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freedom in slavery - 4/19/2005 10:33:50 AM   
slaveanwyl


Posts: 36
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline 		A/all

why do we never talk of the freedoms slavery give to us ? why do we always always talk about the lack of rights if a 24/7 TPE.. or that TPE is at what some call the extreme end of BDSM (not true )

i have found so much freedom inside my slavery to Master i think we should celebrate what we are able to do and how well we develop our own sexuality within slavery and how well we actually serve out owners..
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/19/2005 10:52:41 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		It's one of those lovely life paradoxes.

Truly, we find freedom in being true to who we are.

Whether that happens to be as a slave, as a Wiccan, as a wife, as a mother, as a bisexual, as a nun, or as a soccer player- if we are being who we are, then we will be free and have that same sense of fulfillment.

(in reply to slaveanwyl)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/19/2005 1:27:32 PM   
BobcatsLilMinx


Posts: 201
Joined: 4/8/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Yes!! Freedom in slavery!! I love those three words!!

I have been so much happier with myself since I learnt to accept this part of my nature. It's been a big step in learning about myself, and accepting that person. Or people.

The wonderful obsessive-compulsive submissive bi-sexual muliti-lingual and multi-personalitied Minx thing.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/19/2005 10:19:47 PM   
ravenna


Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Finding freedom in slavery is so utterly self-evident to any slave -- and so incomprehensible to any free woman (or man) who is truly meant to be free. Maybe that's why it hasn't been mentioned much here? Just a guess...

And the freedom in slavery is more, much more, at least to me, than simply the relief of not having to pretend to be something i'm not, the freedom to be what you are. It's the most profound freedom of all, the freedom to simply be, to simply experience and accept every sensation and emotion i encounter without having to (or even being able to) judge and measure and compare and evaluate and equivocate and try to decide whether to accept or reject or adjust it, or ask for a do-over or say i'm not that kind of girl or run away from it in terror. Since i'm forced to accept whatever is done to me in my life, i have the freedom to get beyond all the value judgments and just live. i think this is why i and most slaves, whether we're pain sluts or not, say we experience pain and pleasure as pretty much the same kind of thing -- as pure sensation, without judging the pain as something evil to be rejected.

If a slave can find the trust and faith in her soul (and the right master to give that trust to) she can simply say YES to the whole universe and everything it throws at her without having to decide. At that point all her big decisions in life have already been made for her...

And anyway there are lots of little decisions left for a slave to make. Should i say Yes, Master, or Oh my God, Master, yes yes yes, please, if you don't i will simply die! (Correct answer: Oh my God...) Will my master be thrilled or annoyed if i grab his hand and slide it way up my skirt right here in the theatre lobby at intermission? (Answer: Thrilled. Duh.) Should i start swallowing now or -- wait -- wait -- wait -- NOW?! (Answer: Now, for the love of God, NOW!)

(in reply to BobcatsLilMinx)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/20/2005 5:32:01 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenna
Finding freedom in slavery is so utterly self-evident to any slave -- and so incomprehensible to any free woman (or man) who is truly meant to be free. Maybe that's why it hasn't been mentioned much here? Just a guess...

I don't think so. I don't think it's incomprehensible and I think a lot of "free people" absolutely understand. I have a vanilla soul mate who understands exactly how I am owned, but has no idea why I can't be monogamous!
quote:


. It's the most profound freedom of all, the freedom to simply be,

Why can't everyone be free to do this?
quote:

to simply experience and accept every sensation and emotion i encounter without having to (or even being able to) judge and measure and compare and evaluate and equivocate and try to decide whether to accept or reject or adjust it, or ask for a do-over or say i'm not that kind of girl or run away from it in terror.

Hmm well I never WAS that kind of girl to run away from myself :) But I still judge, measure, compare and evaluate. I'm expected to by the Owner in the first place, and secondly, as a philosopher that IS how I find my fulfillment, in the evaluating and deeper levels and discussions.

quote:

Since i'm forced to accept whatever is done to me in my life, i have the freedom to get beyond all the value judgments and just live.

I don't think slaves are excused from value judgements unless they get to live locked in the house all the time with no contact with the outside world. Most modern day M/s slaves have families, jobs, adult responsibilities in service to their Owner and that requires them to make and keep value judgements.

quote:

i think this is why i and most slaves, whether we're pain sluts or not, say we experience pain and pleasure as pretty much the same kind of thing -- as pure sensation, without judging the pain as something evil to be rejected.

I haven't noticed slaves being more or less likely to be masochists. I certainly hate pain, though the Owner is a heavy sadist.

quote:

If a slave can find the trust and faith in her soul (and the right master to give that trust to) she can simply say YES to the whole universe and everything it throws at her without having to decide. At that point all her big decisions in life have already been made for her...

Not in my life. While the Owner holds authority over everything in my life, he expects me to be able to make decisions competently to ease his life.

quote:

And anyway there are lots of little decisions left for a slave to make. Should i say Yes, Master, or Oh my God, Master, yes yes yes, please, if you don't i will simply die! (Correct answer: Oh my God...) Will my master be thrilled or annoyed if i grab his hand and slide it way up my skirt right here in the theatre lobby at intermission? (Answer: Thrilled. Duh.) Should i start swallowing now or -- wait -- wait -- wait -- NOW?! (Answer: Now, for the love of God, NOW!)


LOL each of my answers was the opposite of yours.

Slavery is just another way to be, no more or less profound than any other way, no greater or lesser freedom in being that. If you accept who you are, truly, then you are free, whether it's as a slave, as a dom, or as a vanilla person.

(in reply to ravenna)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/20/2005 12:16:07 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

Slavery is just another way to be, no more or less profound than any other way, no greater or lesser freedom in being that. If you accept who you are, truly, then you are free, whether it's as a slave, as a dom, or as a vanilla person.


Beautiful!

Of course slavery, for a slave = freedom.
Because one is allowed to be what one is, because one 'submits' to what one is and can be.

Yes there is freedom from making choices, but not all slaves may want this and not all Masters would either.

I enjoy pain, yes on occassion and it allows a different type of release, but ultimately I am a sadist. So I agree with Emerald that not all slaves are masochists, because there just isn't an awful lot of proof to back this up. Most of the subs/slaves I know are sadistic, and that is probably because of the type of personality I am and I am attracted to as friends, but I wouldn't claim that most slaves/subs are sadistic in nature.

Freedom comes from allowing and being allowed to be who you are and releasing ones full potential, no matter what Lifestyle you are from. Don't misunderstand me, I do find freedom in being Owned by Demon, but I find freedom in being a mother, and being an artist. It is really easy to try and raise BDSM as some higher life choice and raise our own profiles. But it can be dangerous, because people who might not adjust to the 'perfect ideal', may see themselves as failiures and that may end their potential. Glorifying BDSM Freedom above other types can be IMO, edging on fundamentalism.

Freedom to be yourself is a much more acheivable goal.

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/20/2005 10:04:59 PM   
ravenna


Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Golly, EmeraldSlave2, it's an honor to receive such an exhaustive line-by-line dissection and refutation of my little cri de coeur. ;-) i'll resist the impulse to return the honor and refute the refutation line by line, and confine myself to a couple of observations...

Freedom in slavery is one of those paradoxical/oxymoronic/Zen-koan-like phrases, like sound of one hand clapping, military intelligence, peace through war or jumbo shrimp. Most of us probably don't even agree on what freedom means, much less freedom in slavery. And that's okay, we probably don't need to. We're free to disagree -- even if we're slaves.

You and i probably have a lot in common, and you and i are also very different. That's okay too -- Vive la diff, no? i think maybe the most important words in my little speech were the words "...at least to me."

Finally: If everyone could effortlessly and at will experience "the freedom to simply be," no one would ever climb into a roller coaster or jump out of an airplane -- or place herself in the hands of someone who might do almost anything he pleases with her... And no, that's not really why i do it, it's not for the "peak experience," i do it because i'm owned and my owners require it of me; the freedom i find in slavery is just a beautiful accidental effect of being owned...

(in reply to darkinshadows)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/21/2005 3:25:54 AM   
BobcatsLilMinx


Posts: 201
Joined: 4/8/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Vive la difference, oui!!

Sorry. People speaking French always makes me excited. I have nothing to contribute except an emphatic agreement. But I had to contribute cuz of all the exciting, inspirational French. Ach, I don't expect anyone to understand really...

*giggles and leaves the thread to the more intelligent responses*

(in reply to ravenna)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/21/2005 8:54:07 PM   
ravenna


Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Merci beaucoups, Mlle. Minx!

(in reply to BobcatsLilMinx)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/23/2005 4:25:13 AM   
ggonknees


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		And freedom to not conform to what is defined as 'normal' by society?

(in reply to ravenna)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/23/2005 4:34:34 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

Freedom in slavery is one of those paradoxical/oxymoronic/Zen-koan-like phrases, like sound of one hand clapping, military intelligence, peace through war or jumbo shrimp. Most of us probably don't even agree on what freedom means, much less freedom in slavery. And that's okay, we probably don't need to. We're free to disagree -- even if we're slaves.


Sorry... still giggling at the thought of 'military intelligence' as an oxy-moron... very good.


I agree, that not everyone can or will agree on a definition of 'freedom in slavery'... because it is a personal thing(IMO)... but one thing that cannot be denied is the definition of freedom, because although it cannot always exist, it is still always there.

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to ravenna)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/23/2005 7:04:39 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ggonknees

And freedom to not conform to what is defined as 'normal' by society?

Yes and no. Yes, freedom to be who I am, whether that conforms to societal norms or not.

Most female slaves and subs in America like to shave their arms and legs, hether they are required to or not. It's a social norm here. Most female slaves like having the male dom take care of them, either with little things like opening the door or paying for dinner. That is a social norm.

If I woke up tomorrow and being an owned slave like I am were the absolute normal thing to do in society, it would still be who I am and what I did.

While I get excited about pushing boundaries, getting attention, and going against the grade, it's not where the freedom and fulfillment is found.

So what matters isn't "is this a societal norm?" but "Is this ME?" Sometimes I want and like what everyone else wants and likes.

(in reply to ggonknees)
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RE: freedom in slavery - 4/24/2005 11:51:52 AM   
srahfox


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		I don't believe this is a slave only feeling. I fall somewhere between a slave and a submissive (At least for know anyway, I have more slave tendancies than I ever I thought I would). I know exactly what you mean. I have never been so happy in my life. I don't worry anymore that I'm not doing the right thing, that my husband isn't happy. (I was never one to start anything and he thought that meant I didn't love him, I didn't know how to tell him it felt wrong) I don't worry that I have eaten too much (No longer up to me). I couldn't never go back to the way it was. I do not care for pain myself, but I welcome that I can give my endurance to him. I can't even truely put into words how much this has changed my life and how free I feel now that I no longer have certain choices in my life.
Oddly one of the things that made me really understand how much this ment to me was something that didn't include my Master. I was at a friends and I was hungry (Keep in mind my Master doesn't expect me to starve if he's not there, but it was a wierd situation). Master was not yet back from helping move a bed. A friend of mine was there who is just really coming into his domanant self. He's been domanant for years, he just thought there was something wrong with him. Well, he asked why I hadn't just gone and gotten something to eat. I told him I needed not talk to Master. At first my friend didn't understand, and I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and told him I needed to talk with him first. He look really hard at me and I saw something in his face change, get softer (it was wierd) and then he said "Ah, I understand." And I knew he really truely did and that there was some kind of responce in him. I knew that was likely the same thing that happened in my Master and I was so pleased that I was a part of that.
Ack.. sorry, All of this rambling to say I agree and it's a wonderful thing.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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