RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (Full Version)

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NeedAGoodBoy -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/11/2007 7:39:15 PM)

the last 3 people that posted on this thread, have had wonderful ideas and i might use them, and for those who were wondering why i keep thinking of ideas, is that i like to be prepared, i like to be able to go "oh you did X" then think for 2 seconds, and go "ok you have to do X" instead of having to sit and think for a while



minnetar -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/11/2007 9:40:12 PM)

lol this girl is scared of Master Michael

minnetar



MstrssPassion -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/12/2007 5:12:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedAGoodBoy
he hasnt done anything yet, im just trying to get ideas, and ive told him if he wants 'punishment like actions' then he can just ask for them, or play 'bad' and ill 'play punish' him, just for fun, he doesnt do much stuff thats bad, little to none now that i think about it, but what he does, its not like he forgets to do something, its deeper than a simple mistake, its something he does, that i dont like, and he wants to stop doing it, but he cant on his own, so i need something thatll work that doesnt inspire fear or cause pain

hope that helped



No, not really but I'll take a stab at it...

I use some of those horrible exercises that coach put us through back in high school days as "motivation" to get our sh*t straight. Have you ever laid on the ground & maintained keeping your heels 3 inches off the ground? Or how about "squat thrust"...

There were so many brutal moves that coach put us through... that sadistic bastard... probably why I have such a fond memory of him, why I learned so much from him & apply so much of what he taught me in my life today.

I assure you that you boi will be motivated in a proper way to correct the unwanted behavior when you apply these activities in a corrective sense.



Suleiman -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/12/2007 6:58:29 PM)

For my part, I don't tend to use pain as a form of punishment, largely because I enjoy it WAAY too much, as dom or sub, while my dear beloved wife likes it not at all. I came up with the report card system as a way of giving immediate feedback without breaking scene, and without using methods that might kill her mood. Marriage, after all, is made up of these little compromises. It works quite well. It also gives you time to think about what the eventual punishment is for their infraction, without having to break your stride in mid-scene. For us, while it's never gotten that far (she does wilt so under any note of disapproval from me), three black marks pretty much will end the scene - obviously, the submissive's heart isn't into it, so you may as well stop and send them home for the day.

Remember, when dealing with a potential SAM - negative attention is better than none at all. Time outs, corner time, ending the scene prematurely, and/or short-term dismissal not only reinforce your authority by removal of priveledges, it also forces them to recall that they are willing participants in this game as well, and if they act out, they may be required to go elsewhere. It gives them incentive to either shape up or find a playmate more suitable to their needs.



grlneedstolearn -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/12/2007 9:41:26 PM)

Never underestimate the power of a stern look, sharp word or clear gesture. This is especially true for me. If my Dom gives me a stern look and sharp words i know that what i have done is wrong and most likely i will be punished. Plain and simple as that for me. But yes people have different ways of accepting a punishment.



Hrafnkel -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/13/2007 12:57:39 AM)

Have you tried just telling him you're dissapointed in him?



Celeste43 -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/13/2007 3:13:25 PM)

Write a letter of apology every time he slips up.
Write 100 times I will not ...

However if it's something he's trying to change I would expect that it will take some time to change an old habit. Every time he does it wrong, have him go back and do it the right way.  Not punishment but training.

However it's easier to recommend a specific fix when we know what the problem is. See, if he doesn't always buckle his seat belt then I would recommend him writing on a cardboard box Buckle Up and propping it against the steering wheel when he gets out. If he's supposed to call you at exactly 6:05 and tends to chill out after work and forgets I would recommend him getting a second alarm clock set to buzz loudly at 6:00. Not punishment but specific ways to change the unwanted but ingrained behavior.

However if he's trying to quit smoking, I wouldn't get involved. That one's rough.



Elorin -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/13/2007 6:19:29 PM)

Demerit slips
And a chart you make up before hand that says what each level of demerit slips gets
Like the tickets you get at chuckee cheese.
"Ok, let's see, 8 demerits, that's 1 (write out sentences 500 times) and 3 (stand in corner for 5 minutes)"
Sounds dorky but you can keep demerit slips in your pocket and hand them to the sub, or just show them to him, if he earns one.

And...honest? He can change it. It may be difficult, but he can change it. You can help him do it, but he has to want to, and HE is the one who will change it.



arayofsunshine55 -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (4/13/2007 7:11:03 PM)

Truth be told I have never needed punishment to learn a lesson, I learn things all the time.  Maybe he doesn't either.



BearsBreech -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/11/2007 8:53:25 PM)

HA! I just posted a reply about using the forced feeding of baby food for punishment. One moment that I am particularly proud of is when I managed to get safeworded by my pain pig cub without so much as touching her.

Diapers are effective too. For most submissives, simply wearing one is very humiliating (especially at a party). The less compliant they are, the longer they stay so attired. Something will usually give within eight hours.

Bear



justplainjava -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/11/2007 10:39:48 PM)

Greeting to whom ever

i am probley going to get stomp on here, but i have yet to fine a master/ dom who scares me, even in real life the ones i have meet, can intimated but scare, or anything in some ways i still waiting for the funny part is that is probley the one who i will truely sumbit too ps dont ask me why for that is a good question
oh well life goes on



szobras -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/12/2007 1:01:16 PM)

IMO, I get the feeling that you may be looking at this as: Punishment = teaching. I may be wrong. Though punishment has it's uses for correction, it is certainly not the only way to "Teach"a lesson. Perhaps more focus on teaching would make less need for correction. Ecspecially since there is no offense to associate a specific a lesson to correct specific behavior.



slaveish -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/12/2007 2:43:18 PM)

He hasn't done anything punishable yet but you want some punishments in reserve?

That sounds like punishment enough - the Master has no faith is his boi.

(But I like Suleiman's report card idea.)



slaveish -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/12/2007 2:46:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedAGoodBoy

the last 3 people that posted on this thread, have had wonderful ideas and i might use them, and for those who were wondering why i keep thinking of ideas, is that i like to be prepared, i like to be able to go "oh you did X" then think for 2 seconds, and go "ok you have to do X" instead of having to sit and think for a while



I will tell you as an experienced UM-tender that sometimes having to wait to hear what the punishment will be is more effective than the punishment itself.



earthycouple -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/12/2007 2:54:17 PM)

one person's punishment is another's fantasy....maybe you should discuss with him, his fears.



aldompdx -> RE: Punishment w/o Fear or Pain? (5/13/2007 12:31:50 AM)

First, decide whether your goal of "punishment" is deterrence or reform. If you want to deter behavior, then you must instill fear. This is the american culture method. If you want to reform behavior and encourage correct or improved behavior, then you need to instill reward and fulfillment. Even with the most basic animals, reform tends to work better than deterrent.

1. Role reversal. They must learn control, sufficient to exercise self-control and self-discipline necessary to manifest their conscious choice to surrender. Since a skilled master also understands surrender, it should be a walk in the park to require them to be master for a month -- subject to limits.

2. Isolation. If their actions represent a desire to NOT surrender, then they should not be in the relationship for at least a month. Either choose to be in it, or out of it. Perhaps a month off will help them get clear on that. Part of that process would be to go to therapy, to help them get clear on the source of their motives and desires -- and their failure to manifest that reality.

3. Re-association. Perhaps they would like your to teach their ego a negative association with the "bad" conduct. There are many methods of re-associative training. They are well studied in science, for animal behavior conditioning. Unfortunately, this tends to be a repressive method, rather than one which compells you to become more conscious and aware of your true motives.

4. Memory. A very effective method for creating permanent memories, in the limbic system in addition to the neo cortex (based on brain biology) -- while learning the particular lesson, immerse part or all of their body in ice saltwater for up to 45 seconds.



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