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legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 3:29:27 AM

lovingsubboy

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Joined: 4/20/2005
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is there any way to word a slave contract to make it legally binding? For instance, How about if the word slave were elimiiated altogether? Make it an employer/employee contract, requiring the employee to live on the employer's premises, wear a uniform that can be chosen solely by the employer and do exactly as the employer orders, as long as it's legal. In order to give the employee incentive to stay, the employee pays an agreed upon nonrefundable Security deposit at the time the contract is signed which covers any damage or inconvenience the employee may cause by deciding to terminate the contract prematurely. However, if the employer terminates it early, the employee may receive all or part of the deposit back. Obviously, this is overly simplified, but wouldn't a contract like this actually be legally binding while, being essentially a slave contract, with a costly "out" for the employee?

Post #: 1

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 7:12:57 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

is there any way to word a slave contract to make it legally binding?

how about adoption?

quote:

Adult adoption is handled differently in all states. Some state statutes only provide for adult adoption if the person to be adopted is of diminished capacity. Some states require the consent of the spouse of the person to be adopted (if married), some require notification of biological parent(s), and some require nothing more than the consent of the adult parties. http://adopting.adoption.com/child/adopting-an-adult.html

(in reply to lovingsubboy)

Post #: 2

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 8:08:15 AM

ManOwner

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Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Sacramento, California
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No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Your slave contract will not be legally binding. It's not about the words, it's about the intent. Any U.S. court will find such a contract unconscionable and will not enforce it. Furthermore, an agreement is only a contract when the parties bargain and exchange things of value. The benefits of a personal relationshp rarely qualify.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 3

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 11:57:15 AM

darkinshadows

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Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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If you want to read more, there are posts available on the subject loving subbyboy. Just do a search for the word 'Contracts' or something like that.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to lovingsubboy)

Post #: 4

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 1:05:22 PM

ManOwner

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Sacramento, California
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I want to add a comment about adoption. Don't do it for this purpose. Adopting an adult won't give a master any of the legal rights he or she is after (and of course, if someone tried to have a BDSM relationship with their minor child, natural or adopted, we'd be talking prison time). Does your blood relation to your own parents give them any special legal right to treat you like a slave?

Adoption will bind the master much more than the slave. Your slave now has the right to inherit your stuff when you die. And if you go into a persistive vegetative state without a living will and he's your next of kin . . . guess what?

< Message edited by ManOwner -- 4/20/2005 1:10:02 PM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 5

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 8:41:43 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

and of course, if someone tried to have a BDSM relationship with their minor child, natural or adopted, we'd be talking prison time

YOU said minor...not the OP, and DUH.

quote:

Does your blood relation to your own parents give them any special legal right to treat you like a slave?

as a matter of fact....yes, as long as it isn't sex slave.

this slave's parents always did, and in a loving way most of the time. there were times when they were very strict. they had more rules than the military, (and that's where a LOT of them came from!) more than once this slave's mother would say she didn't do housework-that's what she had 2 girls for(and she NEVER did housework, well, just the one time to show us how she expected it to be kept, daily, weekly and/or monthly requirements). there were times when she reminded this slave that the clothes on her back did not belong to her, they belonged to mom&dad, just bought in her size. and that room she lived in? well, that was just space she was being "allowed" to use, as well as the furniture, the phone and even the shampoo in the shower---it was not hers---she had ownership of nothing and no "rights" either. what was this slave's end of the contract to uphold? obedience in all things(speech, clothing, food being chosen, social interactions in and outside the household) respect and A's on the report card......oh yeah, and in by 12 or it's yer hide. that attitude remained until this slave was 18 and no longer the property of her parents. this is not meant to be a harsh critique or a sob story, just telling it like it was....and it often sounds very slave/Master/Mistress or property/Owner ABSOLUTELY DEVOID of any sexual over/undertone...which, by the way, some Master/slave property/Owner relationships happen to be.

(in reply to ManOwner)

Post #: 6

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/20/2005 9:05:00 PM

ManOwner

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From: Sacramento, California
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What we have here is a failure to communicate. You said "DUH" to me when I pointed out the difference between minors and adults, but my whole reason for doing that was to emphasize that this hypothetical slave is an adult in my mind, not a child. Therefore, when I asked the rhetorical question about parents, I was making a point about adult children only, not minor children. However, since you went there, I would like to point out that children are in no way the property or slaves of their parents. A parent's authority over her child has limits, just as her responsibility for her child also has limits. Children have certain rights that are enforceable against their parents, including the right to hold property. I hope that clarifies my previous post.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 7

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/21/2005 5:46:29 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingsubboy

is there any way to word a slave contract to make it legally binding? For instance, How about if the word slave were elimiiated altogether? Make it an employer/employee contract, requiring the employee to live on the employer's premises, wear a uniform that can be chosen solely by the employer and do exactly as the employer orders, as long as it's legal. In order to give the employee incentive to stay, the employee pays an agreed upon nonrefundable Security deposit at the time the contract is signed which covers any damage or inconvenience the employee may cause by deciding to terminate the contract prematurely. However, if the employer terminates it early, the employee may receive all or part of the deposit back. Obviously, this is overly simplified, but wouldn't a contract like this actually be legally binding while, being essentially a slave contract, with a costly "out" for the employee?

A slave contract cannot be made legal in the US.

An employer/employee contract as you describe may or may not be legal, talk with your attorney. It's still not a slave contract, since it can be broken.

Probably the closest thing legally you could do is have power of attorney for someone, however, this can be terminated also.

(in reply to lovingsubboy)

Post #: 8

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/21/2005 8:00:31 PM

diaperedbaby

Posts: 158
Joined: 3/13/2005
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Some of you are goofy

There is no cotract that could be legally binding that a slave couldn't break regardless of the state.
What are some of you thinking?
Leave that stuff in the fantasy world

(in reply to Guest)

Post #: 9

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 2:39:11 AM

chainedgirl

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Joined: 2/5/2005
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The only form of contract that would come remotely close is to marry said slave, but then that too can be broken.

(in reply to diaperedbaby)

Post #: 10

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 9:14:19 AM

selphaware

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Joined: 10/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingsubboy

is there any way to word a slave contract to make it legally binding?

i don't believe that any court in the united states would enforce any such contract, no matter *how* it was worded...and would you really want to be in a D/s relationship where you have to rely on our legal system to maintain the integrity of it?? if the two (or more) parties can't make a go of it by just operating as intelligent adults, how could enforcement from the courts make it work?

s.

(in reply to lovingsubboy)

Post #: 11

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 12:39:47 PM

obedientmwm

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Joined: 4/19/2005
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i agree that the intent is more important than the contract.

If however, one is looking to create an enforceable contract, the method to do this might be to load so much in the way of consequences should the slave break the contract that "he" (in my way of thinking) would forever be in debt, and thus bound to, his Owner.

just my penny in the pond.

(in reply to selphaware)

Post #: 12

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 1:25:42 PM

stef

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Such debt, whether it was even recognized as such in the legal realm, could be erased simply by declaring bankruptcy.

~stef

_____________________________

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"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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Post #: 13

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 3:11:10 PM

Alexander

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Joined: 12/10/2004
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I beg to differ. there is a contract which can be made legal and require the submissive to satisfy the needs of the dominant be they sexual mental emotional or other wise or the submissive will be subject to fines.

it's called marriage.

quote:

chainedgrlThe only form of contract that would come remotely close is to marry said slave, but then that too can be broken.

DOH!
Alex.

< Message edited by Alexander -- 4/22/2005 3:12:13 PM >

(in reply to stef)

Post #: 14

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 3:12:40 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

I beg to differ. there is a contract which can be made legal and require the submissive to satisfy the needs of the dominant be they sexual mental emotional or other wise or the submissive will be subject to fines.

it's called marriage.

You have heard, love, honor and obey have been taken out of most vows haven't you?

(in reply to Alexander)

Post #: 15

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 3:28:14 PM

ManOwner

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Sacramento, California
Status: offline

We've beaten this horse to death, but I am procrastinating on a project and would rather keep posting here. The problem with a contract that keeps the slave forever in debt in the event of a breach is that a court would not enforce it. As I pointed out earlier, the court would almost certainly find the contract unconscionable and against public policy. As another person said, the law only comes into the picture when one party wants to enforce the contract against the other party, meaning that things have gone bad. So what's the point anyway?

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 16

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 3:37:51 PM

ManOwner

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Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Sacramento, California
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Oh, and another thing. As several of us pointed out in the releated thread entitled The legality of what we do, criminal law does not recognize such a thing as consenting to imprisonment or abuse. So even if contract law did not preclude this kind of arrangement, the dom who tried to hold onto a slave against his will would be committing a crime. And since this contract would in essence be an agreement to break the law, it would be unenforceable under that principle as well.

< Message edited by ManOwner -- 4/22/2005 3:38:44 PM >

(in reply to ManOwner)

Post #: 17

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 4:54:16 PM

tomcat69

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline

where would i find such a women to please men have no concept of women

(in reply to ManOwner)

Post #: 18

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 5:06:17 PM

chainedgirl

Posts: 142
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

You have heard, love, honor and obey have been taken out of most vows haven't you?

actually, you can have them put back in. A marriage service is _your_ service so you have it say whatever you want. People even write their own vowels. So, why not have obey put back in??? i know if i ever marry that is what i will do, but then this can be done in Australia.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 19

RE: legalizing a slave contract - 4/22/2005 5:18:44 PM

SweetDommes

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Joined: 10/5/2004
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wedding vows are not set in stone - they are whatever the people want. We are going to have a JP wedding (if/when we ever marry our boys) and our vows will include "obey" in their part, but not ours ... wonder if the JP will catch it LOL

(in reply to chainedgirl)

Post #: 20

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