What is subspace? And other newbie questions (Full Version)

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KaineD -> What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 3:54:56 AM)

Hello.  I'm a dom with no real life experience.  I keep seeing the word "subspace" thrown around.  What is this, exactly?  From what I've gathered, is it like being "in the zone", or something?  A euphoric state for the sub?

Also, what about aftercare?  What is the proper way to provide "aftercare" for your sub?

I was at my first bdsm related party a week ago, and there was a demonstration with a guy getting spanked.  His Mistress stopped every now and then and seemed to be talking into his ear... was she comforting him or something?

How can I be prepared for eventually being a real life dom?  Will a sub be impatient with me because of my inexperience, or will she help me learn the ropes so to speak?  I've had it said to me that I should try being a sub first.  But I don't think thats necassary, and I have no interest in it.  Surely that can't be the only way to learn.




Argentopal -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 6:40:41 AM)

Hi,
I applaud a "D" type asking such questions.  The following are my opinions only, and certainly not the only way to look at any of this.  I have been s in a Ds relationship for 10'ish' years now, full time.  I do not think of myself as a switch because my feelings never change.  I am never s to anyone but Argent.  I am D to select others.

subspace = "the zone" is a good way to think of it.  In my experience it can happen two different ways - it can be an emotional place where i go in my head because the emotional feelings are so intense in a scene that is not necessarily physical - think of intense meditation.  Subspace can also come about in a physiological way from the amount of endorphins and other hormones being dumped into the subs system.  Think about people in bad accidents who despite their own injuries lift the bus off the child; or think about what is called a "runner's high" where they hit that wall and keep running, they get a huge jolt of endorphins that make them feel good and enable them to keep going. our bodies ahve these incrediable ways of enabling us to function in adverse situations and hard physical play enables us to experience that without any of the trauma often associated with it.

Yes the lady you watched was probably asking him some questions or offereing comfort.  He might have been hesitant to be a demo and not liked being so vulnerable in front of strangers, but wanted to work thru those feelings, so was reassuring him everything was OK and he was doing good - one scenario out of many possibilities.  If they were into humiliation she may have been saying things to sustain that feeling. Each different person/couple will establish ways of communicating in a scene.

Aftercare is exactly what it sounds like - care after a scene/play/emotional.  SOmetimes it is necessary and sometimes not.  In casual play that does not get a bottom nito subspace aftercare may be as simple as a warm embrace, or the bottom might kneel and thank the top and nothing at all is needed.  if you are new and really want to get a goor reputation, even if yu have a very low key casual scene with a bottom and she seems totally OK, not spacey or confused after the scene and she says she is totally OK - check back with her after a few minutes and just ask if she is feeling all right.  If the scene is long and intense and you are both physically and emotionally spent aftercare might include wrapping the sub in a warm soft blanket, not letting her walk around by herself as she could hurt herself in that coming down state, sitting with her, talking softly to her, holding her, at home in an intimate setting it might be holding her until she falls asleep.  If I ahve had a really intense scene and just gone to lala land, I cannot even walk and I just want to curl up and be held and stroked all over like my back and arms until I fall asleep.  I might only "sleep" for a few minutes but it will be total and deep and I cannot be verbally cohearant or walk until my body has that few minutes of total recovery.  By the time you play with someone enough to get to that level of intensity you ought to be able to have an idea if what they need.  Over all, do not ever just walk away after a scene, make certian the bottom is OK, physically and emotionally.  If it is a person you know and you can check on them the next day by phone or email that is anice gesture as well - after a good scene they can experience 'subdrop' where all those wonderful natural high "drugs" wear off you go into a downward spiral of sadness, feelings of loss and to have the D top person show they understand that and check back with the bottom to make sure they are OK will help establish you as someone knowledgeable and careing.

You prepare just as you are doing.  Go to munches and parties and events and demos.  Make sure you know and understand all the local group protocols and rules and always when in doubt err on the side of good manners.  Be a gentleman.  Pay attention to everything.  Ask questions.  Watch for someone that is a nice person, is knowledgeable, is respected by others, and does things you want to learn to do.  Try to become their friend with out "kissing up".  Ask them questions, watch them play, ask their advice.  Many doms never bottomed and are fine doms.  I think because I have been a sub for a long time I bring certain things to my "D-ness" that are a benifit to the gentelmen I top.
Have fun!
MsOpal




MasterFireMaam -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 7:00:24 AM)

If you'll do a  forum search for subspace, there's been some good stuff said. Check it out!

Master Fire




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 7:02:08 AM)

I believe sub space is reaching total trust and letting go so you can fly,TRUST is the driving force behind it all,A place in your mind where you just push through every thing that is holding you back..SOME say there is Dom space,maybe so however I haven't been there.I believe a Dom should be aware of all things around him and can"t do so  "spaced"After care involves a lot of holding,kissing tell her what a good little bitch she has been,lots of water and juices along with a nice warm blanket.MY wife is one of the best at taking a sub/slave where they need to be and she takes the trip as well. ITS a special when both buy the ticket for the same ride...bounty




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 7:12:04 AM)

Subspace:
Generically it's an altered state of consciousness experienced by the bottom/sub/slave, usually associated with high sense of euphoria

http://www.collarchat.com/m_622770/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#622894
Crazy First Subspace

http://www.collarchat.com/m_549476/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#549596
blocked out scene or inaccurate memory?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_521560/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#521654
A question about "subspace"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_514967/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#515095
Different views of subspace and subdrop

http://www.collarchat.com/m_238766/mpage_2/key_subspace/tm.htm#280229
How quick do you go into subspace?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_440912/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#441045
Was this subspace?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_537506/mpage_1/key_subspace/tm.htm#537508
Subspace ??

What is SUBSPACE?

Subspace...?

Subspace

Subspace can you control it?

Subspace?

Not talking subspace...or sub drop...so what is it?

Subspace or just fantasy land?

Subspace safe?

Subspace or subdrop anyone?

Subspace? (2)

A thing called subspace

Aftercare:


http://www.collarchat.com/m_772983/mpage_1/key_aftercare/tm.htm#773055
how much is "too much" aftercare?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_725006/mpage_1/key_aftercare/tm.htm#725011
aftercare, the top side?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_598726/mpage_1/key_aftercare/tm.htm#599129
aftercare in ltr and casual play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_495421/mpage_1/key_aftercare/tm.htm#496775
aftercare- when to offer it and how much?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_491455/mpage_1/key_aftercare/tm.htm#492065
aftercare





sambamanslilgirl -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 7:36:34 AM)

subspace is my own personal euphoric zone in which i feel i'm having an out of body experience during a scene/session. subdrop is the moment when i come back crashing (sometimes hard) back to reality. this is where aftercare comes to play because i might feel dazed and confused when the scene/session is over. 




MariaB -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 11:08:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

..SOME say there is Dom space,maybe so however I haven't been there.I believe a Dom should be aware of all things around him and can"t do so  "spaced"


Sorry to pick out this bit because I know its not what the threads about but I have to just say that ‘Dom/Domme space’ has nothing to do with losing concentration.

I have only Domme spaced when I have been extremely sadistic. The first time it happened was when I was suspending someone four foot in the air on flesh hooks. The room was full of people but all of a sudden it was only me and him. I became extremely focused, so much so I felt his pain and could hear his heartbeat. I lost all track of time and what took around 30 minutes seemed to be seconds.  I was so in tune with him that I almost became a part of him.
During this time I know I did everything extremely efficiently and the contact I was making with the sub was spot on. I never floated off in any way.
I have since been able to Domme space whilst doing extreme CBT and medical play, though I must say that I tend never to go to extremes without another Domme/Dom or sub being present.




Celeste43 -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 11:15:45 AM)

Aftercare depends on the person. Physically, be prepared to offer them some water and either a piece of fruit or chocolate. Intense scenes can cause blood sugar levels to plummet. Have a blanket around if needed. We do bondage and I'm always cold afterwards. And if she has the shakes, then hold the water to her lips and feed her the chocolate.

Check in with her a little while later and it can never hurt to call them the next day. Sometimes the brain chemisty will drop the next day sending someone into a temporarily depressed state. This is caused subdrop. Contact, in person, by phone, by email is definitely appreciated if she drops. It usually hits the next day and lifts in two or three. Rest and taking good care of herself is important then, naps, hot baths, taking it easy.




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 11:25:08 AM)

I tend to agree however I have had some very sadistic and intense sessions in my lifetime and know that I could have very easily been left unaware of what was going on if I had followed the sub into space..Space is space no matter how you hang it out to dry...bounty




Slavetrainer2007 -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 11:33:51 AM)

Well you are sstarting out in the right direction.  Ask questions lots of questions. and if the local scene is your thing attend as much as you can. As is said manners is the best way to go until you learn. When asking questions, always ask different people, get different views. Most  subjects regarding BDSM are  opinionated. And everyone has their own way. It doesnt mean one answer is wrong  only different. Try not to take answers to questions as set in stone.  Use them as a guide.

You dont have to  get experience on the sub side( thank god ) to be able to dominate. domination takes alot of patiences, understanding, SELF control  and care. To be honest its alot of damn work.

You can learn on the fly, i found one of the best ways to help you learn the ropes is associate with  subs on a friendly level.  listen to their experiences.  They tend to often give valuable info.

Unfortnately most subs want doms with experience. They have to be able to put alot of trust in you  during scenes and play. They have to trust you abilities and your self control. However you may find a few experienced subs that will be willing to help you out even on a no strings attached basis. You seem to have you head  on straight which a big bonus to your current  lack of experience.

You might also find a novice sub that is will to  learn with you. While this sometimes isnt a good idea, if you take things easy and slow and dont try to get into anything to complicated( shibari or elaborate scenes) or hardcore( such as caning, knife play ,electrical play, breath play ) to fast you should both be ok. Alot of things in this lifestyle is common sense.  Just use your head.




TigressFL -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 12:25:57 PM)

Dom or Top Space...

I often play in public venues. There are lots of people watching, music going, people walking by, etc. and yet I am hyper focused on the person I am torturing and what I am doing without regard for what is going on around me. During that time, it would not be a wise idea for someone to come up and tap me on the shoulder or say something to me as the reaction would not be pleasant. For the lack of a better word, I am in my "Zone". I want to hear every breathe, moan, cry, scream, word, etc. I want to feel every quiver, shiver and shake. I want to watch the skin change colors and the beautiful shades it becomes. I want to feel the goose bumps. I am connected for every motion, for every move of their body. I am nothing short of very engrossed in the two or three of us. I feel "jacked up" or "high" with every stoke of the paddle or slap of my dragon tongues or whatever I am using. By the end of the scene when I have them in aftercare, I am still focused on them yet my body is shaking, wanting some more. I feel very alive and hyperactive most of the time. Once after care is done I either need to go right into another scene or go out and smoke a cig and just walk off the energy. On occasion, I am just wiped out and tired but that is not the norm. Most of the time, I want a T-Shirt with large letters that say.... NEXT?

Many do not want any aftercare but even so there are standard things I do for them...
1. Place them somewhere they do not have to hold themselves up.
2. Have them drink cold water.
3. Always keep and eye and an ear on them just in case
4. When they come back to earth, I will check their skin to see if there is anything that may need attention, etc.
**The order sometimes changes.

Those that do need more aftercare I do all of the above but it is also about affection and closeness. Holding them rubbing their hair, telling them positive thing like ... you were such a good girl or boy. Helping them feel safe, warm and cared for is what it comes down to. Sometimes taking that time is hard for me because I am still flying high or "jacked up" as I call it and really do not want to be sitting down but you do what you have to do to make sure they are ok because it is the right thing to do.

Tigress~FL





MaamJay -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 7:53:05 PM)

I agree with what has been said so far. And I applaud You for asking questions, as a newbie Dom, that is definitely the way to go. And also getting out into Your local scene, a good way to watch and learn and find some Mentor Dom/mes (and/or experienced subs).

Regarding space ... as one who is both Domme and sub, I find My Domme space is entirely different from my sub space. As others have described, My Domme space is one of intense focus, completely removing the sense of others around Me beyond My sub. My focus is on control of Myself and My sub, it is not a heady space at all. The only heady part of Domme space can occur well after the scene, after the aftercare, when I am reflecting on the scene ... then I might feel warm and fuzzy if it went particularly well, though I usually feel good during the aftercare too because of the intense closeness I feel with My sub.

subspace for me is something i progress through ... W/we use numbers from 1-9 as an indicator, 1 is normal, 3 is what Master calls my "goo-girl" or "Cheshire cat" stage ... one big happy grin and gooey-eyed look, through 5 which is my "giggle stage" (then He knows He's getting somewhere!) and then from 7 on i am into my drifty quiet stage when about all i can say is "i'm fine" and "more please Master". i have occasionally cried at this stage, other times i have drifted into sleep, other times i just come back out gradually. i have been known to be in so deep (W/we call that deep space 9 ;-) that i have ended up on the floor on my knees (not something that i can usually tolerate for long at my age LOL!) and Master has had to instruct me very carefully and assist me to even stand or move. It's awesome! Not everyone goes through the same stages, though an inability to process thoughts and respond are fairly common signs of subspace. This is why it is so important for the Dominant to be in control of Him/Herself so they can judge when the sub has had enough, as the sub may be beyond uttering a safeword even if both have agreed to use one. And they may be at the "begging for more" stage when really they should not have more. At the play parties W/we used to run, there was another giggly sub though. Sometimes Our Masters liked to start spanking us at the same time on different equipment and see who got to the giggles first LOL! I think it's important for new Dom/mes to realise that subs may do something unexpected like laugh or cry (and I've seen 1 or 2 get very angry and start swearing too!) in subspace, otherwise it can be rather disconcerting! It's a release and it can take many forms, both with different subs and with the same sub under different circumstances.

Generally, until trust is built up, You can't expect a sub to float off into deep space 9 the first time Y/you play. In fact, probably as well if they don't as it can be a scary space for some, to feel so totally vulnerable. That said, Master and I played with a fem sub twice before We moved here, and she went in very deep both times, almost instantly, yet We weren't doing anything particularly intense (introductory spanking, flogging and sensation play). That really surprised Us, and unfortunately she turned out to be prone to bad sub drop too, so even though We provided the aftercare at the scene and over the next couple of days, she got really down and even had to skip work one day. However, she had a lot of other issues in her life at the time, which may have accounted for her very deep release, and, unfortunately, the equal and opposite reaction! That highlights the need to get to know something about the person, even at a play party, if You engage in a scene with them. Spend a bit of time first in a quiet corner having a chat and make sure You have some means of contacting them next day.

Aftercare ... I find a blanket is a must, usually the Dominant is dressed and has been moving around whereas the sub is not and frequently feels cold, plus there is something wonderfully snuggly about a soft blanket. Water and food yes, I get a bad attack of the munchies after play, whether I was Domming or subbing! That's why there was always a "bring a plate" supper at play parties. Some need a little nap or just a quiet time before rejoining the social side of the group, Our Dungeon had a sofa and some chairs in a quiet space labelled the AFTERCARE area. Make sure the sub is grounded, able to talk coherently etc before leaving them, especially if they are driving home alone. If in any doubt ... offer to drive them/organise a lift for them with someone they feel safe with/ask if they can stay over/get and pay for a taxi. I wouldn't want their injury or death on My conscience!

The Mistress in the scene You watched may have been comforting/encouraging/humiliating Her sub, depends on their way of playing. However most likely She was asking him how he was going, trying to ascertain his level of space, how much more he could take, whether he was safewording. Especially when playing in a noisy space, it's important to get right up close and personal, and to not only listen to but eyeball Your sub to see how they are going. They might think they have called their safeword when in fact they whispered it. It's also advisable to check on other parts of them ... for example, if they are strung up to a cross for You to flog their back ... don't forget to check their fingers for circulation, ask if their arms are going numb etc. Extraneous discomfort like that can ruin an otherwise good scene!

I wish You luck in this exciting learning journey to Domhood. Remember, the only dumb question is the one You DON'T ask!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]




ExSteelAgain -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/9/2007 8:46:00 PM)

A vaso vagal response to over sympathetic stimulation.




aldompdx -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/10/2007 11:07:01 AM)

Subspace is a shamanic induced sense of transcendence from the body and senses. Biologically, it is the dysfunction by saturation of certain portions of the somatosensory system. This can be in the form of "shock" where one has a drastic loss of pain sensation. This is extremely "edgy" because in subspace, one cannot provide effective feedback about pain level or tissue damage.

Subspace can also include a sharp reduction in the activity level of the posterior superior parietal lobe, or "orientation association area" (OAA). One job of the OAA is to draw a sharp distinction between you and everything else; between you and not-you. The second job is to give you the ability to experience a "three-dimensional body" and to orient that body in physical space.

Such transcendence can be invoked through many means, including self will during meditation.




cutesub4Him -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/10/2007 11:43:17 AM)

subdrop sometimes doesnt happen for days, its when the sub completely comes down and most times feels alone and depressed... Its URGENT the Dom, if they dont live together, makes sure the submissive is ok a day or 2 after the actual session or scene... positive reinforcement is usually needed very much letting them know they did good and are cared for...
just my 2 cents for what its worth




ExSteelAgain -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/10/2007 11:44:07 AM)

Shamanic alright...yeah, buddy.




sweetnurseBBW -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/10/2007 11:59:11 AM)

Subspace for me is an place of euphoric feelings brought on by the multiple sensations of pain and pleasure. It is an endorphin release. Aftercare involves making sure the sub is ok after playing. It can involve holding, touching kissing caressing etc. Some will say a Dom needs to be a sub first. I don't agree with that. Experience in what you choose to be is what works for some.




WhipTheHip -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/10/2007 12:06:41 PM)

Subspace is a parking place for submarines.    It is also a special kind
of space where you can a signal from a space station in distress, as
in: "Captain, we are getting a subspace signal for the space station
hovering over ZX-241."




MariaB -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/10/2007 12:13:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Subspace is a shamanic induced sense of transcendence from the body and senses. Biologically, it is the dysfunction by saturation of certain portions of the somatosensory system. This can be in the form of "shock" where one has a drastic loss of pain sensation. This is extremely "edgy" because in subspace, one cannot provide effective feedback about pain level or tissue damage.

Subspace can also include a sharp reduction in the activity level of the posterior superior parietal lobe, or "orientation association area" (OAA). One job of the OAA is to draw a sharp distinction between you and everything else; between you and not-you. The second job is to give you the ability to experience a "three-dimensional body" and to orient that body in physical space.

Such transcendence can be invoked through many means, including self will during meditation.


I think its good to give these sort of warnings, especially for people who play to greater pain extremes. I do think though, that they are the extremes that we need to be very guarded about rather than what most here would consider ‘average play’ and ‘average sub space’.

I think its far more likely to find someone subspacing then fainting on you and its knowing how to recognise a potential faint and be able to differentiate that from spacing.

I recently played with a female in a club. She is known as fairly hard core. She has had clavicle piercing’s and can take many, many needles of varying sizes. She had never taken sutures before and this was what we had planed and she was very excited about the whole thing. We went through all the normal health checks before sticking the first suture needle in. She spaced amazingly quickly and then she mumbled she could hear rushing water behind her (a sure sign of someone going into a faint). Out she went, like a light switch! Play at this stage obviously stops and first aid comes into place.
I have found sub space and fainting to be very closely linked and for that reason I would never try to take someone into space whilst tied or standing up.

I have only seen the start of shock once and that was a female having her labia sewn up. In this instance we had a paramedic with us and she was monitored very carefully and the scene stopped from the moment he saw what was happening.  




aldompdx -> RE: What is subspace? And other newbie questions (4/11/2007 12:22:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I think its good to give these sort of warnings, especially for people who play to greater pain extremes. I do think though, that they are the extremes that we need to be very guarded about rather than what most here would consider ‘average play’ and ‘average sub space’.

I think its far more likely to find someone subspacing then fainting on you and its knowing how to recognise a potential faint and be able to differentiate that from spacing.

I recently played with a female in a club. She is known as fairly hard core. She has had clavicle piercing’s and can take many, many needles of varying sizes. She had never taken sutures before and this was what we had planed and she was very excited about the whole thing. We went through all the normal health checks before sticking the first suture needle in. She spaced amazingly quickly and then she mumbled she could hear rushing water behind her (a sure sign of someone going into a faint). Out she went, like a light switch! Play at this stage obviously stops and first aid comes into place.
I have found sub space and fainting to be very closely linked and for that reason I would never try to take someone into space whilst tied or standing up.

I have only seen the start of shock once and that was a female having her labia sewn up. In this instance we had a paramedic with us and she was monitored very carefully and the scene stopped from the moment he saw what was happening.  




I respect and accept your personal experience and observations. My experience and observations encompass a wider range of spaces than you describe. Many people have different responses, to many different vehicles of inducing subspace. Subspace can even be invoked simply through verbal guidance. While there certainly are degrees of transcendent space, there are also threshholds of many varieties which one crosses. You either cross a threshhold, or you don't.

"Precare" is critical. With proper "precare," it is medically documented and practiced in major academic institutions, that a woman can give birth without any pain medication whatsoever, and feel just minor discomfort. This is quite a bit more drastic than a few sutures. It has to do with the feedback loop in the mind, which adds one's anticipation of pain to the actual nerve stimuli, the sum of which is again fedback and added to the experience. Be aware in the moment, and you break the feedback loop.

Point -- subspace is not limted to pain, and is not directly proportional to the degree of pain suffered. It is a space in the moment, not an act over time.




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