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A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 8:57:18 AM   
PenelopePitstop


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Hello everyone. I'm new.

My problem is, that although I've been aware of my submissive nature for a very long time, I can never quite shake the feeling of guilt I have for being this way. I've had a succession of boyfriends who basically implied there was something wrong with me, and I live in a very remote town in the UK where there is little chance for me to express myself anyway.

I guess it stems from my "nice girls don't do that" upbringing and it causes me a world of pain. I guess this is how gay people must have felt years ago...

I just wondered, do any other submissive ladies struggle with this, or if there are any mantras I can give myself just to avoid feeling so...well...bad inside?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:06:24 AM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline 		There is a certain amount of guilt that I feel for engaging in BDSM activities. Being a Catholic the only thing that they agree with is that wives should be submissive to their husbands, everything else is totally taboo and a "sin"
What I do may not work for everyone, but it does work for me. I just tell myself that if God had not intended me to be this way then I wouldn't be. I was made this way for a reason, I just don't know that reason yet.
Just realize that you are who you are and there is a purpose out there for you, sometimes you just don't know what it is yet.

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:12:22 AM   
PenelopePitstop


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Thanks for the quick reply.

I think you've hit a random nail on the head there, I do have a spiritual conflict - I'm a Quaker. But your advice holds true. Thank you :)

(in reply to siamsa24)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:20:35 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The Owner's primary is a Quaker, she has some issues as well.

I've found one thing to do is make friends in the scene. THEY are good people aren't they? And yet they do all sorts of things.

Me? I'm a slut, a whore, I can cause pain and do all sorts of nasty things...but I'm a great person to know and helpful and kind and all that other nice stuff.

Lots of people in the scene feed off of their guilt, they get off on it "being nasty" or "being naughty" and it can make things more intense. This might be an outlet for you.

But ultimately, the best thing to work on is realizing that societies rules are not YOUR rules, you shouldn't accept them just because that's how you were told to do things. Analyze EVERY rule, and if you choose it for yourself, do so because it fits who YOU are. There isn't "good girls do this so if you don't do this you aren't a good girl." Break yourself out of the old rules.

Being who you are is one of the hardest things to be...but with enough practice, we can all do it.

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:23:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I've had a succession of boyfriends who basically implied there was something wrong with me, and I live in a very remote town in the UK where there is little chance for me to express myself anyway.


beth experienced this exact same reaction with her boyfriends and even her ex-husband. Lucky for me she stayed faithful to herself and was strong enough to not accept their condemnation. she kept looking and was uncompromising. Until you find your counterpart try not to accept someone else's idea of what a "good girl" should be or do. The problem lies with them - not you. Stay true to you!

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:28:16 AM   
PenelopePitstop


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		Ah you lovely people. Thank you!

I need to be less defeatist in general.

_____________________________

Wickedness is a myth created by good people to account for the curious attractiveness of others ~ Oscar Wilde

"You had me at Goodbye"

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:37:25 AM   
selphaware


Posts: 20
Joined: 10/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PenelopePitstop

Hello everyone. I'm new.

My problem is, that although I've been aware of my submissive nature for a very long time, I can never quite shake the feeling of guilt I have for being this way. I've had a succession of boyfriends who basically implied there was something wrong with me, and I live in a very remote town in the UK where there is little chance for me to express myself anyway.


hi, penelope...

i'm sorry you're struggling, and sorrier still that your former partners made things even worse for you.

you asked about mantras...the one i try to live by is the notion that if what i am doing is not harming anyone else non-consensually...then it is okay. if, in addition to that, it makes me feel happy and fulfilled, no matter how odd "society" as a whole might view it...then it is beyond okay -- it is good and beneficial and often even beautiful.

guilt is hard -- i come from a jewish background, and we know a thing or two about instilling guilt in children as they grow -- but your needs and desires for submission are not "bad." you won't erase a lifetime of programming overnight, but i'd suggest reminding yourself that you are not harming anyone else with your wishes, that there are *plenty* of other people out here who sympathize and resonate, and that allowing yourself to experience your submissive side could be the greatest thing you'll ever do. sounds like you'll have to work on either the guilt you feel when opening up to your submission, or the longing you feel when you suppress it...personally, i'd recommend opening up and taking on the guilt -- it can be hard, but the benefits can be incredible, and can far outweigh the slight relief of feeling like you "fit in to society" or that you're "being good."

all easier said than done, i know -- best of luck to you!

selphaware



(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:40:54 AM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PenelopePitstop

Hello everyone. I'm new.

My problem is, that although I've been aware of my submissive nature for a very long time, I can never quite shake the feeling of guilt I have for being this way. I've had a succession of boyfriends who basically implied there was something wrong with me, and I live in a very remote town in the UK where there is little chance for me to express myself anyway.

I guess it stems from my "nice girls don't do that" upbringing and it causes me a world of pain. I guess this is how gay people must have felt years ago...

I just wondered, do any other submissive ladies struggle with this, or if there are any mantras I can give myself just to avoid feeling so...well...bad inside?


Interesting analogy Penelope. I was aware of my feelings too, for a long time, didn't really act on them deliberately, although a couple of boyfriends went with them a little bit (they probably didn't know there was a name for it either! lol). Then I met my Master and he explained it to me.

I was ambivalent at first; I'm a strong person and it all seemed to be a bit of an affront to my conception of myself as a strong person. I remember saying to him on the phone after our first meeting that realizing there's a name to it and that's what I am was kind of coming to the realization that I was gay (which I'm not, just submissive <G>, not that there's anything wrong with being gay either). It is a big step to accept. Once you do it's way cool .

There is nothing wrong with you; don't feel bad inside. When you met the right person it will come together and you will feel the peace that many of us do! In the meantime you have us .

cello

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:45:15 AM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: selphaware
guilt is hard -- i come from a jewish background, and we know a thing or two about instilling guilt in children as they grow --


selphaware, as a fellow Jew may I offer the following joke (well, it's for everyone else too!)

What is the difference between an Italian mother and a Jewish mother?

The Italian mother says "if you don't eat everything on your plate I'll kill you!"

The Jewish mothers says "if you don't eat everything on your plate I'll kill myself!"



Happy Pesach to everyone!

cello

(in reply to selphaware)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 10:17:25 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
Greetings Penelope and welcome to the board.

Many struggle with the 'rights and wrongs' of BDSM. Social, religious and even some educational aspects have placed pigeonholes for certain groups and minorities.

I would consider myself an extremely spiritual person. I fought with my feelings and needs as they conflicted with what I had come to believe I knew. But what I didn't know, at that time, was who I was.

People place their own ideals and perfections on others. Its something that happens sometimes, without people even realising. I found that it wasn't until I sat down with myself and found out what made me tick, and why it did, that I could realise the freedom of being me.

Knowledge is wonderful. There are so many restraints and complications placed on us as people, that we sometimes forget that we have the ability to learn much more. Knowledge brings freedom... it doesn't always bring the answers we want, but it can free us from our fears.

Peace and love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 10:31:23 AM   
selphaware


Posts: 20
Joined: 10/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK
selphaware, as a fellow Jew may I offer the following joke (well, it's for everyone else too!)...



good one, cello!! and pretty frighteningly accurate...

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 2:34:03 PM   
darlingjade


Posts: 54
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		My ex liked to tell me that I was selfish in my needs because it's not in me to Top(once we started playing it turned out that he was almost as submissive as I am).

As for the guilt? Grrr. Well, the initial fantasies at a young age I learned to deal with over time. Acting on them brought a different kind of guilt. One that I learned to deal with once I realized that I was doing far more harm to myself when I was subconsciously choosing the men in my life because they seemed to have dominant characteristics. Unfortunately, they tended to be more abusive than dominant. So, for me, embracing my nature is the healthier choice. These days when guilt tries to rear it's ugly head all I really have to do is consider a couple past relationships to steady myself.

(in reply to selphaware)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 4:16:51 PM   
PenelopePitstop


Posts: 254
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		I love the feedback I'm getting here, and it's only my first day. Why didn't I do this sooner?

You're so right, DarlingJade. I too have found myself picking men who I suppose I saw as 'responsible and in control = dominant' and they all turned out to be HORRIBLE. I'm afraid I had a real bad experience with one who was, well, violent and he used to tell me I ought to enjoy him hitting me. I'm just quite afraid of being taken advantage of again. I've already had a few site emails through, and I've turned them down because things just don't work that way for me. At best I'm hoping I can make friends here and if the cosmos determines something to happen, then it will. I'm very. very suspicious but I just know that I don't want to die never having known if there was a counterpart to myself. I keep seeing signs that there might be...


_____________________________

Wickedness is a myth created by good people to account for the curious attractiveness of others ~ Oscar Wilde

"You had me at Goodbye"

(in reply to darlingjade)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 5:15:51 PM   
chainedgirl


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		Hi penelope,

i've been a submissive/slave for about 5 years now. i had a few issues at the start, not because of religious upbringing but because i lived through my mother's abusive marriage. It all boils down to this is what i WANT, not put up with as she did.

As for boyfriends, well, its simply a matter of you are not what they needed at that time and they were not what you needed, simple. There is no shame about not being a match with a prospective partner. If they were not mature enough to cope with that and had to resort to name calling/labelling, that is their issue, not yours.

As for me now, i'm a happily collared slave. i also work with young children as a child care worker. i also happen to like humiliation, exhibitionism, flogging and a variety of other delightful things. Doesn't make me bad or sad or weird, just me.

all the best with finding your One.

chained girl

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/22/2005 9:28:43 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I just wondered, do any other submissive ladies struggle with this,


I felt that way at first and that's one reason i was afraid to tell Hubby of my needs for a long time.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/23/2005 6:24:33 PM   
wetsub000


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Welcome Penelope, it's a wonderful journey we're all on here.

I have to say that discovering my submission has had the opposite effect. When I was in a vanilla relationship I was made to feel guilty about my very sensual, submissive nature. Now when I'm acknowledging this is who I am and participating in play or a relationship as a submissive I find all the guilt has been shed and I'm totally free to enjoy myself. It's a wonderful feeling. I hope you can get to that point too.

I will say though, in my other life I still occasionally wonder whether the 'nice girls don't do that' upbringing will bring me any regrets in the future. At the moment there are none.

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/24/2005 8:41:40 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I guess it stems from my "nice girls don't do that" upbringing


I bet you would be surprised what fetishes some of those "nice girls" are into. I'm sure most of my friends think i am a "nice girl". Just something to think about.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/24/2005 11:30:24 AM   
srahfox


Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		Saddly we often get brain washed into what we should be like, what we should do, as we grow up. I had to fight feeling guilty and wrong for wanting what I do. After all I was abused, forced to do things I shouldn't have been able to, and it feels as if all of the world says I should never want what I do now. Certainly what happened to me made me who I am, but to me that and what I want now are not the same. I've had people say stuff to me like.. well maybe it's because of what happened to you, get over that and you will be Okay. Um, I feel I'm okay now. It took me a while to accept that it was okay to like and want what I do. Fortunately I have a wonderful Master who worked me through my abuse and had been very supportive of me.
Just remember that for every want and desire you have there is likely someone else out there who wants to do that to you. Why would we have such perfect opposites it they weren't ment to fit together?
Don't worry about who the world thinks you should be, just be yourself. I have people now that tell me I should feel bad about being a housewife. Woman fought so I could work... bla bla. Well I don't want to, he doesn't want me to and as long as we can afford it I'm staying at home. I have friends who have never wanted children, and still don't. People tell them all the time they don't know what they want, that they are wrong. I'm glad they know they don't want them, I know other people who've had them because.. well that's what you do right? I still have to fight people about being Bi. I had to take my Best friend down because she kept making comments about it. I finally looked at her and said. "You know how it hurts when straight people don't accept you for being gay? Imagian if neither party wanted you." That shut her up.
It's natural to feel guilty, everyone does. But don't let it stop you, there are wonderful things out there for you, and if other people don't see that, how sad for them.

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/24/2005 6:45:50 PM   
Rayne58


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I made the mistake of doing what I thought I should do, and ended up being married for 23 years to a controlling insecure emotional abuser. Now I'm with my beloved Master I've never been happier and we are getting married in a few months.

He is my first Dom and I admit I did struggle with loving being called His slut and being spanked and dominated - it made me feel so alive and wonderful. After my first spanking I was so full of joy and yet doubt was there too, I remember asking Him "Am I weird?" because I enjoyed it so much. His reply? "You're discovering things about yourself that you didn't know, you're wired that way and no you're not weird, you're just YOU and I love you." Well that put all my doubts away and now I'm enjoying the sense of freedom and the ability to finally be ME after all these years!

(in reply to srahfox)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A Guilt Problem - 4/25/2005 5:51:22 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I'm thinking guilt isn't all bad -- as in the term "guilty pleasures". I believe a little guilt adds to the allure of whatever forbidden fruits I'm tasting and it makes being a beast and a pig more enjoyable. Of course, I don't feel guilty at all, though at times I think I should feel guilty.

But I know a gal who does feel guilty -- she'll say "I am not a slut" while we're doing something filthy or soon after we're done. I suspect other guys may believe her and treat her like a llittle princess, so she likes visiting me because I ignore her claims of virtue and instead try to see just how much of a whore she'll be, and it's usually more than I expect. She's embarrassed to talk about what we do, but admits to getting wet when I tell her what I want to do to her. I think that is just soooo cute!



< Message edited by happypervert -- 4/25/2005 5:53:15 PM >

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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