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Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/11/2007 10:13:13 PM   
BondageTopJere


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Joined: 8/22/2006
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I tried to find something along these lines using the search function, but either I wasnt using the right tags, or simply not going back far enough, none struck me as paticularly right.

Essentially, what I would like to know is how much your perception of self changed when between starting your very first D/s relationship and the time your realized you actually were in one?

Thats the gist of it anyways. What I'm trrying to get a sense of with that question is this. After you became aware of BDSM, (and by that I mean knowing the terms and realizing the feelings you had were not unique to yourself, when you first aware that such a thing as"submissive" or "Dominant" existed, and it seemd to fit a great deal with your feelings ),  I would think that a certain amount of time would pass before you would start attempting to begin a relationship using the the D/s dynamic as a basis.  At this point, I would assume that most would have a somewhat defined self-identity, but it would be an empirical one i.e. Youve came up with a pretty good working theory , but you havent actually gotten to the testing it out phase yet.

At some point, ideally a person would enter into D/s relationship.  Be it a qualitative succes, in that you find someone you can live with, not want to strangle on a daily basis, and have some fun and gain satisfaction in the process, or an abysmal failure, where one finds themselves quickly incompatible for one of the million reasons why, there at some point must be some "proving" of the earlier empirical self-identity.  Youve stuck yourself into the fire, and either the metal of who you are was successfully formed and tempered, or your idenity shattered upon meeting hard, cold, reality; in either case something was proven.

The intent of the original question was to.... not so much what changed, but rather how big of a degree was the change if it happened at all.  I realize the scenario is in no way shape or form how everyone came into BDSM, the entries into it are as varied as snowflakes, but since I'm asking this for personal reasons, it would stand to reason that a significant percentage of others on this site would have had something similiar in thier past. 
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RE: Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/11/2007 11:02:01 PM   
MsParados


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Joined: 3/1/2007
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In order to answer this question I would have to create a time line and it really is no different developmentally when compared to normal sexuality, but the activities and feelings were very different than the tradional ones...

8-13 : fantasies involving nonconsentual bondage
13-16 : same fantasies except now there is sex involved
16 :  I found out about bdsm
16- 22 : random relationships all involving some form of kink, about half of which had D/s overtones with me in the D role
at 20 : I made the choice that I could only get involved w/ others like me but this time I wanted to try the s role
24 : after figuring out my swtchiness was more a sadist slave that loves to top; I now knew what I needed in a partner
26 : found someone that meshed, and strangely he was more than I thought I wanted, but ever since he has been my Daddy.

That is the short story, more like the outline, there were a few pitfalls on my poly explorations and a few relationship detours, but even the bad ones helped teach me about myself. If all of that lead up to this, then it was well worth it.
I hope that answered the question.

(in reply to BondageTopJere)
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RE: Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/11/2007 11:33:49 PM   
WhiplashSmile


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Wow.. it's been sort of evolution process.  Because when I first got into BDSM, it was through play activities.  Not as a full blown 24/7 relationship.  It started off with my best friend, the girl next door.  I've come to be more thankful for this friendship the more I'm on this board reading posts from people just getting into BDSM.   So there was a bit of an emotional bond and caring was involved right from the get go for me, along with trust. 

The next stages of evolution was a few year later.  Between playing AD&D and playing guitar in a band.  It exposed me to some people in the lifestyle itself.  I became more aware of things.  Then I started dating the Kinky Girlfriend types, more BDSM play time.  Boyfriend Girlfriend dating type of stuff.   Working out basic relationship dynamics.   Discovering that I really like to be in control of the relationship itself.  Call it Dom selfwareness awakening inside of me.   Dating a few Nilla Girls, and things ending badly because I was too D for them.  Ok, reality check.  I was drawn to dating kinky girls that liked a man to be in control.

Interuption of relationships due to enlistment in the Armed Forces.  Still dating, getting along better with Kinky Girls, Punk rocker looking types, Goth looking types and anybody out of the ordinary.  

Get out of armed forces.  Return back home.  Bingo, kinky girl friend that likes the man in control moves in with me.  Start of first true D/s relationship, many fuck ups in the process and it ends.  Find another kinky sub girl friend, she's not into men having control so it ends.   Next one!  Kinky Girl submissive been in lifestyle enters picture!  Ahhh... met her from having friends in the BDSM lifestyle.  Works for awhile but I'm still a young buck at doing the D/s thing better.  Made some fuckups.. live and learn as they say!  It all comes to an end.   Next relationship.   I was at a party with some friends.  I opened my mouth that I want A new girl friend who's into Rough Kinky Sex... anybody know anyone like that?   Then Oh.. wait yes we do.. but we don't know how well it's going to work.  Little did I know I was being set up with a Domme.   Interesting match!  We stayed together until she had to move away.   Ummm... learned a hell of a lot more about dynamics.   Starting to get something right.   Then Next Kinky Girl friend... Submissive type!  Wow!  I'm getting some thing right.. Whooppps she decides submission is not for her... she talking about how she's been living life in sin.  Seems this one was raised by the Christan Righ Wing... so she wakes up and refinds her religious upbringing again.... Whew.. this is the general process.   A sort of evolution between Vanilla and BDSMers..   The story goes on, but this is a good place to stop.

Did not happen overnight, there are things I'm working on improving in D/s dynamics today even.  It's a never ending process


 
     

(in reply to BondageTopJere)
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RE: Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/12/2007 4:14:17 AM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
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When I first learned the terms I was a newlywed, assumed I was a sub b/c my hubby was a Dom.
It was mostly online chatroom role play and bedroom games.
I wanted more, and then realized that my hubby wasn't a Dom, he was a manipulative asshole who liked cybersex and blowjobs.
I found the chatrooms to be patronizing and chauvinistic.
Took a year of stepping back, reassessing, asking anyone I could how they found their role, how they were sure.
Came out of THAT certain that I was a Domme.
Chat room stuff, and then introduced to the RT scene in San Antonio & Austin, and I was fairly happy as a Top and as a Domme. I had a few things I really liked as a bottom, and found those things were acceptable by those I knew so I didn't stress self identity.
Then I met M, and my self-identity underwent massive overhaul as I found myself wanting to lick his boots. Hmmmm.

Now, I'm content with the fact that I'm a Domme and M's sub.

(in reply to WhiplashSmile)
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RE: Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/12/2007 7:34:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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Actually most people rush as fast as they can into their first relationship once they discover all this.

They still tend to have illusions crash and burn and have a lot of hard knocks to get them straight.

For some it's enough to send them running back to vanilla relationships completely, at least for awhile.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Elorin)
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RE: Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/12/2007 8:08:00 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Joined: 1/7/2007
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What LA said (doesn't everyone get sort of sick saying that?)

My story...

Once upon a time long long ago a new face appeared in a chat room.  Bored with his relationship like so many others he began to look around.  Having had actual sex, good sex in fact, he quickly become bored of the chatroom too.  None of these people seemed to know what real sex was about and had no sense of imagery or what things were supposed to look like.  Wandering the halls of cyber space he ran across a room full of sick perverts who at least had some sense of what things should look like, a sense of imagery and fantasy.  Appalled at the controlling assholes, he played friend and offered many a woman a shoulder to cry on about their newest asshole or Dom as they preferred to be called.

Then one day, as a slave was bemoaning the fact that the Dom they had chosen to serve was such a control freak that he wanted to control what she work, he panicked.  Images from his own life of women he had reduced to tears, real women, over what to wear, how to dress and the exact same things these demented assholes were doing.  Fight or flight, fight or flight….he chose flight, killed the computer and vowed not to touch it again.

Thus began a very long journey of self-exploration, one that isn’t done and one that from every peak new unknown and mysterious vistas are glimpsed.  I took long and hard stock of myself at that point, I could see the threads of control running through my relationships, how I really liked things done my way.  I read a few things on the internet and pronounced myself healthy and dove back in.  This was of course all unknown to my partner.  So months later I broke her heart when she discovered I was cheating on the internet with another woman.  I of course broke it off with the woman on the internet and broke another heart.

She was a wonderful woman and we tried to make things work, played with some D/s and S&M stuff.  She was willing to do anything to please me but I wanted a real submissive.  Part of the problem with doing D/s when you don’t have your shit together is your lower half starts to have control issues.  Since getting my shit together was too hard I instead attacked her.  Eventually I drove that relationship into the ground.

So I walk into the room at the bed and breakfast to find the most lovely creature, all naked and waxed waiting for me.  We had several lovely trysts but she was too young, I was to far away and while we remained friends, it didn’t work out.  However I was off on a running start.  In fact I ran through a number of women.  I also started doing some reading of real non-fiction books on S&M by people who had actually been there and done this stuff.  I started to modify my actions a bit, adopted the whole SSC mantra.  Then I met her, collared her, and fell deeply madly in love.  With a married woman.  Oh what drama.  She was in fact a woman I would never have had the balls to meet, she answered an advertisement of mine.  Short, insecure, and a bit demanding in a uniquely submissive way (remember that, it will be important later) and oh what a glorious woman at the same time.

She was pretty levelheaded and much better at having healthy relationships than I.  We saw various therapists, nothing really helped.  More drama.  However, I was growing and maturing although far far from perfect, a land I had only heard rumors of at that time.  I have always been introspective and new many of my life issues stem from my father.  My therapist often asked about what my relationship was like with my mother and I assured her it was fine.  We talked and did work on my self-image issues I got from my father and other things and I made some progress.  Still plenty of sturm and drang.  Her and I were desperate to make things work and tried many things.  One of which was a sort of plastic egg to keep her quiet.  OH MY FUCKING GOD THAT WAS HOT.  Now one thing I really developed during that period was my inner observer, who sat bolt upright in his chair and screamed “what the hell was that” in reference to my reaction to gagging her.  I thought long and hard about and after a few months decided it was about taking away her power of voice.  That really sat wrong with me but it sure felt true.  It sounded so wrong to want to silence her but again, it sure felt hot.

So I fucked up that relationship too, we don’t even speak.

So, as often happens at the end of a relationship, many of the things your partner was screaming at you or begging you to look at start to sink in and you do some growing.  I certainly did but then again, I had plenty to do and when you start at zero and move to one, that is after all a 100% improvement.

So along comes the next wonderful woman (one thing I am blessed with is that some truly amazing women find something in me worth putting up with me) and this one is a Domme.  We meant to be friends but when she started looking up at me like that (tiny woman again) I just couldn’t help myself and grabbed her and kissed her deeply (and while a pattern, I don’t think the dragging them off to my cave is a bad pattern for me) and we became lovers.  Sturm and drang but unlike my former lover she was calm and things didn’t escalate as quickly or at least didn’t do so as often.  We talked but we also had some ugly ugly fights.   A few years later she talks me into seeing a counselor for anger management.  Oh my god!  He was an amazing man and I threw off that shackle of attacking (emotionally, not physically, but at 6’2 when I am mad it can be scary for the little girls I take as lovers) the ones I love for few others ever see that side of myself.  Six months of intense therapy and while not cured I am quite in control of myself and the relationship blossoms and we spend another blissful year together.  I finally convince her to return to school and get her degree but to do so she has to move three to four hours away.  We make it work for another year, it is hard, we don’t like being apart but through hard work and understanding on my part, I keep her feeling safe, loved, and protected.  Something it had taken me almost 40 years to learn to do with someone I lived with and I was now able to do it to someone who lived way too far away.  I have found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with.

She wants kids and I don’t.  Sad but that ends the relationship but this time we part as dear friends.  I have decided to go to school as well and have chosen to sell my house so I can concentrate on school and not have to work and be able to accept any internship/scholarship I so desire.  I also move in with my mother…

And thus I realize my relationship with my mother is far from perfect.  My god the woman is controlling, full of hidden resentments, anger, unable to calmly and openly discuss things.  Who the hell IS this woman?  Oh yeah, me.  Oh and she is every woman I have ever dated.  Oh shit.  I start to see things.  Now I understand why I live ball gags, it is to silence my mother.  I see why I have trouble asking/demanding the things I want.  More oh shit moments, in fact I seem to be sort of living in an oh shit moment.

Looking at my parents with a bit clearer perspective I see where I have gotten my traits, where some are unadulterated and some are weird combinations of the two, coping mechanisms for another.  Those fucking growth opportunities!

Well I am growing, I realize much about how my dominance works now.  I am controlling because that is how my mother relates to the world as a first born, something I share with her.  It is also why I hate authority and others attempts at controlling me.  That is why I love being a daddy is it isn’t so much controlling as nurturing.  I also realize that is why I have always chosen short partners all the while lusting for tall women.  I used to think it cool that when I imagine my short partners in my head that I always think of them as my height.  I had always interpreted that as my seeing them as equals but now I wonder if I don’t see them as giants and so I pick a small one that when magnified in my mind isn’t overwhelming.

I am not a switch but being able to play in San Francisco, I get to meet some pretty amazing female dominants.  There are one or two I have met that made me feel some subtle undercurrents of “submissiveness” more of needing/wanting to serve them.  I have never acted on it but was curious where it came from.  All the ones who caused this reaction where very calm, very wise and just oozed dominance, but they also had one trait in common, and it was a clear sense of their ability to nurture those they played with.  In living with my mother, as wonderful as she is and as much as I love her I realize that much of it is all about her.  So I think they combined some of the good parts as well as some of the archetypes of my mother but had one thing she lacked, a sense of genuine nurturing with no strings attached, no hidden resentments.

I think one of my most powerful skills as a dominant is my empathy, my ability to get inside someone’s head and see what is going on, even if they can’t.  Well, it is a skill familiar to anyone with alcoholic or abusive parents.  While my parents shared neither of those traits, my mother certainly did have a temper and my childhood was spent trying to sense and predict those outbursts.

Which is why, up till this time, I have always picked fairly demanding partners or at least I let them be demanding and didn’t have the skills to change it.  One of the many reasons I am not seeking a committed partner is I want room to work on and examine all the above, something I find easier if I am not in a committed relationship

So I now have no doubts where my dominance comes from but where it will lead with this new knowledge I have no idea. YMMV

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Change inherent in the first D/s relationship - 4/12/2007 1:21:01 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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With my first D/s long term relationship (and I've only had one), it was like I was offered a mirror that showed me all the scary parts of myself that I had always denied or minimized and I had to confront them for the first time.  With a different, more reflective, partner, it might have been less troubling, but I think the process itself was necessary.  It forced me to confront a lot of things I had never confronted and the year or so after that first relationship was a period of tremendous learning.   The relationship itself lasted about two years, and was little more than a series of mishaps and confusions, but it kicked off a growth process that was very productive and I'm better off because of it.  I've seen my bad side and had to own it.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to BondageTopJere)
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