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Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 12:13:39 PM

puella

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At the risk of sounding woefully ignorant, though I suppose, in this area I really am, is there some sort of correlation between either Dommes/extreme sadism and/or male submissives/extreme masochism?

I have seen any number of posts in this forum with some really really extreme ideas being either considered or just being discussed for tips, etc ( the sandpaper masturbation thingy immediately coming to mind).

Is there a more deep desire for sado-masochist components in the Domme/male sub relationship? Could it just be that men need more extreme physical domination experiences to really feel overtaken?

I am not meaning this to be a slam in anyway, I hope that is understood.. It just seems that in my observation of this subset of BDSM there is a bit more extremism (or perhaps just the willingness to discuss it), and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on that?

Thanks so much.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/9/2007 12:15:22 PM >

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 12:22:55 PM

Lashra

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No extremes here. I am a sadist but not to an extreme degree. We both enjoy CBT, nipple clamps, flogging, spanking. The "usual" fare I would say. I have heard some Domme's enjoy more extreme play than others as do their subs. So I think alot of what you are "hearing" are stereotypes more so than your average Domme/male sub relationship. I've read about some Dommes putting needles through their sub males nutsack and the like. I consider that extreme but on the other side I hear of male Doms doing it to their subs pussy lips. So I think it goes both ways.

I think you hear alot of things from all sides that kind of make you wonder about people lol. But I figure to each her/his own as long as they are happy and no one is getting hurt in a bad way, why should I care? So now when I read that stuff I just do not give it a second thought.

~Lashra

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 12:29:26 PM

puella

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Thank you Lashra,

I am not in the least bit masochistic, so I do understand that I am probably more squeemish than most about some of the things discussed, and though I didn't mean to make a broad statement about every Domme (obviously not everyone is the same), I had noticed a lot of 'extreme' (at least to my woosie ass) play discussed, and just was wondering about it.

Thanks for the reply!

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 3

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 12:31:39 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear puella, Ladies and Gentlemen;

To be very blunt, I do believe we who identify as Female Sadists are no less sadistic then our male counterparts. In application, I think sometimes the mental image is more of a scene then a physical one, as physical is more external but mental and emotional sadism is internal and the scars, injuiries and dangers really are extreme.

I will also add, that there are individuals who identify as Sadists because they have little whip skills and only know how to beat to a bloody pulp and just a stop and go button and no in between. You have individuals who 'hate' the opposite sex, opposite race and other excuses people have and just beat people because they can get away with it and enable their prejudices in the guise of S&M. Only the people know what their 'true' intent is. Some people see inflicting injury or disfigure as badges of giving/taking it. Yet, some Sadists can get the same results without injuries or disfiguring someone. And, frankly--not many Sadists or masochists take the time to get medically wise.

As a Female Dominant/Master; in my mind's eyes I see a more rigid expectation for protocols, etiquette and a military like structure. Men can be rather sloppy in the submission aspects and having a Dominant like me, they cannot be sloppy, its not about sex or kinky bedroom D/s. These men realize soon, that even with their arms behind their back and hands hidden, I know if they are rigid or relaxed as well as which wrist is against their back--I know how arms look anatomy wise when in that position. To some men, this is too extreme--to much work. That is why its rare to find someone--male or female in a collar of mine. Its earned by a lot of work--not playing house, playing games and indeed--not playing me.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 4

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 2:14:03 PM

undergroundsea

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I once proposed a similar idea and was quickly told that I would think differently if I had seen scenes by some leather dykes. I have heard of extreme play in gay leather circles as well. So I don't think femdom alone is more extreme.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 5

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 3:06:39 PM

GoddessDustyGold

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From: Arizona
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Hi Puella,

Good question...

I do not think that the F/m lifestyle is more extreme than the M/f. In the example you gave of the "sandpaper mastubationy thingy), it is important to sort it out and see that this was posted by a male sub. Although he claims this is something his Mistress wants to do, I have My personal doubts that he has a Mistress. I did not weigh in on that particular thread, but I did read it and I just quickly reviewed it. This male sub has a profile that indicates in no way that he is owned by or has a Mistress. Therefore, I question whether or not this is just a fantasy and he wants to get some additional jack off material.
I do see a lot of somewhat extreme fantasies, and they are always offered up by the boys, and tempered by the FemDoms. In that thread, if you look at it, the smart ass or "oh cool" comments came from other male subs and the cautions came from the FemDoms.
There are some very hot activities, possibly because we have such interesting dangly bits at our disposal, but I think for most things being done by a FemDom to a male sub, there is an equivalent activity being performed on fem subs by Male Doms.
The other aspect might be that, yes, perhaps we are more open about discussing certain things.

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 3:17:38 PM

Spar

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The first thing that came to mind is simply the biological differences of the sexes. Assuming we only sample masochistic submissives (whether into extreme or light pain), men, by their physical nature, are able to withstand more pain and need a greater degree of it to satisfy a similar need than would a female counterpart.

(Yes, yes. We can get into a debate about women being able to take more pain, as when giving birth, but I think that's a very different sort)

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 4:20:28 PM

thetammyjo

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I'm sorry I was laughing very hard .

The most masochistic partners I've ever had were female.

The less masochistic partners I've ever had were male.

Most of my partners have not been masochistic at all, just happily serviced focused and submissive.

It's an individual thing.

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Post #: 8

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 4:36:35 PM

BeachMystress

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I'm someone who actually uses sandpaper in play.. would I ever use it to masturbate someone? Only if I were trying to give them an infection. It does, however, make a wonderful sensation toy when used to "buff" a trapped nipple or cock head. (I put a photo of what I use for this sensation play at the top of http://beachmystress.femdommesociety.com/dommephotoalbum.php ) As Dusty Gold pointed out, much of what comes out of the mouth of unattached "male subs" is pure fantasy that belongs no where in reality.

While you're in my photos looking at the buffer, have a look at the other photos. I'm sure you'll find them sadistic and extreme. Personally, I find them to be fairly mild and normal. But 90% of the femsubs who view the photos or watch me play are certain I'm one of the most sadistic things they've ever met. Why? Because I'm mean to the man's penis and balls. And don't we all know that those male dangly bits are so delicate and deserving of respect? Um, not. You've bought into the male propaganda that part of their body is more delicate and deserving of preferential treatment.

I do suspect that you're lacking in experience with real time dungeon scenes. The stuff the males do to the females is in most cases more extreme than what females do to males. (At least in the dungeons where I play.) There is a guy who plays at one of our more popular local dungeons who spends his scene kicking the shit out of the femsub. And I do mean that literally. Much of the kicking is done to her vagina. More than one female sadist has left the room before he even gets to her vagina. They feel the abuse is too extreme before he gets that far. The Dom and male switches and male sadists watching tend to laugh and joke on the sidelines. Male subs tend to leave even before the Domme and female sadists. I offer an open invitation to take you to this dungeon any time you make it to Los Angeles.

This lifestyle has gradients from very mild to life threatening extreme in every orientation. Domme and female sadists are not more extreme than their male counterparts. (Male subs do, however, have a more unrealistic fantasy life that they are quite vocal about sharing. It gets them off to talk about it.) I suspect you notice more when you hear about males being abused either because you're listening to the fantasy from male subs or because it seems so outrageous to you that someone would be mean to such delicate parts of the male anatomy. Please keep in mind that it is all a matter of perspective.

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*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:09:23 PM

puella

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Woo! Like I said, I am very much the woos! I did look at your site, but think most of that stuff looked very much extremely painful! Perhaps I am just too soft. :)

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 10

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:10:05 PM

LotusSong

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Puella,

Some guys come to this lifestyle with the fantasy of the woman being cruel and merciless. They realize very quickly that somethings are best left in fantasy. In short- the Domme is as mean as he wants her to be. I say it that way because no matter what a woman does.. she is still female and, I know for me, sadistic play is a very long stretch. I could play the part but it wasn't my heart. I wanted him to be happy and if he was happy, I was content in a job well done :)

I think it's safe to say we dommes treat our property kindly.

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I'm not inflatable.

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:13:08 PM

puella

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Thank you LotusSong... I must say, that was the other side of what I was wondering, if perhaps the male submissive does have more intense and violent or serious pain fantasies to really drive home the idea of submission to a woman? Dunno, I certainly have nothing to base either my question or ideas on, and do appreciate you all being so considerate in your replies.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 12

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:15:46 PM

Vendaval

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I have heard this as well, undergroundsea.
It would be fascinating to observe more
gay and lesbian scenes and learn new techniques.

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

I once proposed a similar idea and was quickly told that I would think differently if I had seen scenes by some leather dykes. I have heard of extreme play in gay leather circles as well. So I don't think femdom alone is more extreme.

Cheers,

Sea

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:19:00 PM

BeachMystress

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I do not think that the fantasies of being firmly put in their place are male only oriented. I think male subs are just quicker to talk about them. Femsubs of my acquaintance tend to be more cautious in their feelings and don't put their more extreme fantasies out their easily. They are afraid of humiliation and rejection. It isn't until they have emotionally bonded with you that they'll cautiously admit to extreme and degrading fantasies.

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Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:30:50 PM

BeachMystress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella
to really drive home the idea of submission to a woman?

Actually, the most common theme I've found in male subs on this score of driving home the idea of submission is the desire to be sodomized forcibly by a woman.. aka anal rape. That is also a common fantasy among female submissives that I know. Again, I say please keep things in perspective. You're judging by comments made by guys calling themselves male subs on a chat board. A percentage of the males on here calling themselves sub are in actuality HNGs (horny net geeks) looking for a cheap thrill with which to wank off.

And while I do not consider you a wuss, I do feel you lack the .. how do I put it.. breadth of experience.. to truly judge what is and isn't extreme. Have you ever witnessed an actual scene between a Domme and malesub? The only photos on that page I'd consider a bit "out there" are the ones of the needles in the sub's cock. *smiles* If you're interested in a male view of how the activities in those photos stack up pain wise/extreme wise, I'll have my husband visit the thread when he comes home.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to puella)

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:41:03 PM

puella

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Yes, I have, quite a few times, it is just not something that appeals to me, for what ever reason. I can fully appreciate the time and effort that goes into them, I just.. hmm.. not something I like to watch, for what ever reason. I am willing to take what you say as true, that the majority of the men here who post radical fantasies or things they say their Dommes want to try on them could just be HNG's, I am just exploring the ideas. I hope I am not offending you.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to BeachMystress)

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:58:09 PM

MsCfromMelbourne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Perhaps I am just too soft. :)

Puella

I have seen extreme masochists with looks of rapture during play and minutes later scream like a little girl if they stub their toe

Why?

IME in real life, extreme play is almost always an illusion and a good Dom/me is a brilliant illusionist. Real pain only occurs when the Dom/me stuffs up the magic trick

Examples:

1) Fire play looks extreme (you set your subby on FIRE!!!). So I did a fireplay workshop at TES in NY and guess what? The bottom feels nothing. Its the alcohol evaporating off the skin that burns not the skin.

2) Needle play looks extreme (my GOD you stick needles in someone!!!!). Well I put some in myself and I am here to tell you - it is nothing! The needles are tiny and they are threaded through the epidermis, not stuck straight into organs. Feels no worse than a mosquito prick or acupuncture.

3) Flogging sounds extreme (all that whacking and cracking!!). Feel the flogger. Soft suede makes an almighty noise and feels like a massage. Heavier floggers can sting or thud but people queue up for it because it does not really hurt. Deep tissue massage hurts more than flogging........truly!

4) Wax play? Drop wax from such a height it does not burn. Use plain candles only not beeswax. getting your legs waxed hurts more.

5) Ball kicking? The trick is to give the balls room to swing with the kick and pull the kick at the last second so it looks vicious but isn't

6) CBT - isn't really torture. Tied up tight, cocks and balls go and impressive purple pretty quickly, but they bounce back to normal quickly too. Very resilient critters! Have never had one drop off yet....and never had someone not come back for more

7) Domestic violence role play - I saw one of those guys at Paddles in NY. The shoves, punches and kicks are pulled and they only land on the meaty parts (thigh, bottom, upper chest, back). Nothing lands in the face, breast or bony parts.

**************

These scenes are all designed to impress and disturb onlookers. Hence the subs hamming it up screaming and crying and the Tops hamming it up looking evil.....the players are partly getting off on your reactions as the audience (and all power to them)

Extreme pain only occurs when a Top makes an extreme mistake or is an extreme idiot.

My suggestion:

Go along to a play party or club, watch and work out for yourself how the trick is done. Its all smoke and mirrors and very, very clever :)

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 4/9/2007 6:05:05 PM >

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RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 5:59:39 PM

lovewithoutfear

Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2005
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I stay with Sir in Los Angeles on an intermittent schedule, and I find there are some clubs that welcome this level of extreme play (which he and I prefer) and others that don't. Would you be willing to PM me or email me with the name of this club? I already know of one where Sir and I can feel pretty free to cut loose, but if there are others, that would be good to know.

Respectfully
lovewithoutfear

You wrote,

"There is a guy who plays at one of our more popular local dungeons who spends his scene kicking the shit out of the femsub. And I do mean that literally. Much of the kicking is done to her vagina. [...] I offer an open invitation to take you to this dungeon any time you make it to Los Angeles. "

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 18

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 6:02:06 PM

puella

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Joined: 12/2/2004
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Hello, MsCfromMelbourne,

Now that is something I never knew! Thank you!

But.. why would either party want to engage in something that is really just putting on a big fake out for a others?

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)

Post #: 19

RE: Domme/male sub.. more extreme lifestyle? - 4/9/2007 6:05:47 PM

BeachMystress

Posts: 2156
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From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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*smiles* No, you are not offending. Honest quests for understanding and knowledge are never offensive.

You say you've watched male subs be played. Have you ever had conversations with them? If so, do they seem to have the same ideas as the "male subs" you read in here? In my experience, any male sub that has the possibility of having his fantasies played out is a lot more careful about what he says he wants. Those who have served for real understand that -gee, guess what.. pain actually hurts. Fantasy pain is erotic. Real pain can be, but isn't always. Sometimes it is just unpleasant. HNGs have no reference for what is reasonable and what is beyond the pale.

And the reason it doesn't speak to you as a form of play is that you are looking (I am not implying in the active sense, but in the overall sense) for strong men. You want to be the submissive. Think about it.. while you still might respect a man who let a woman "do those things to him" as a human, you'd probably lose any sexual interest in him.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 20

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