Being a student is a tough time, for everyone concerned, but your offer was generous and based on your own experience with the same problem. Your niece is a very lucky girl.

thornhappy -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 6:19:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO T Because IMO, many in the U.S. could obviously survive on things like Top-Ramen noodles 7 days a week, plus a few vitamin tablets, and supplements, and yet they obviously over-spend on food, - Susan no! nooooooooooooooooooo! not Top-Ramen! Spent some of my college days subsisting on Top Ramen for weeks at a time. I can hardly stand to look at them on the shelf....

myobedience -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 6:20:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO I really appreciate your comments. Cystic acne really sucks. If people think it's "no big deal", all they have to do to empathize more, IMO, is think about how they sometimes regard people who have it, and then just imagine what it must feel like to actually be the person who has it. I know people don't mean to be rude, but I seem to remember getting a lot of long, un-necessary stares, even little kids pointing, etc. It was really hard to take. I was not imagining it, either. Derma-Brasion (which has been replaced, for the most part now, by laser surgery as the "fix" for acne scars) was something I considered a life-saver for me. But at the time, I never could have afforded it on my own, and was very grateful my parents offered to help (we went "half-and-half", on the expense). But I have no kids, and Jennifer could use the help, she can't afford it, and my sister appears not to really think it's a "big deal". I beg to differ, but maybe she'd have to have had this problem herself, to know how much of a freak it can make you feel like. The surgery made me feel like a new person. ikt was definitely worth the expense (to me). Pro-Activ is great stuff (my niece is using it, btw). And paying for it herself, I might add (I really don't get my sister's attitude, in general. I see this as a medical, not just a cosmetic, issue, I guess). Anyway, I think it was nice of you to want to help your nephew. Why people (esp. relatives) would think you have an "ulterior motive" is beyond me. Why can't someone just want to help? Anyway....thanks for the ear. I'll give ya'll an update later, if this gets resolved anytime soon. - Susan You are welcome Susan !! I am a pediatric nurse.... do you know how many children come out with statements adults think? Adam, age 4 said to me as he points at my oversized cystic zit, "whats that LoLo, its ugly!" How many of you, proposing beauty is only skin deep, have had weeks of difficulty sleeping because your back was so full of acne you couldnt lay flat....only to turn over and the big cystic welt on your cheek that you treated with a warm wash cloth and medication 5 hours ago, wont let you lay on your cheek....you turn over, damn that fucker hurts too.... I was called "pizza face" by more adults than I care to acknowledge. My parents ignored my inner pain and my outer pain saying it will go away..I was 33 when I used accutane....nearly 20 yrs later, I still use proactiv.... I would do anything for someone I loved so they wouldnt have to suffer like I did...with inner pain and outer pain.

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 6:34:01 PM)
Thnaks for all of the helpful comments. I did not thinkabout peri-menopause esxplainging my sister's mood (maybe that is the problem with he. It's certainly possible). Cystic acne is no supeficial skin condition, IMO. And people can be cruel about it soemtimes, when they observe someone with this condition (not that these folks even deserve the time of day, but it can make the person who has the confition feel terrible). I agree - beauty maybe should "only be skin deep". Unfortunately, in my experience, it's notm, in many cases. Plus, I do think this is an extreme circumstance. I do appreciate all of the helpful comments. I am taking them to heart, and have calmed down, and feel much better about all, this than I did earlier. Thanks for the ear. I really appreciated it a lot. - Susan

kiyari -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 6:50:14 PM)
It is a hard lesson to learn, that what we would do (in many instances) to give others the hand up that we ourselves (imagined in their shoes) would crave, winds up being a disservice to those whom we, with all the best of intentions, meant to help. One of the horribilest (is that a woid?) feelings is to have meant well and accomplished ill in the doing.

QuietlySeeking -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 9:07:17 PM)
Susan.... I didn't suffer from acne, but from those stereo-typical Coke-bottle glasses, until I was in my early 30's. When I was younger, I dreamed of having the "rich uncle/aunt/godmother" who would provide me this key; I waited until I could do it myself and did so at the first opportunity...and am much happier because of it, not because of someone else's view, but because I can look directly into my own eyes in the mirror every morning and smile. You offered her that chance to smile... Your niece is an adult. When her mother sees her sans acne scars and how her personality can shine through brighter to others, perhaps it will soften her displeasure. Remember, it's only money, unless you don't have it.

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/9/2007 10:22:42 PM)
Thnaks for your kind comment. It is appreciated. - Susan

Vendaval -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 12:31:40 AM)
Hi Susan, I think you are very generous and that with a bit of time and more communication, the situation with your sister will improve. And her husband's health is weighting on her mind, no doubt. In regards to your niece, she is an adult and you have given her your word as her aunt and her godmother. Go ahead and help her find a good dermatologist and take her or his recommendations, get a second opinion, etc. Make an informed and rational decision about the best treatment for the scaring. I am not a fan of making everyone look like Barbie or Pamela Anderson. However; scaring caused by birth marks, accidents, acne, etc. are treatable and can greatly improve the self-esteem for individuals who suffer from scars and disfigurations. Regards, Vendaval

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 12:38:46 AM)
Thanks for your helpful comments, Vendeval. - Susan

krys -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 4:26:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: ANonnyMoose Come on people! I've cried a lot over my skin problem and it's NOT something that needs therapy. You just want to have nice skin so people will view you like they do everyone else. Why is everyone giving this girl and her aunt such a hard time? This procedure will make her feel happy. Are you a mother? I only ask that because the real issue has nothing to do with the girl's skin condition at all. Im a mother. I see the issue in the OP being with a mother that needs to learn her new place in her adult child's life is not as the "decider". I see one that should probably find a better place to make her feminist stand than on her daughter's continued lack of self esteem. I see a world of difference between wanting to look like "Barbie" and a woman not wanting to look like Edward James Olmos. Sometimes mothers have a problem seeing the line between being kept informed in what their children are up to and being asked for permission when their children reach adulthood. If a child has reached their 20s and their primary concern when making decisions is whether or not their Mommy is going to be mad, that parent has done something horribly wrong.

juliaoceania -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 8:38:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Susan, First, I see nothing wrong with offering a grown adult a possible solution to her skin issues. However, going by your words about her: "...who has cried her eyeballs out many an evening over this condition." and "Jenny is in a lot of emotional pain over this." I still contend she might consider a therapist. I might recommend that to just about anyone who spends many nights crying their eyes out while in a lot of emotional pain. While I see nothing wrong with your offer, there seems to be a lot of emotions over this, and I think the bigger issue is everyone's ability (or inability) to deal with stress and conflict. Stress is not an excuse to fly off the handle to each other. Conflict does not need to include some of the things you are bringing up here. I think you all need to step back from your emotions and chill, to be honest. Wait six months....or a year...or more. Wait until the dust settles and everyone is in a position to have a rational conversation. You know owned. I had very crooked teeth and bite problem. I did not smile as much, I looked down a lot, and people thought me to be very much a bitch when I was in school because I never smiled. I still never cried all night over it. I did cry finally when I went to an orthadontist and I was told that I needed this huge surgery that cost about 30k. I cried even more then the maxillofacial surgeon told me that if I did not get this surgery I would not be able to open my mouth when I was 30. It transcended the cosmetic at that point and it was beyond my means to pay for... but because it became a medical issue all of a sudden the insurance paid... how blessed I am! I never cried over crooked teeth, so I see your point. Back to Susan, you stated that your sister was "impolite", well when it comes to my child I am the biggest bitch on two legs and as impolite as one can be. We mothers are just like that. My sister has crossed a line with me on more than one occasion, and I was not polite about it. Politeness is not always possible when it comes to people crossing our boundaries. It sounds like you crossed a major boundary with your sister.

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 9:06:15 AM)
Thanks for commenting juliaoceania. Yes, I did seem to hit a nerve w/my sister; it took me kind of by surprise, really -and I plan to call my sister later this week to see if we can discuss this in a somewhat more reasonable manner. krys: I agree w/everything you said (thanks for the comments), although this is just plain weird behavior for my sister, she has never been an "over-protective" type of mother (or an ego-maniac at her child's expense) before this incident, and I think there must be something else going on with her. I am going to try to find out later this week just what that might be. I did see it as more of a medical than a cosmetic issue, actually, too. Cystic acne is actually pretty physically painful, not to mention, it can become infected, is relatively disfiguring, emotionally painful, etc. I can certainly make a case for it being a medical, vs. a purely cosmetic, fix here, no question (but of course everyone has their own "scale" re: What is considered "necessary" under these circumstances). My question is really, though: I, for instance, I take a fairly heavy dose of anti-depressant drugs each day, out of necessity. Why would anyone recommend I instead just not take them - and simply "tough it out" instead, when drugs are available to help me deal? It makes no sense to me, why someone would believe something like that. This is what medicine, and doctors are for, in my view. I get where juliaoceania is coming from on the teeth thing (and since my sister had extensive orthodontia growing up, to straighten out her own teeth, perhaps that is an example she could relate to). Also, this kind of thing is rarely inexpensive, too (it is going to cost something like 5K, at least). I hadn't thought of asking if maybe my sister's insurance would even cover this, but I might do that (if the conversation gets that far). I just sort of took for granted it wouldn't be (it wasn't when I had it, but maybe times have changed). Jennifer is still covered under her mom's insurance. But in any case, since Jenny wants this now, I will see she gets it somehow, since I already promised it would happen for her, and it would make her life easier, and her happier. Thanks for the comments, everyone. - Susan

MzMia -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 9:20:23 AM)
Susan make sure you update us on your niece's condition, we want to know how it turns out. I am going to throw in a 2cent comment here. I just took my niece and nephew home last night, I have had them since Thursday night and we took our little spring break vacation together as we normally do and went to Philadelphia. My mother {their grandmother} and I have routinely kept them for weekends and during Christmas break, Spring Break and days during the summer since birth. In fact since I am off in the summer {it helps to work in the school system, I pick them up after their camps in the summer and take them home} We are extremely close and I would say I am closer to them, than anyone I have ever met with their niece and nephew unless they lived or raised them. Actually my nephew lived with us from birth until the age of 1 so yeah he is sort of my baby[:)] That said, I will always be another important and close adult in their lives---always. In fact, they tell me MANY things they do not tell their parents, and their parents should be glad of that! They tell Auntie just about everything.[:D] They are entering middle and high school and my nephew will be off to college in 4 years which we discuss a lot. Many people would have a lot less problems with their children, if they had an adult family member that their children loved, trusted and WANTED to spend time with. It amuses me a lot since my nephew is going into the 9th grade, he loves to hang out with me. Good thing I enjoy rap music! I had thought at this stage that would not be the case, but then I am the coolest Auntie ever. [:D] Anyway, having a close relative that your kids love and trust and CONFIDE in, is a blessing. And yes, my sister in law and my brother and I used to have a few minor blow ups, but that is very rare these days. They are glad as hell the kids want to be with me as much as they do, and they have less peer pressure to worry about! They normally spend at least one weekend a month with me, we are planning our Spring Break vacation for next year and discussing where we will go this summer!![:D] But then again, how many parents don't love an Auntie that will keep your kids for weekends and give you time for yourself?*They are not only my niece and nephew, they are my surrogate children, 2 of my favorite people in the world, and there is nothing this Auntie will not do for her munchkins*

SusanofO -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 9:27:34 AM)
Mz Mia: It is nice to be an aunt, I agree. It sounds like you have very rewarding relationships w/your niece and nephew. I enjoy being an aunt. My niece Jenny is a great girl. She is just so special, IMO. She is so, so funny, and has the greatest sense of humor ever, plus she is also just so smart. Her sister, Deborah, is a great gal as well, although they are as opposite as night and day. Actually, now that you mention it, last year Jennifer is the one that approached me and asked me if I thought it was weird she had an "urge" (or at least thought about) spanking guys. She'd never ask her mom that, this much I do know. I am the one in my family who is considered to be, um, let's just say, the most "liberal". I posted about that, since I wasn't exactly sure what to do then, either. She asked me this in hushed tones, and was obvously a bit embarrassed, but her curiosity got the best of her. I saw absolutely no reason for her to be ashamed of this idea, and told her no, it was not "wrong", or "weird" (although I do sort of wonder how she knew to ask me, since neither of the girls has any idea of my bdsm involvement. I have never, ever mentioned in around either of them, or to that sister). But I am not worried about that, I am just kind of flattered she thought to ask me about it, actually. I do think if Jen would be anything, it would be a Domme, she has a bossy streak a mile wide (although in a nice way). I have no idea if she is, or is thinking about it, or not, but either way I think it's not a huge "deal," probably. I have no idea what major she will end up having in college; it will be interesting to find out, when she decides - because whatever happens, I just know she is destined to have a very interesting life. I will let ya'll know what happens re: This situation - and I thank you so much for listening, because this situation just threw me for a loop, and I needed to talk about it. - Susan

domiguy -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 9:31:11 AM)
Well if her mom,your sister, ultimately says, No! Hopefully her daughter will die from her acne and you will always be able to hold it for the rest of your life over her head.

MzMia -> RE: Need some feedback - am I wrong here? (4/10/2007 9:33:50 AM)
Susan, she is blessed to have you as her Aunt. Parents can NOT see or do everything, and young people need other adults in their lives they can go to and confide in. My niece is almost 12-->going on 15 of course. She is tall and developed and I have seen young men and teenagers eyeballing her, she is a little bit boy crazy, and she tells me so much stuff it makes my head spin. I have already started to counsel her, and I am glad we are so close, I am hanging on when she turns 13 I think I am going to want to lock her in a basement until she is 30. I have already TOLD her I don't want her dating until she is about 25! And I am fully prepared to chaperone! Speaking of chaperones, I plan to do that with my nephew next year, did you know middle and high school students go to Mexico and Europe sometimes? if they go---> guess whose Auntie will also be going? [:D] They are lucky to have me, I work in the school system, I am off, when they are off and that is making a big difference in all of our lives. On second thought, I am lucky to have them-->I miss them already. I don't have any biological children, so I CAN do for them. I still plan to adopt, and I am looking into it..Susan that will be another story! When I adopt, my niece has already said she will help me babysit-->you see the circle always go around.

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