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Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/12/2007 8:27:08 PM

ownedkitten

Posts: 200
Joined: 4/2/2007
Status: offline

This topic came up on a list I belong to and I was curious as to other's thoughts on the subject:

How many of those in owned/collared/ect long term relationships have discussed the possibility of the (insert your choice of title)'s death preceeding that of the slave/sub?

We are a military couple - and will be serving our country for at least the next 4 years. Being that we, as a country, are "at war" there is a chance that he could deploy and not make it back home to me. We've talked about the possibility from that perspective, as well as just in general since his father died in an accident when he was very young. We are very much aware that life is a fragile thing and can be taken far too early.

What, if any, economic and practical safety measures have been put in place for you?

Master and I are married, so there are certain legal aspects that are covered in that regard - life insurance, ect. We do not have children yet, but hope to someday in the future. From a practical standpoint the biggest change would be I would have to return to working outside of the home. I honestly feel that I would go home to Texas to my family if Master departed this world before me.

What do you think about your master making arrangements to leave you after his demise to another master?

This one I had to ask him about, as we had not covered it yet in our previous discussions. He says that when/if he meets another Master that he trusts enough, he would leave my sister and I in the care of that person to help us through the grieving process. If we desired to belong to that Master than he has no problems with it. However, if it did not work that way then he would want that Master to be our "protector" until we were able to find a more suitable partner.

My sister and I have discussed the possibility of seeking seperate new Masters...and neither of us desires that. We do not feel that losing our Master would seperate our bond to each other and we would want to find someone to serve together - someone who will bless and honor our relationship with each other as Master has. Master is aware of this and says that is what he expected of us if the situation played out that way.

Grace In Service,
caitriona

_____________________________

"I don't mind living in a man's world as long as I can be a woman in it." -Marilyn Monroe

Post #: 1

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/12/2007 9:13:02 PM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedkitten

How many of those in owned/collared/ect long term relationships have discussed the possibility of the (insert your choice of title)'s death preceeding that of the slave/sub?

Ok, I know you asked this in the sub/slave forum but...
My girl is the executor of my estate and is included in my will. she also has a copy of a medical power of attorney which includes a living will should she need it. she is half beneficiary of my life insurance (my mother is the other half) and, if I own any property, it will go to her with the direction that she is to use it to care for those in the household as she can. she also knows my wishes for my memorial service and such. We are a couple. she is my girl...my friend...and I love her. Why would I NOT include her in these things?

I don't feel the need to "pass her on" as it were, although there are slaves out there who really do need this kind of security. Of course, these documents would be drawn up seperate to the "legal will". I'd FIRST check with the intended guardian or proposed owner to see if they would be willing to accept the slave. Then, I'd draw up a document that passed ownership in the event of my death. I'd probably put a clause in there that the slave could refuse the guardianship, though.

Master Fire

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to ownedkitten)

Post #: 2

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/12/2007 11:18:59 PM

RowanJ

Posts: 27
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline

I draw a fine line as a submissive. I will never be totally dependent on anyone besides myself. Last Saturday, my Dom of two years attacked me out of anger, and because of this He was arrested and served a mandatory restraining order, even though I did not ask for it. It feels like He really is dead to me. We aren't allowed to contact one another. I am now going through counseling, and my therapist has told me that, since I spent two years being completely devoted to Him, I am now going to have to create a completely new life. Luckily, I already had a modeling/acting/dancing career, and a job teaching martial arts, in place, so that I can at least financially support myself during these hard times. I am depressed, sick, sleep-deprived, and recovering from anorexia at this point, as well as physically injured, but I am not dead. And that is because I provided for myself, just in case.

Hope this helps,
Rowan

(in reply to ownedkitten)

Post #: 3

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/12/2007 11:35:38 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedkitten

This topic came up on a list I belong to and I was curious as to other's thoughts on the subject:

How many of those in owned/collared/ect long term relationships have discussed the possibility of the (insert your choice of title)'s death preceeding that of the slave/sub?

We discuss this often. He is considerably older than me and not in perfect health. He will likely leave this earth before I do. He has taken great measures to ensure I have been taught to cope and prosper after his death.

quote:

What, if any, economic and practical safety measures have been put in place for you?

He has taught me, and continues to teach me, skills and knowledge that will get me through this life without him. He will own me from the grave and I will continue to obey his will long after he goes. He has sent me back to school to finish my degree, and has taught me to make good decisions for myself, to excel at work, and to invest wisely. While I will miss him more than I can begin to comprehend, and while I would likely rather follow him to his grave, I am not allowed that, and am required to remain strong and do him proud.

quote:

What do you think about your master making arrangements to leave you after his demise to another master?

We have spoken of this and it is something he has thought of, assuming he knew/found someone he felt was appropriate to own me. So far he has not encountered someone he would consider. In my heart and mind, he will always own me, though. Should he give me to another, he will still own part of me. If he does not give me away, I will likely not become owned by another, as I will still consider myself owned by him.

(in reply to ownedkitten)

Post #: 4

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 4:00:16 AM

MissyRane

Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline

I'd deal with it exactly like vanilla couple deals with it. There's no difference.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 5

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 4:26:51 AM

MistressMelissa

Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedkitten

How many of those in owned/collared/ect long term relationships have discussed the possibility of the (insert your choice of title)'s death preceeding that of the slave/sub?

Greetings,

Much depends upon the individual relationship and the intensity of the bonds. The deeper the level of dependency between the two, the harder it will be without the other. While I expect to out live my girl it is a concern that has been planned for, but I probably need to look deeper into that. In the past I have been asked if I would accept another's slave should something happen to them. While I might not be that slaves "love master" I can maintain them in the structured environment they need to feel protected and help get them back on their feet. Whether they stayed in my service or we found the slave a new home, does not matter provided the slave is cared for and finds peace after the passing of their previous master.

I do thing it would be comforting for you two if you and your sister slave would be able to stay together. A potential "backup master" should understand and support that choice.

_____________________________

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. - Ancient Wisdom

(in reply to ownedkitten)

Post #: 6

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 8:07:15 AM

viperess

Posts: 290
Joined: 11/6/2006
Status: offline

Greetings,
When i was in service to my first Master, He and His brother who was (He died the first of the year) had an agreement between Them. If anything happened to one of Them the Other would step in and take Their slaves into Their home either to serve Them or to help them in finding a new home in which to serve. While we did not expect anything to happen as we were both younger, He died in a motorcycle accident we were in and as a result i went to His brother. For me it was the right thing to do as after being with Master John for 5 years i was in no shape to properly take care of myself for a period of time. If not for the thinking of my Master and Master Jonas i feel i would not have cared to make it past that time in my life.
Respectfully,

_____________________________

viperess slave of BlackTarnHeart
heart and chain sister to velvetvixen68

(in reply to MistressMelissa)

Post #: 7

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 10:02:18 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

My Master amd Mentor died so i lost both it was hard but i was always taught to tace care of yourself so i did it was very hard after my Mentor died so i was glad i had niUM's cause i coulf barely take care of myself. I can take care of myself but i love to be taken care of.

Master and i have no provisions if he passes away i would be totally devastated but i would carry on because i know tha is what he would want. he is helping me with school. I am not worried financiallyi will be ok there emotionally i would be a basket case for a while.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to viperess)

Post #: 8

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 12:09:19 PM

Aubre

Posts: 478
Joined: 12/9/2004
Status: offline

I think that slaves may have an expectation that since they are considered property that an allowance be made in the event of the owner's death, they would go to another pre-designated owner. Kind of how you would do with a pet.

If someone doesn't think of themselves as a slave (i.e. property) I can't imagine it would be any different than a normal relationship.

(in reply to viperess)

Post #: 9

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 2:29:59 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissyRane

I'd deal with it exactly like vanilla couple deals with it. There's no difference.

I disagree with this. Although most subs/slaves have the skills to live independently, they frequently have different emotional ties, sometimes dependancies, making it like losing your partner at the same time as losing your parents before moving out.

In that case, providing continuity so they don't have to relearn how to live by themselves is important, and arranging to have a suitable and trusted Dom take care of them until they are well enough to stand on their own (or choose a Dom for themselves, possibly the one that's been taking care of them) seems prudent. Alternately, passing them on, ideally with a get-out clause, would work in this regard.

(in reply to MissyRane)

Post #: 10

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 4:32:03 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

How many of those in owned/collared/ect long term relationships have discussed the possibility of the (insert your choice of title)'s death preceeding that of the slave/sub?

It is very much a discussion that has and does occur in my relationships with both alandra and kyra.

quote:

What, if any, economic and practical safety measures have been put in place for you?

Simply… The funeral and burial costs have been paid for and mostly arranged for both myself and alandra. At present, this has been done for kyra… however, I already know what arrangements are necessary and they will be done when kyra has moved here. Presently, her parents will legally be responsible and when she moves here the proper legal documents can be drawn up give me that responsibility.

Also… I have significant Life Insurance that protects the current living standards if either I or alandra should die. This is mostly a protection for the young ones in the family. When the young are not so young this protection will beable to be reduced to a point. However, I will always have life insurance for myself to protect the girls standard of living that I wish them to enjoy.

quote:

What do you think about your master making arrangements to leave you after his demise to another master?

If I ever met a person that earned the complete respect and admiration of myself and my two girls… then maybe I will consider it. However, I do not see this as necessary. My girls are very capable of fending for themselves. They don’t need me in their life… but they do want me there. Sure, it will be hard without me as it will be harder without them. But, I am confident that my girls will do fine in the end. They have each other to draw upon. They also have a few incredible friends that will be there for them, just as we three would be there for our friends.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 4/13/2007 4:41:39 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ownedkitten)

Post #: 11

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 4:37:45 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

I disagree with this. Although most subs/slaves have the skills to live independently, they frequently have different emotional ties, sometimes dependancies, making it like losing your partner at the same time as losing your parents before moving out.

This is not a D/s thing... it's a people thing... there are more than a few individuals in this world that have deep dependency issues and it has nothing to do with this lifestyle. There are more than a few strong healthy individuals that don't need to be dependent on another person to live a fulfilling life.

It should be approach considering the needs and wants of the given situation. Just like any other person would in any other lifestyle

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 12

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 6:06:07 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

my Lord Fallcon passed away this last dec 25 after a short battle with cancer. emotionally, it was/is devistating. he was insistant that i NOT be alone, and put myself out there to find someone else. that's the only thing i'm grateful for, that he and i had that last 4 months to say all the things that needed said, make sure we were good with one another, with any things he wished done, etc.

i'm married but not to him. so i've been taken care of, no issues there. and i've found Sir/Daddy so i'm not alone anymore. but there is always going to be a now-empty Fallcon shaped place in my heart.

kitten, who is still quietly mourning.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 13

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 6:17:10 PM

BOUNTYHUNTER

Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

I am 60 she is 42 so I try to make sure she will have every thing shes needs if and when I leave her behind..bounty

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 14

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 8:38:04 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

It should be approach considering the needs and wants of the given situation. Just like any other person would in any other lifestyle

Perhaps I misread her, then. My point wasn't that it shouldn't be handled individually, just that some people have lifestyle preferences that lend themselves to developing potential issues with this. And that some of the relationships I've seen in D/s take the emotional ties further than most, if not all, vanilla relationships I've seen. YMMV. I'm quite open to the posibility of having been exposed to an unrepresentative sample.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 15

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 9:07:35 PM

SirHedonicsslave

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/6/2006
Status: offline

Master is 25 years and 3 days older than me, so, yes, we have discussed the possibility. No provisions have been made yet, except that Mistress has said that should something happen to Him, She would make sure that my short ones and i would be taken care of. They have discussed the idea of making me a partial beneficiary to Him, as well as Her.

If something happened to either or both of Them, yes, i would be ok....i would mourn, but then know that i have to go on with life. I have an "odd" outlook as i see death as a part of life, i spent 15 years in EMS and have seen death in all it's various states.....the old, the young....the wealthy, the poor.....those that are ready and those that fight it to the bitter end... but the thing is, death doesn't discriminate and it doesn't care if you're ready.

As far as leaving me to another Master....i don't see that happening....i have friends that are Masters that if i needed them, they would be there for me....but i don't think i would want to be handed off to another.

(in reply to ownedkitten)

Post #: 16

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 9:49:59 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aubre

I think that slaves may have an expectation that since they are considered property that an allowance be made in the event of the owner's death, they would go to another pre-designated owner. Kind of how you would do with a pet.

If someone doesn't think of themselves as a slave (i.e. property) I can't imagine it would be any different than a normal relationship.

personally, he considers me property, i consider myself property, but i can't conceive of any particular situation (that i know of, based on how well i know him) where he would transfer ownership of me to someone else. i functioned as an unowned slave before we got together; i'll function as an unowned slave in the event of death, release, what have you. this, to me, is similar to saying that slaves can't be released - only bought, sold, traded. that doesn't really enter into the equation (for us, which made it difficult to answer the hypothetical on the hard limits thread), although i don't see it as making me any less property.

in response to the original questions:

currently, there aren't any provisions, mainly because we aren't yet married and don't yet live together. we don't have any legal entanglements in that department; if he passed away, his biological family would be in charge of what happened. once we do get married, i expect arrangements will be made suitable to our situation and what he thinks is necessary.

as far as what goes where, if we had a house together or something, i imagine it would go to me, and there are possessions of his i know his family wouldn't want that i'd want to have...but other than that, i am perfectly happy with decisions and other property going to his family. i dealt with enough backstabbing, stealing, stupidity, and lying with my step-parents after my parents' deaths that i want to be involved as little as possible with any probate issues.

honestly, it's something i try not to think about too often. emotionally, it scares me, and although i know i would be okay, i still worry a lot about it, especially because of the age gap. overall, though, he expects me to be self-sufficient. he expects me to be self-sufficient now, he would expect it if he passed away. sometimes he expects it more than i want to be it, but i am anyway.

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Aubre)

Post #: 17

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/13/2007 10:39:28 PM

xethnkitten

Posts: 44
Joined: 1/6/2007
Status: offline

My Master, Xeth, and I have discussed this situation a little. As his wife, I will grieve the loss of my soulmate and the father of my children. As his subbie, I'm not sure what I will do. Most of all , I will lean on the support of family and friends until I am able to function on my own. As to going to another, we have not discussed this as of yet, nor am I sure that we know of someone who would be comfortable dealing w/ a grieving woman (and her kids).

Thought provoking questions. Thanks ownedkitten.

(in reply to hisannabelle)

Post #: 18

RE: Life After (Re: Owners/Dom/Master's Death) - 4/14/2007 6:01:05 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
I've seen in D/s take the emotional ties further than most, if not all, vanilla relationships I've seen. YMMV. I'm quite open to the posibility of having been exposed to an unrepresentative sample.

D/s doesn't hold the monopoly on closer emotional ties.... I have seen no particular lifestyle hold a monopoly in this regard.....

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 19

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