RE: The Big Lie! (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 5:17:14 AM)

Lucky i went through all the trouble to get those pictures for you and you do not even comment on the raging inferno that ensued in the wtc versus that tiny little cigarette smoke from the madrid building.  whats up with that?

since your memeory is always so incredibly short here are the links again.


Here is a raging inferno and the building collapses:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/flagsandtowers.jpg

Here is a tiny fire and the steel building somehow survives:
During:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/mad00000.jpg

After:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/madrid.jpg

Steel is mysterious stuff for sure.

Then there is a really interesting photo that i picked up along the way:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/911NUKED.jpg




luckydog1 -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 9:59:08 AM)

I see no reason to compare a massive high speed impact and fire, with a simple fire.  They are not the same thing.  Also the building in your pics that is still standing is aprox 15 stories tall.  The WTC was over 100.   Also the  Area on each floor was much greater in the WTC.  There was far more weight above the impact point of the WTC than in the entire building in the other you showed, and that makes a huge difference.  Nope, nothing really mysterious about steel at all, though it sure seems to confuse you.  You can compare apples to oranges all day long, it doesn't matter.




luckydog1 -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 10:08:47 AM)

Real a fire crew is an "it" singular.  Send in a crew of firemen.  Pull out the crew. 

Computer monitors do explode if you put them in a fire, and guess what they release radiation if you burn them.  So there are no books that contain industry standards?  Since when.

The building did pancake down, you have posted several videos showing it.  IF you say that means it was not a demolition, we are finally in agreement.







Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:03:25 PM)

Wrong I have posted plenty of pictures of the wtc being blown all to hell, being blown all to hell means it was demolished.   i have not posted one pic of anything on the wtc grounds that pancaked.  That is your dreamboat.

Idustry jargon is not put in a standards manual.

Yeh if you call a thud an explosion, and enough radiation that you can almost tell a difference from normal background radiation LOL

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Real a fire crew is an "it" singular.  Send in a crew of firemen.  Pull out the crew. 
   Lucky no fucking wonder we always get into defifuckinition wars, you cannot understand english, thanks for making my point.  

Yeh send in the it!  LMFAO  Try call them them an it sometime and when you get the "its" size 13 firmly implanted in your ass maybe you will wake up.

Oh thats right, I forgot, the bigger the building the less strength it needs to support it, so now i understand, thats why fire brings down bigger buildings they are required to build them so they cave in.

You aleady agreed in an earlier post that the crash did not bring it down or it would not have stood as long we it did so why are you bringing that into it again?  More obsfuscation?  YOu are now stuck with fire bringing it down as the only thing left for your case and i did not see any on wtc.

i saw plenty on madrid and it stood... oh thats right the smaller the building the more heavy duty they have to build them i forget.

so comparing 2 steel buildings are comparing apples to oranges?  lucky i dont even want to hear it but i am sure i will LOL

da wtc is bigger!  right?  fucking spare me.  Do you have any idea how tired this is getting?

you have yet to provide ANYTHING substantial and we both know you do not intend to provide ANYTHING substantial but but more of your same armchair buillshit. 

Why dont you shit or get off the pot?  Either bring something into this that can be chewed on or tell your armchair bullshit to yourself man, at least there will be one person who believes you.




Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:16:28 PM)

lucky i know how short  your memory is so here you go, once again here is just a sample of the hundreds of firemen and emergency workers etc that testified that there were

BOMBS


in the buildings that were going off blowing the hell out of people and the building but everyone is full of shit except bushie boys butt buddies hearst and chertoff right?

Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22] ... and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.

Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28] The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.

Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6] We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202] But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.

Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53] we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.

Frank Campagna -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11] You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down.

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8] ... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was.

Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) ... and then I heard an explosion from up, from up above, and I froze and I was like, oh, s___, I'm dead because I thought the debris was going to hit me in the head and that was it.
...
I look over my shoulder and I says, oh, s___, and then I turned around and looked up and that's when I saw the tower coming down.

Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander] .. there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.

Kevin Darnowski -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.

Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Division 8] It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion ...

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.) Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode.

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) ... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.) I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.
James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.) I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.

Thomas Fitzpatrick -- Deputy Commissioner for Administration (F.D.N.Y.) Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing it, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.
...
My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.

Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse. It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.

Kevin Gorman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22] ... I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes.

Gregg Hansson -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118] You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.

John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22] I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.

James McKinley -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) After that I heard this huge explosion, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we're running.

Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91] As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

Kevin Murray -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 18] When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.) I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.

Daniel Rivera -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) [Battalion 31] At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop"? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that.

Angel Rivera -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Everything shook.

Kennith Rogers -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.

Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.) I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above.

Mark Steffens -- Division Chief (E.M.S.) Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder ...

John Sudnik -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) Then we heard a loud explosion or what sounded like a loud explosion and looked up and I saw tower two start coming down. Crazy.

Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.) I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

David Timothy -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down.

Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.) And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.

Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) ... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.

Stephen Viola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) ... that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.

William Wall -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 47] At that time, we heard an explosion. We looked up and the building was coming down right on top of us ...

Amazing how many totally ignorant people there are that were actually on the sigfht while you sit in your armchair making beer bubble theories and calling them all
LIARS






Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:31:22 PM)

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.) - LIAR

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.) - LIAR

Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.) - LIAR

John Sudnik -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.) - LIAR

Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

William Wall -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) - LIAR

ignorant assed fire chiefs dont know shit.

luckydog honest joe truth!!!!


i guess the world will never appreciate how fortunate we are to have lucky as the voice of truth among hundreds of on site

LIARS




Kurzon -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:35:19 PM)

the fact you are ignoring is the construction of the WTC - it was revolutionary - instead of column supports in the interior ( like most buildings, including the one you linked a pic of) the entire weight of the building was supported by the outside walls leaving it unique in the fact that there are no supporting walls or columns - each floor could have been completely open except for the elevator shafts and stairwells. this is why it collapsed like it did - and the "explosions" heard were support steel breaking like bones as the heat( remember that the planes were "heavy"s - loaded with enough fuel to fly cross-country) weakened them




swtnsparkling -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:39:52 PM)

Kurzon
Don't waste your time on this.

The wacks are not going to change their mind




Kurzon -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:43:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

Kurzon
Don't waste your time on this.

The wacks are not going to change their mind

lol thanx - I know it is pointless but every so often when I see such  illogic abounding I must speak up so that I can look Myself in the eye each morning




Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:45:32 PM)

you didnt read the thread did you?   may want to watch the videos and turn the volume up really loud :)

here i snatched them up for ya :)

Bombs Were Planted In The Buildings! "The 911 Documentary you cannot debunk":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&mode=related&search=

The comment that the 70 year old lady makes is precious and she describes lucky quite accurately!   Go Granny GO!

WTC Bomb Montage PT.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ9-lZ4f71I
This archetect is dead now

WTC 1 Explosions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeZAN5wn-eA

Keep your eye on that building, it'll be coming down soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9CXQY-bZn4

Fireman:  "There is a bomb in the building"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpZdulv66n8

Big Boom and down it comes:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5182535448932065917&q=explosion%2Bwtc&hl=en






Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:53:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurzon
the entire weight of the building was supported by the outside walls


this part is totally incorrect.

The weight (vertical), of the building was supported by the 47 core uprights.

The outside is for lateral support or sideways support from gale force winds upwards of 120 mph.

It was not windy as you can see by the smoke on 911

The design was so good they used on several other high rises




Kurzon -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 12:57:44 PM)

I do not need to watch the videos - I saw enough of it on 9/11 - you need to read up on engineering, load displacement, metal stress, chemical engineering, hell for that matter you need to brush up on basic logic 

Do I trust the Government? NO!! do I think the lie to the People daily? YES!! but logic says that if there were bombs in the buildings, or nuke used - the government would publicly announce it ( even if they themselves set them) if only to add more fuel to the fire  of public opinion.




Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:00:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurzon
but logic says that if there were bombs in the buildings, or nuke used - the government would publicly announce it ( even if they themselves set them) if only to add more fuel to the fire  of public opinion.


you just disqualified yourself with this one sorry.




Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:06:27 PM)

just to be clear i dont mean to say that the core held up all the weight as they both did of course.   The fucntion of the core however was to provide primarily for the vertical load and the yes the exoskeleton was load bearing but somewhere in my mounds of archives on the subject i have the designers stating that you could remove one whole side of the building and it would still stand, that and they also said it should have been capable of withstanding serveral jet liners crashing into it.  it was designed for a 707 and a 767 is just a wee bit bigger but not much.



Oh and just a little side note:  robertson was worried they were going to lose the shanghia account, that is the scy scraper they are building for them.  There has been no change in plams or the way the building will be designed and the design is modelled after the wtc design.  for what ever that is worth.




Kurzon -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:17:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

just to be clear i dont mean to say that the core held up all the weight as they both did of course.   The fucntion of the core however was to provide primarily for the vertical load and the yes the exoskeleton was load bearing but somewhere in my mounds of archives on the subject i have the designers stating that you could remove one whole side of the building and it would still stand, that and they also said it should have been capable of withstanding serveral jet liners crashing into it.  it was designed for a 707 and a 767 is just a wee bit bigger but not much.


yes but they did not account for the fuel that would be in a "heavy" the numbers they ran were for a jet on landing approach with almost no fuel




swtnsparkling -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:19:39 PM)

You know I never liked tennis before lol




Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:30:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurzon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

just to be clear i dont mean to say that the core held up all the weight as they both did of course.   The fucntion of the core however was to provide primarily for the vertical load and the yes the exoskeleton was load bearing but somewhere in my mounds of archives on the subject i have the designers stating that you could remove one whole side of the building and it would still stand, that and they also said it should have been capable of withstanding serveral jet liners crashing into it.  it was designed for a 707 and a 767 is just a wee bit bigger but not much.


yes but they did not account for the fuel that would be in a "heavy" the numbers they ran were for a jet on landing approach with almost no fuel



Possibly the easiest one stop source for info on the builings is here

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

Towers' Design Parameters Twin Towers'

Designers Anticipated Jet Impacts Like September 11th's
Structural engineers who designed the Twin Towers carried out studies in the mid-1960s to determine how the buildings would fare if hit by large jetliners. In all cases the studies concluded that the Towers would survive the impacts and fires caused by the jetliners. Evidence of these studies includes interviews with and papers and press releases issued by engineers who designed and oversaw construction of the World Trade Center.


finding the original guys quotes are a little more difficult but if you take a little time its out here




Kurzon -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:33:10 PM)

I have read reports and seen interviews with the builders - and in them they all state that they did not think a fully fueled plane would ever be an issue so never crunched those numbers




Real0ne -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:46:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kurzon

I have read reports and seen interviews with the builders - and in them they all state that they did not think a fully fueled plane would ever be an issue so never crunched those numbers


you still have the problem of all those bombs that went off hey?  I mean we can argue the fires all day long, there for all intents and purpurposes were none.   If the planes would have knocked it down they would have done it in minutes not hours after the impact.

frankly this is the same old ground, how anyone can think that fires or the crash brought them down in light of all the bombs is beyond me.


I could understand your position BEFORE the release of all the bomb testimony in 2005 through the FOIA, but to argue fires and crashes at this point is pretty moot imo in light of the evidence to the contrary.




swtnsparkling -> RE: The Big Lie! (5/12/2007 1:49:24 PM)

Kurzon

You got Mail




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