RE: demoted from slave? (Full Version)

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TemptingNviceSub -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 5:22:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Well since you've been demoted from a slave, I'd make it clear he was demoted from being a master. Quite honestly, he never asked you to do anything, he won't let you discuss it, he isn't capable of training a slave. I wouldn't submit anymore and make it clear to him. That means that since he wanted me an equal, I would have no problem constantly saying "Since you're up, would you get me a ..." He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Oh, and since I wasn't a real submissive I wouldn't agree to him seeing anyone else.

But I don't submit to people I can't respect. And someone who would blame all his shortcomings on me is certainly someone I wouldn't respect.
I have to agree with this statement..especially the last paragraph...I am sorry OP that you have a big decision to make now..I wish you the best..Tempting



lovewithoutfear -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 5:38:31 PM)

"If it was me, I would be hurt because I would be hearing, '"I like you, but you can't possibly meet my needs.' "

That's what I would hear too, and on top of that, "I've arrived at this conclusion that defines you, and made decisions based on it, over a period of time without telling you till now." 

Ugh.  At least one other person has said this Master seems a bit passive-aggressive -- and I concur. 

To the OP, I wish you luck, and courage to make the best decision.

Peace
JoyfulYes
lovewithoutfear




talibahh -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 5:46:47 PM)

To the OP and without having read any other replies yet:
 
my first impression of what you write here, from the information provided is that the problem lies in Him. To me it appears as if he is trying to make you and what you are, fit into his fantasies of what it is that he ultimately wants. That he has not been totally open and upfront with you to begin with, with what it is that HE wants.
 
Sounds to me like he is giving you compliments to get you to go along with him and his desires, and yet critisizing you that you are not a slave, only because what he WANTS you to be, (and has from the beginning by the sounds of it in not giving you any orders to follow in the first place!) but what HE wants you to be is a top to another slave, so he can enjoy watching you Domme her, etc.
 
Now being poly, there is nothing wrong with this in my eyes AS LONG AS ALL people involved are open and upfront with what they want and are looking for in the first place! Which to me, sounds like he is not.
 
IMH view... i would be asking is this guy really a Master? Because to me, Master's dont go manipulating what or who people are or circumstances like this, in view of getting what they ultimately want (and yes, i know a Master can use manipulation to get a slave to do something... but not like this... being dishonest in the first place). A Master is upfront and open with what He wants and seeks and has the patience and self discipline to wait for it and to seize it when it presents itself and the time is right, and the people are right... NOT trying to make square peggs fit into round holes because he cant be bothered waiting for it to happen! If that makes any sense [:-]
 
imho... lots are Doms and can be Doms... few are really Master's and are Master's of Themselves first. HUGE difference between the two in MY eyes [;)]
 
ok... end of rant!
 
That's just my take on the info provided... and this is only one side of the story provided i know... but its the vibe i got from what i read.
 
my advice to you, would be to do some inner searching and be honest with yourself about who YOU feel you are and what it is that YOU want and need... and then ask yourself does this Dom offer you that? If not, cut your losses, be patient and go after what YOU want! Be happy in your service [:)]
 
hugs, i wish you luck,
tali [:)]



lovewithoutfear -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 6:03:43 PM)

"until this relationship is worked out and stable it is proably not a good idea to bring in a third. "

Oh, yes, I agree with this!  Poly is hard enough to do and requires communication and respect.  I don't think those are present in the OP's situation.

Peace
JY
lovewithoutfear



MagiksSlave -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 7:00:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveish

This makes my heart hurt. I am sorry, cordelia. ~sad eyes~ I wish I could muster some outrage or advice but all I can do is feel pain for you. I wish you well.


I know I have read this thread 4 times and all I want to do is cry I know Id be crushed and then probubly out of the relationship... this thread just makes me want to go cling to Master!!!!!!!

Magik's slave



SirHedonicsslave -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 7:48:02 PM)

Not sure if this has been said, but something i can't help but wonder about....

If he's demoted you from slave....and you're now only a bedroom sub/slave to him......how can he fobid you from discussing this any further?   Seems to me he has taken away his own right to do that....but that's just my opinion.




amberhalo -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 7:49:08 PM)

>>>one was in a relationship where one could never 'meet His needs'.  What this meant was that He did not know how to own a slave; He did not know how to Master a slave, He did not wish to put forth any effort, did not wish to learn or grow.  So it was easier for Him to blame it on this one than accept any responsibility Himself<<<<

i agree with this and what alot of others have expressed meaning the same ...my former master had the same pattern ..
it ended few years later...
amber




catize -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 8:00:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lythe

It seems to me that you two are having communication problems.  I think not talking about it is the worst thing you can do at this point though since you are forbidden to bring it up it seems you are a bit stuck.  


Actually, since he told her she's only a bedroom sub, then she has no reason to obey any more. He's only a bedroom dom too. And therefore he can't forbid her to do or so anything.

^ …….what she said! 
You have not been demoted, you have been promoted.  That means outside the bedroom, you get to talk about whatever you want/need to.  You get to say anything you want to.  You get to do whatever you want.
I will refrain from making suggestions (my tongue is bleeding!).



MagiksSlave -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 9:33:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ohh this could tern out to be rather interesteing. With her starting to now act as only a bedroom slave (meaning they are equal outside of the bedroom) and takeing contoll back outside the bedroom which incliudes her ability to talk about what she needs to talk about when she needs to talk about it...

AKA what he demanded her not to talk about, becasue under his own new wishes and rules he cant really do that now can he (he shot himself in the foot) also means you no longer need to do a lot of things you used to do, little things that went unnotised by him (and shame on him for this) Like getting him things doing things like extra chores waiting on him you know regular service stuff.. Stop doing them!

He doesnt want you to he said so himself he wants you to be just a bedroom slave.. after a while of haveing lost all the things that did actually make you the slave he didnt deem fit to apreceate will come to bite him in the ass and he will see just how slave like you actually where, befor he deemed you not so. And there for demeaning all the work you did as a slave... I think then he will be singing another tune.. and when he starts singing you can sing him another one hopefully one of my favorates "So long fair well alviderzane adue"

You deserve better then to be devalued as he has done to you... and not beeing aloud to talk about it is him trying to play Master to someone just moments ago he said wasnt a slave and there for  has no obligation to listen and not talk about said thing anymore... He sounds like a very confused person not ready for a single slave let alone a secent... Just my opinion


Magik's slave



MagiksSlave -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/13/2007 9:41:29 PM)

GRR double post


Magiks annoyed comfused slave



subsa -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/14/2007 4:44:32 AM)

many of you seem to be asking her to go against who she staes she is ( in my opinion).  she seems to be saying that she wants to be His; she identifies as slave.  as i stated before this is an opportunity to clarify what each wants/needs from the relationship.  if she becomes this Dominant thing outside of the bedroom i think she's only confirming His fears (that she's not a 'real' slave).  through communication, hopefully, they can come to some resolution and get past what i think could be fear on His part. perhaps He's a fairly new Dom and needs encouragment to take the control.   i think her being forceful is only going to make both of them unhappy. 



LeatherBentOne -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/14/2007 4:56:34 AM)

In my opinion, any "Master" who doesnt/cant voice their needs and give clear, succinct guidance is leaving you to your own devices and has no leverage in the relationship.  How can you feel like a slave when you dont know what pleases or displeases your Master?  No wonder why youre confused.

Either this guy doesnt know what hes doing, is too lazy to put forth the effort of what he should do, or is looking for an excuse to make your relationship one of sex only and is looking for another so he can have access to both of you under the guise that you top her to make the idea of adding another more acceptable to you if he gives you his job.

Smells a bit fishy to me.



Devilslilsister -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/15/2007 7:25:59 PM)

i'd be so hurt, i'd be pissed off.  "Not a slave?  Well good!  Let me tell you a few things........."

and you can always go on to say that since he is looking to find another to be a slave........ you are going to look for another to have as a Master....

I'd demote him to boyfriend..... if that...... 



CuriousLord -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 5:00:09 PM)

(Only OP read)

I can understand why you feel like it's a demotion.  For me, these sorts of things normally are.  I see a Master/slave relationship are more intimate than a Dom/sub relationship, and I have told slaves before that they're being demonted to being a sub after they've failed me, typically by lying and disobeying on a regular basis, but not to an extent quite great enough to justify completely doing away with them.  Many of them, I offer the chance to perform well as a sub, and that they may gain back the title of "slave".

This said, I can also see where he's coming from.  He probably sees your relationship, no matter what it's called, as a Dom/sub relationship, and he says there's no loss of relationship in acknowledging this in changing the titles.

So, it's point of view, and you're going to have to see whose is more based in reality.  -Are- you a slave?  -Is- he a Master?  Since I'm unable to see the situation for myself from here, one of two things seems likely to me.
From his point of view:
-You're not really a slave, but a sub being called a slave.
..or..
-You're a slave, but he's been more of a Dom than a Master, lacking the desire to use you to a slave extent, and, thus, is treating you as a sub.  (He may just want to bee a Dom now.)

Anyhow, that's my two cents from the OP.



amiciaN -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 6:06:55 PM)

(general comment using fast reply)

I read this thread with increasing sadness.  No one has challenged the idea of being 'demoted' from slave.  How many times have we all heard that there is no 'hierarchy of submission'?  Yet isn't that exactly what is being reinforced here?  One person's value in a relationship is not measured by how much they submit or dominate.  The only real measure of a relationship is if it meets the needs of the people involved.  Yes, there are different 'types' of submissives, just as there are different types of doctors.  Personally, I would not want to go to a poditrist for plastic surgery, but the plastic surgeon won't be nearly as effective if my feet are killing me, no matter how submissive the plastic surgeon may be able to make my bank balance be.  To my mind there is no hierarchy, everything is lateral.  For me to say otherwise is to demean those relationships where those involved are completely fulfilled by sexual submission and dominance.

I do agree with the postion that others have taken regarding discussing this with your partner.  By re-defining his role in the relationship, i.e., Bedroom Dom, you have every right to discuss this in spite of his 'order'.  He cannot have it both ways and he has to decide what he really wants from your relationship.  You also have to decide what you need and if those needs can be met in this relationship.  And for the sake of all that is sane, ethical, moral, reasonable, and responsible, do NOT bring an innocent third party into the relationship unless and until it proves over time to be stable again.

As always this is only my opinion, ymmv, but I wish more people would use lifestyle labels only as descriptions, not value judgements on the person being described.


(edited for grammar)



Rayne58 -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 6:11:36 PM)

Hmmmmmm......so my Dom/sub relationship is less valued than a "Master/slave" one? Also please explain how my relationship is considered to be less intimate?

I have no desire to be known as a slave. The idea of being considered someone's property presses hot buttons for me, having come out of an emotionally abusive vanilla marriage to a jealous possessive domineering man.

I find much joy in serving my Dom both in and out of the bedroom. Is that service of less value because it comes from a sub? [sm=confused.gif]

IMO there's way too much emphasis put on labels in this lifestyle. [sm=rolleyes.gif] [/rant]



CuriousLord -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 6:29:48 PM)

I wouldn't say it's less valuable to someone who perfers it, and I don't think I directly said that.  From me, you may, correctly, get the vibe that a Dom/sub relationship is less valuable in my personal life.  This is because I sharply perfer a Master/slave relationships, and a Dom/sub is sort of- in my view- a compromise between M/s and vanilla.

This said, if your Dom wants a sub more than a slave, in your personal relationship, the Dom/sub dynamic could more more valuable of the options.

Still, to a slave- someone who wishes to serve and be controlled to a high degree, to be owned- no longer being owned is, in some sense, equivalent to being dumped.  The poor OP'r went from, it seems, a 24/7 slave to a bedroom sub.  That's just a small step from becoming vanilla!  It's a radical shift in dynamic, and, for her, it's a bad one.



CuriousLord -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 6:34:38 PM)

To be a sub is to be controlled, or guided, but not owned.  For someone who takes pride in being another's property, it is a demotion.

Not too much over one and a half centuries ago, in the American South, people were taken from Africia and forced into slavery.  As I understand it, the majority, if not the vast majority, weren't exaclty pleased with this, going from what may've been a vanilla life to a slave's life.  For them, this was a demotion of social role.  Why?  They didn't want it.

My point being.. vanilla, sub, slave.. there isn't an innate value to each role.  It's what's desired.  For the OP'r, the slave role was desired.  She lost it.  That's a demotion of interests.  One who wants to be vanilla, forced to be a sub, or a sub, forced to be a slave, would also be a demotion of interests.



Mustardseed -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 7:42:35 PM)

The way I read this, it sounds like this guy is suggesting that he is a Master (in that, he could handle an entirely different woman) and that he's somehow intimidated enough by the OP that he can't bring himself to give her an order. This leads me to wonder why he owned/collared her in the first place. [8|] Shouldn't a Master already know if they're comfortable with the order/obedience dynamic they have with a slave before claiming ownership?

I agree with the sentiment that such a chance could be viewed as a "demotion" if it's not what the person whose status is changing wants. Personally, I don't hold Tops, Masters, Owners, etc in any particular hierarchical esteem, and the same goes for Bottoms, Submissives, Slaves, and so on. If they're where they want to be, great! It's the fit, not the title, that concerns me.

If the OP's former Master was reluctant to give her orders, but could do so with the "right woman," I agree that he seems to be projecting his own failure to be straightforward and communicate well onto the OP. Not her problem.

This could be an excellent time to step back from this relationship and see if this pattern has shown up in any other branches of their interaction.



Wildnfreehrt2004 -> RE: demoted from slave? (4/16/2007 8:06:50 PM)

How much experience does he have being a Master?


Wildy



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